 Poster: A snowHead
|
| JonA wrote: |
Does anyone know how far out from the alps the cold weather diesel is at the fuel stations?
|
I've never seen the labels like the picture, including at my normal fill-up in Châtel, which I'm positive must have the cold-weather diesel, so it's not going to be possible to know from simply using the stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I think that it's date rather than location driven.
Looking in Wikipedia winter diesel in France must be good to at least -15 from 1 November to 30 April and there is no mention of area. Saying that, if I thought that a colder snap was coming I'd take action (buy additive). NB - if using additive, it must be put in the tank before filling up and the fuel being added ought to come from an underground tank so that it's not too cold - this helps the additive mix with the original fuel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Layne, yes, you're correct. France is the same but Germany and Switzerland are -20c.
This is an interesting and positive quote from Wikipedia though: "Tests in the Alpine regions have shown that the diesel fuel offered at gas stations extends the law requirements by some degrees, showing a CFPP of −27 °C in all samples."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Thanks for that info on diesel. That probably explains why we had no issues, although the first couple of nights (reportedly) dropped to -22, the rest of the week was a little milder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
It was pointed out much earlier in the thread that relatively-modern diesels, with common-rail injection, are much less prone to issues due to the high pressure in the injection circuit. I'd be interested to know if anyone has ever experienced any problems?
I've only had a diesel vehicle, TD5 Defender, for five years, which is outside all the time at 1300m, and has definitely been subject to extreme cold temperatures without ever having starting or running issues. As I said before, it mainly gets filled up at the Châtel Intermarché, so in all likelihood usually has the cold-weather version, only very occasionally in winter fuelling up in Alsace where it's quite possible the fuel is not treated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
As I said before, it mainly gets filled up at the Châtel Intermarché, so in all likelihood usually has the cold-weather version, only very occasionally in winter fuelling up in Alsace where it's quite possible the fuel is not treated.
|
Alsace is in France so will have exactly the same antiwaxing properties as elsewhere in France. (I know that Châtel will have Swiss fuel). A good description of the requirements can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel. One signficant point in this article is that you should use an extra additive if the vehicle has been filled with summer diesel eg before November 1st and not used until cold weather arrives.
| Quote: |
| If the gas station offers winterized diesel you should not add additional additives — the fluid characteristics may deteriorate due to incompatible additives and the CFPP enhancement may be reversed.[4] |
AFAIAA the only problem that could realistically happen in Europe is hiring a diesel car in Venice and driving to the Alps or Dolomites. The CFPP may only be -10.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quick reminder to lift the windscreen wipers off the screen if its going to snow or freeze overnight. I forgot, got into the car to turn on defrost etc before clearing the screen. Turned on ignition, windscreen wipers left on auto started wiping there icy edges across the screen ... 
Got to the garage today ....
£ 50.00 for two new wiper blades! Only consolation was the guy fitting new ones said look the wear indicator says they need replacing anyway!
(Also don't forget to treat door seals with silicon or ptfe spray before you go - both rear doors were iced shut. De ice spray sorted them)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Reading this thread makes me understand how/why/what the rest of Canada thinks about us in Vancouver! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
As I said before, it mainly gets filled up at the Châtel Intermarché, so in all likelihood usually has the cold-weather version, only very occasionally in winter fuelling up in Alsace where it's quite possible the fuel is not treated.
|
Alsace is in France so will have exactly the same antiwaxing properties as elsewhere in France. (I know that Châtel will have Swiss fuel). |
Are you suggesting that the whole of France has the same cold-proof diesel fuel? I thought from ealrier discussions, and indeed from the question just a few posts up, that it was only in certain areas?
As for Châtel, I suggest you look at a map. It may be close to the Swiss border but no way do they get their fuel from there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Chaletbeauroc, I'm interested in this as well. How do you know if it's proper winter diesel they are selling ? We are driving down next week, and want to make sure will fill the tank at the right moment
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@eblunt, ....I have driven inthe Alps for many decades, and in the last twenty years have driven diesels to and fro UK and the Alps with never a probelm and in very deep temps. But there are rules.
The Rules
Buy as close to the Alps as possible - so fill up in UK then drive, then fill up at Besancon etc
Only use premium suppliers - Shell and BP in particular. They do not 'spot buy' and have their own refineries.
Do not buy at tiny one-pump stations - these are all over France still - who knows how big their tank is, and in Dec if its winter diesel.
I know that many use the Intermarche stations and they indeed do have large turnover, but I have been told (that's a weasel phrase but I have been warned by commerical drivers) that there have been instances of the wrong diesel being bought on the spot market.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| eblunt wrote: |
| @Chaletbeauroc, I'm interested in this as well. How do you know if it's proper winter diesel they are selling ? We are driving down next week, and want to make sure will fill the tank at the right moment |
I have done numerous trips to Chatel in winter and normally fill up on autoroute near Jura and also at Intermarche Chatel and never given thought to what type of diesel I am using. I trust its all good and never had an issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Are you suggesting that the whole of France has the same cold-proof diesel fuel?
|
It does, As does England. This is not a problem
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@johnE, Yip, I think a lot of folks ought to read this to dispel some urban myths:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel
Basically the UK and France are the same, the standard is mandated, differing brands of fuel do not vary in regards to the temperature requirements (ie -15) despite the marketing hype. Up here in the Tarentaise the only Class F I have found is at LeClerc in Aime (and maybe the very expensive Tignes 1800 garage), the rest of Bourg and Moutiers is Class E. @timlongs and I were discussing this today and its the only one he has seen and he delivers beer all over the Savoie!
So unless you can find a Class F station you might as well fill up in Dover as anywhere closer to the Alps
Edit Sorry @johnE I see you have provided that link a bit further up
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Thanks for the info. I guess then at -5C and parked outside I shouldn’t have a problem. I fact my main problem is getting hold of any next week as result of the strike !
One last question - If the diesel does get very cold and waxes, is it only a problem if you try and use the car at that moment? I.E if you you use it a week later when it has warmed up again do the crystals melt again?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| eblunt wrote: |
Thanks for the info. I guess then at -5C and parked outside I shouldn’t have a problem. I fact my main problem is getting hold of any next week as result of the strike !
One last question - If the diesel does get very cold and waxes, is it only a problem if you try and use the car at that moment? I.E if you you use it a week later when it has warmed up again do the crystals melt again? |
Yes, once temperature rises (of the fuel) it will behave normally. Handbook advice may just to leave it in the sun, or put it inside a garage to warm, then carry on.
It will often specify the minimum operating temperature too. If it doesn't start when you try it you can try cycling the glow plug heat cycle multiple times, then crank it, as often they'll pick up just from that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@chocksaway, During the very cold snap in January we filled up at LeClerc in Aime. It's my default fuel stop on the way up to Tignes, and gives me one more chance to fill up at Super U in Bourg st M. if there any problems at Aime.
There was a large sign on the Derv pump.. " Gazole Grand Froid. -20c"
It was Baltic for a couple of weeks afterwards. I think @Chocksaway spotted a few dead diesels on his way down to Bourg during that very cold spell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
