Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen. They then when the negative consequences of their choice became apparent choose to break the law and flee. They are all mindless stupid covidiots and I hope Switzerland throws the book at them.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I have no skin in the game. And I understand the virus is a serious issue. But I just can't find any logic justifying what Switzerland did.
Because it's a difference in approach. Switzerland didn't say "yo, here's our bars and party time", they said to be sensible and ski, which like most outdoor activities has less chance to give covid than going on a busy bus in Paris with 20 nose-maskers.
And the sudden shift in decision has something to do with the different strain of COVID which spreads faster.
The problem is that common sense doesn't work with a lot of people - I don't know why people need to be sold to things like: masks, testing, distancing, seriousness. My frustration with this year is that there is a binary approach: either throw all care in the wind or be the most paranoid person and lock up.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen. They then when the negative consequences of their choice became apparent choose to break the law and flee. They are all mindless stupid covidiots and I hope Switzerland throws the book at them.
Nope.
They didn't "go against official advice," they followed the official advice of the Swiss Government and went against the official advice of the UK Government.
The negative consequences didn't "become clear" with time, there was a new rule put in place with retroactive effect. When these travellers arrived in Switzerland the rule did not exist.
They didn't "break the law and flee," many of them probably followed the law and left in a legal way. A few probably fled illegally in the middle of the night in that brief window from 21-24 Dec, until the Swiss realized that their rule was badly formed and allowed everyone to leave legally on 24 Dec.
But sure, have a mindless and insulting rant if it makes you feel better.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jabuzzard wrote:
abc wrote:
Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen.
But then the UK government advise Brits to head back home AFTER the quarantine requirement imposed by Switzerland!
They did exactly as told by their own government. And by the Swiss government too. Two different sets of rules, both self-contradictory.
Even before the Swiss quarantine fiasco most of the 10,000 who apparently travelled there are either ignorant, selfish, irresponsible or all three; and now possibly criminal if the authorities follow up.
People will probably die as a consequence.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
diaphon wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
abc wrote:
Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen. They then when the negative consequences of their choice became apparent choose to break the law and flee. They are all mindless stupid covidiots and I hope Switzerland throws the book at them.
Nope.
They didn't "go against official advice," they followed the official advice of the Swiss Government and went against the official advice of the UK Government.
I quite like the idea of being able to pick another country's advice if I don't agree with my own country's government advice, gives me all sort of options
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 28-12-20 21:32; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
jabuzzard wrote:
abc wrote:
Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen. They then when the negative consequences of their choice became apparent choose to break the law and flee. They are all mindless stupid covidiots and I hope Switzerland throws the book at them.
Yep!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
diaphon wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
abc wrote:
Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?
Because they choose to go against official advice to travel for a none essential purpose, which had the warning that things like that might happen. They then when the negative consequences of their choice became apparent choose to break the law and flee. They are all mindless stupid covidiots and I hope Switzerland throws the book at them.
Nope.
They didn't "go against official advice," they followed the official advice of the Swiss Government and went against the official advice of the UK Government.
The negative consequences didn't "become clear" with time, there was a new rule put in place with retroactive effect. When these travellers arrived in Switzerland the rule did not exist.
They didn't "break the law and flee," many of them probably followed the law and left in a legal way. A few probably fled illegally in the middle of the night in that brief window from 21-24 Dec, until the Swiss realized that their rule was badly formed and allowed everyone to leave legally on 24 Dec.
But sure, have a mindless and insulting rant if it makes you feel better.
They where resident in the UK and went against the advice of their own government where they where resident, not to travel abroad except for essential purposes. The advice said if you do travel that you should follow local rules that may change at very short notice. Retrospective quarantine was certainly a real possibility.
They then decided to break local laws (at this point UK government advice is irrelevant) and break quarantine to return home because the selfish morons they are did not want to follow through on the consequences of the risks they took.
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jabuzzard wrote:
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war.
I am a bit surprised that this sort of language and attitude seem to be so common on Snowheads.
Simply put, not everyone agrees with you. I'm sorry you find that so difficult to deal with.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
BoardieK wrote:
Even before the Swiss quarantine fiasco most of the 10,000 who apparently travelled there are either ignorant, selfish, irresponsible or all three; and now possibly criminal if the authorities follow up.
People will probably die as a consequence.
Selfish and irresponsible… Sounds like you are describing the actions of the Swiss government. Unfortunately ignorance does not apply to the Swiss, they knew better and decided to lure tourists nevertheless... they are incapable of turning down a CHF even if it means risking lives.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 28-12-20 22:04; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
diaphon wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war.
Simply put, not everyone agrees with me. I'm sorry I find that so difficult to deal with.
FIFY
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So many halo wearers on this forum
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just in case there are people reading this who are interested in first hand experiences rather than armchair moralizing, Warren Smith has just out up a little commentary on the situation in Verbier:
@diaphon, not quite sure what Warren Smith has or hasn't seen, or how the lifts are being run, have got to do with anything. He has no idea, you have no idea, I have no idea how many people were put into quarantine and then flouted it. Presumably the Swiss authorities do know - one really can't stay anywhere in Switzerland without officialdom knowing about it.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I watched last week a little open mouthed as people congratulated someone driving out of a tier 4 area (since his flights would be cancelled because tier 4 and all that) and getting to Switzerland quick. And of course, much safer than going to the supermarket here yadah yadah ( completely ignoring the fact about not taking anything with you and who cares about those who live there so long as you get your day in the snow). And am still perplexed about how for some people the biggest thing is how they can bend the rules and prove it is essential that they get some skiing and the rules for the rest of the eu don’t count. Personally, do what you do. If you live there, enjoy, it may be the best and quietest you ever get it, but for the rest. Seriously. A ski holiday is a luxury. That can be missed for now amid every other thing we’re missing. It simply is. We all love snow. We will get to see it again, hopefully even this season at some point (without pretending it is an essential in the face of other restrictions)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Skiing isn’t essential travel. Blame Switzerland all you like for being the last to close in a roulette of ever changing circumstance, it doesn’t wash.
No one from the UK that took a gamble on skiing in Switzerland at Christmas can pretend they weren’t pushing the envelope. It wasn’t like every other country was closed to us or anything.
It really is no surprise that the majority of those that took a punt also did a midnight flit when it went pear shaped.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
jabuzzard wrote:
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war .
And maybe thats the point - this isn't really a deadly pandemic to 99.2% of people who contract it - myself included who seemingly had the virus with zero symptoms. Perhaps the strategy has been all wrong, properly shielding the most vulnerable rather than (attempting) interning the entire population may have been more effective.
Skiing isn’t essential travel. Blame Switzerland all you like for being the last to close in a roulette of ever changing circumstance, it doesn’t wash.
No one from the UK that took a gamble on skiing in Switzerland at Christmas can pretend they weren’t pushing the envelope. It wasn’t like every other country was closed to us or anything.
It really is no surprise that the majority of those that took a punt also did a midnight flit when it went pear shaped.
So what? Ppl take risks all the time going against FCDO travel advice, whether its cheap package holidays in North Africa against JTAC advice or going skiing at xmas. There seems to have been an inordinate amount of bed-wetting over the Verbier (non) story - which frankly is a long-drive, quick flight or train ride to get home. Ppl should be FOIing how much the FCO spent on repatriations this year for fcukwit travellers even when the dangers were well known, and even when evacuation flights were laid on but not taken first time around....
ETA: the FCDO travel advice is merely a guide based on several factors, is escalatory and ordinarily acts as a trigger for folks leave a region if required; the most significant impact to most individuals is invalidation of most (standard) travel insurance.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jebroni3_16 wrote:
Extremophile wrote:
I want to know what happened to the Snowhead who was proudly touting his great escape from Londons tier 4 imposition on the Saturday night by saying he was heading to Switzerland to go skiing. I can't seem to find his post anymore.
HilbertSpace's posts are still there on Pages 2, 3 and 4 of this thread.
Extremophile wrote:
Skimum1 wrote:
Didn’t he post again and they left Switzerland in very short order and made it back ok?
Well, I just hope they are isolating for the appropriate amount of days, a high price for a few days skiing
I did ask that question but he hasn't replied.
As far as I could tell, him and his son would be required to self-isolate for ten days (although the other members of his family who did not travel would not be required to do so), unless they took COVID tests to confirm they aren't currently infected, and then that period could be cut short apparently.
That's enough to put me off trying to squeeze in a short trip for now, even if I could travel anywhere.
Ahh... my mistake, I thought he wrote his own thread. But even if he commented on another thread I couldn't remember which thread I saw it in... haha!
Lets hope he does self isolate, I mean... I can't really believe people thought the Swiss wouldn't chage the Covid rules when they realised so many Brits were travelling to go skiing.
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war .
And maybe thats the point - this isn't really a deadly pandemic to 99.2% of people who contract it - myself included who seemingly had the virus with zero symptoms. Perhaps the strategy has been all wrong, properly shielding the most vulnerable rather than (attempting) interning the entire population may have been more effective.
Where do you get your 99.2% from? Currently 39,036 new cases per day and 2,143 hospital admissions per day is 5.5%, but probably higher due to the time lag between getting infected and being admitted to hospital.
if you are young and invulnerable the purposes of the restrictions are not so much to protect you but to stop you possibly spreading the virus to the more vulnerable, including those in other countries!
I'm in my early 60s so in the vulnerable category and as well as being a (would be) skier I'm a fit and active rock climber, sea kayaker and cyclist (where and when allowed by restrictions) as well as being a busy professional engineer.
I think you're advocating a strategy that would shut down my life and that of similar people both in the UK and ski resort countries in order for you to have your skiing holiday?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 29-12-20 10:04; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@On the rocks, I have wondered if we should have just locked down all the elderly and vulnerable from the start (I`m in the same age category as you and survived Cv19) Obviously not just so that younger folk could have their ski holidays but because it may have done less economic harm and we would be that much closer to herd immunity. It would not have been politically acceptable however and a vaguely similar approach by Sweden does not seem to have worked.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@CaravanSkier, they sort of tried that with the November lockdown. By keeping schools open but shutting everything else. The young seemed to have continued spreading covid often asymptomatic. Once everything opened up again the rate amidst those that do show symptoms shot up...
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@pieman666, I don`t think it would have been an easy solution, and not necessarily a better solution, and irrelevant now anyway. Except that by looking at how situations have been dealt with may help us to 'do better' if/when there is a next time?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Dravot, ahhh. Other people are are doing it so why can’t we.
Cummings has a lot to answer for.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
On the rocks wrote:
Dravot wrote:
jabuzzard wrote:
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war .
And maybe thats the point - this isn't really a deadly pandemic to 99.2% of people who contract it - myself included who seemingly had the virus with zero symptoms. Perhaps the strategy has been all wrong, properly shielding the most vulnerable rather than (attempting) interning the entire population may have been more effective.
Where do you get your 99.2% from? Currently 39,036 new cases per day and 2,143 hospital admissions per day is 5.5%, but probably higher due to the time lag between getting infected and being admitted to hospital.
if you are young and invulnerable the purposes of the restrictions are not so much to protect you but to stop you possibly spreading the virus to the more vulnerable, including those in other countries!
I'm in my early 60s so in the vulnerable category and as well as being a (would be) skier I'm a fit and active rock climber, sea kayaker and cyclist (where and when allowed by restrictions) as well as being a busy professional engineer.
I think you're advocating a strategy that would shut down my life and that of similar people both in the UK and ski resort countries in order for you to have your skiing holiday?
The reality is nobody can be certain of the fatality rates because of two factors, firstly, we have no idea how many ppl have actually contracted Covid (I had no idea that I'd been infected until I did an antibody test, neither did two of my neighbours) and secondly, the manner in which Covid related deaths are being recorded. There are reports that suggest that the 'fatality rate' is between 0.01% and 1.5%. Either way, the the pandemic isn't 'deadly' to the overwhelming majority, in the same way as say ebola is. On your last point, there is a reverse paradigm, the whole country, Europe and beyond have been shut down to protect a tiny minority (who rightly should be protected) - with marginal benefit.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
dode wrote:
@Dravot, ahhh. Other people are are doing it so why can’t we.
Cummings has a lot to answer for.
I think rather people are questioning punitive measures being imposed on them for a condition that is very unlikely to affect them. Margaret Ferrier MP is a better example - she knowingly traveled whilst infected, including on public transport, yet no charges were brought.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Everyone keeps missing the points
1. It is impossible to completely shield all over 60s. Let alone fact that many leading doctors, police, council workers etc are over 60, but over 60s also have to buy food, go to doctor, have plumber in their house to fix leak, be cared for..
2. When enough people are admitted to hospital with covid then cancer surgeries, diagnostic scans etc for people under 60 will be delayed or cancelled due to inadequate capacity and avoidable deaths will occur
So there really is no choice but do what governments have been doing, and hopefully will only last another 6 months if vaccines work
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@peanuthead, +1. Except that in many parts of the country it isn't "... will be..." but "...are being ..." delayed.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
peanuthead wrote:
Everyone keeps missing the points
1. It is impossible to completely shield all over 60s. Let alone fact that many leading doctors, police, council workers etc are over 60, but over 60s also have to buy food, go to doctor, have plumber in their house to fix leak, be cared for..
2. When enough people are admitted to hospital with covid then cancer surgeries, diagnostic scans etc for people under 60 will be delayed or cancelled due to inadequate capacity and avoidable deaths will occur
So there really is no choice but do what governments have been doing, and hopefully will only last another 6 months if vaccines work
It's considerably more possible to shield, protect and fund the most vulnerable than it is to try to lockdown 67m+ people.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Failed for Christmas, but made it for New Year.
After a well wearing trip, now sat in Lauterbrunnen apartment looking towards Wengen.
Completely knackered yesterday after 8 days of nervous energy and pretty sleepless nights trying to make it all work. Didn't think I'd be able to stay awake at wheel!!
Initially CH customs at Basel were grumpy thinking we were mad having 10 days quarantine for a short trip. Pointed out 3 months and they then decided to search all our food - a full phyto-sanitary check and a foretaste of post BREXIT. And of course possible contamination from their grubby hands!!
But probably realised if it was confiscated, we'd have to break Q to go shopping!! Lovely to be back in the mountains.
Chum got a day remission from Q after a negative test, we might get 3 days as in France, a low risk? country, before here and that may count to quarantine.
Actually glad to be in Q - gives a few days to sort ourselves out and wait for the holiday crowds to leave.
As an aside, the FR No2 in the FR customs booth at Dover gave a nod of approval of Mrs S sanitising the passports on handing back.
No doubt the hypocrites will be furiously scribbling now - those same hypocrites who exceed speed limits. Especially the motorbikers, I've never seen one not break a limit. In a 30 mph zone I deliberately drive at 30 and they still have to flash past!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 30-12-20 13:01; edited 2 times in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@colinstone, welcome!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@telford_mike, We must meet up, at a social distance of course.
1. It is impossible to completely shield all over 60s. Let alone fact that many leading doctors, police, council workers etc are over 60, but over 60s also have to buy food, go to doctor, have plumber in their house to fix leak, be cared for..
2. When enough people are admitted to hospital with covid then cancer surgeries, diagnostic scans etc for people under 60 will be delayed or cancelled due to inadequate capacity and avoidable deaths will occur
So there really is no choice but do what governments have been doing, and hopefully will only last another 6 months if vaccines work
It's considerably more possible to shield, protect and fund the most vulnerable than it is to try to lockdown 67m+ people.
No, it isn't. You really need to listen to what the scientists and medical services are saying. Which is that the 15 million or so people in the UK designated as covid-vulnerable simply can't be isolated in any meaningful way from the rest and the consequences of their being infected can't be stopped from seriously degrading the routine medical services needed for everyone else. Separation is a nice concept. But it's just that, a concept. A wish. Not a reality.
This is a similar misconception to that voiced by the PM - that we'll one day "beat" and "see the back of" COVID. We never will. Like AIDS or conventional 'flu, it's something we're going to be living with for the foreseeable future. Which is no reason to be downhearted: we do live with SARS, Ebola, conventional 'flu and so on. But we need to be realistic. Until vaccination is more extensive, we have only one, very conventional tool with which to minimise the impact of COVID: and that's social distancing and isolation - and the more widely you apply it, the more effective it is. The less widely you apply it, the less effective it is.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 30-12-20 13:01; edited 5 times in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
colinstone wrote:
No doubt the hypocrites will be furiously scribbling now - those same hypocrites who exceed speed limits. Especially the motorbikers, I've never seen one not break a limit. In a 30 mph zone I deliberately drive at 31 and they still have to flash past!!
What a very odd thing to say. The gentleman doth protest too much methinks
@holidayloverxx, What a very odd thing to say. The gentleman doth protest too much methinks
Oh yes?? Well, given the amount of flak being dished out in this and on other topics, like this:
"jabuzzard wrote:
We all want to go skiing, that's not an excuse for being being a selfish prick. God forbid we had a really deadly pandemic or an actual hot war.
I am a bit surprised that this sort of language and attitude seem to be so common on Snowheads.
Simply put, not everyone agrees with you. I'm sorry you find that so difficult to deal with."
Thought I'd point out the hypocrisy first!! Best form of defence is attack!!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@colinstone, So you admit to speeding and then have a go at speeders....
After all it is free
After all it is free
MorningGory wrote:
@colinstone, So you admit to speeding and then have a go at speeders....
Finger slipped on keyboard, Officer.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
colinstone wrote:
Failed for Christmas, but made it for New Year.
Pointed out 3 months and they then decided to search all our food - a full phyto-sanitary check and a foretaste of post brexit
No doubt the hypocrites will be furiously scribbling now - those same hypocrites who exceed speed limits. Especially the motorbikers, I've never seen one not break a limit. In a 30 mph zone I deliberately drive at 31 and they still have to flash past!!
I admit I had not realised that Switzerland was in the EU, but also admit to sharing your desire not to allow facts to get in the way of a good remainer moan!
interesting divert ref speeders, especially bikers, as a sor to fjustification for what you know deep down is questioanble behaviour
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
>interesting divert ref speeders, especially bikers, as a sor to fjustification for what you know deep down is questioanble behaviour..
No, just making the point that this is deemed questionable and the hypocrisy from those who break speed limits thinking it is OK.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
