@NickYoung, if you dont have enough of an increase in your income this year, than you did last year then you won’t pay more tax as you won’t move bands, there will be plenty of people who will though and therefore will move into new bands and therefore pay more tax so the tax take will increase.
I think on this thread people are talking generally not specifically about an individuals situation, something for you to bear in mind
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 6-03-21 11:35; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If only there was a way we could give the NHS an extra £350mill per week???
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Boris wrote:
@Steilhang, to be pedantic, this season, may be possible to ski this year in December
To be equally as pedantic, it has happened for some Brits, they've been able to get to Europe and ski this season (Verbier anyone?)
I may go in April for a Basi course as classed as educational etc
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
NickyJ wrote:
rungsp wrote:
One thing is for sure...the 1% for NHS is 100% bad politics.
Very badly misjudged on so many levels.
I couldn’t help thinking this may be a negotiating position.
So imagine if the government manage to double that to 2%. Wow how generous it looks they are doubling the offer.
Yet if they started with 2% the reaction by NHS and public would be pretty similar....
Hmm just saw this
Quote:
Posted at 11:0511:05
Government defends proposed 1% NHS pay rise for staff
The government has responded to comments from NHS Providers - the organisation representing NHS trusts in England, which argues ministers had already set out funding for a five year period that assumed a 2.1% pay rise in 2021/22.
Pay up 5%...do the right thing.....and be seen to do the right thing politically...except that opportunity is now very tainted with the perception of another Rashford moment.
Honestly...these people are supposedly professional politicians, they never fail to act like total amateurs.
Surely this begs the question of whether we want politicians to do the populist thing or to do what they believe is the right thing?
On the basis of the economy, public debt, pay rises elsewhere in the public sector, pay rises/drops in the private sector, job security etc. then surely a pay rise of 1% is, dare I say it, pretty fair. The argument seems to be that the NHS deserve a bigger pay rise because of the efforts they have put in over the last year. However, if we want to reward that then a pay rise is the wrong mechanism. A bonus would be far more sensible as that would not distort comparisons with other public sector/ private sector workers and, even more importantly, wouldn’t be something that is forever locked in to future discussions. Just because the NHS might deserve to be paid more this year doesn’t mean they deserve to be paid more next year or in 2035, or whenever.
If we need to increase NHS pay for other reasons, e.g. attract more staff, then that’s a very different argument.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rungsp wrote:
2% is still misjudged
12.5% is equally so.
Pay up 5%...do the right thing.....and be seen to do the right thing politically...except that opportunity is now very tainted with the perception of another Rashford moment.
Honestly...these people are supposedly professional politicians, they never fail to act like total amateurs.
Surely this begs the question of whether we want politicians to do the populist thing or to do what they believe is the right thing?
On the basis of the economy, public debt, pay rises elsewhere in the public sector, pay rises/drops in the private sector, job security etc. then surely a pay rise of 1% is, dare I say it, pretty fair. The argument seems to be that the NHS deserve a bigger pay rise because of the efforts they have put in over the last year. However, if we want to reward that then a pay rise is the wrong mechanism. A bonus would be far more sensible as that would not distort comparisons with other public sector/ private sector workers and, even more importantly, wouldn’t be something that is forever locked in to future discussions. Just because the NHS might deserve to be paid more this year doesn’t mean they deserve to be paid more next year or in 2035, or whenever.
If we need to increase NHS pay for other reasons, e.g. attract more staff, then that’s a very different argument.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@foxtrotzulu, very well expressed. I have been trying to get the wording you have used straight but you have summed it up well, bonus now to recognise all the hard work, but not to be tied in to future discussions. I have no idea what the bonus should be, but something worthwhile and not insulting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Personally I would have been much more sympathetic to the 1% rise (the point being that it is a reduction of what was previously agreed) if there was benefit elsewhere. It would have been palatable to me if the government had acknowledged that the pressures on NHS workers during Covid has been substantially due to the fact that there weren't enough nurses in the first case, and that hospital inpatient and in particular intensive care capacity had been pared beyond the bone - and said that ahead of their pay the priority would be training more nurses, for example restoring the training bursary, and making money available to trusts to recruit other staff needed for capacity.
I would have still been disappointed if longer term NHS salaries dropped back compared with others, but right now it is difficult to know what will happen to salaries generally.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Holy thread drift....
A little more on topic.
This weekend, i should've been boarding in Flaine with a few committed buddies... Instead, we've rebooked, and our party of 4 has swelled to 10 as a friends have realised during the pandemic that getting out there and doing stuff is what really matters in life.
My family trip to Les Arcs at Easter has finally hit the buffers, and Pierre et Vacances have offered cancellation and a replacement voucher with 15% increase in value to use at another time. (refund was also available) Soon as we can, we'll be booking for 2022.
I am now looking forward to the Snowcentre opening as my best chance of some 'snow' underneath my board in 2021.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Back off topic...
Government suggested in December 2019 that they aimed to increase nursing numbers by 50,000 by 2024-2025. Shortfall has been estimated at anything up to 100,000. That's possibly 100,000 lots of salary they're not having to pay, along with employer's NI and pension contributions. Very rough calculation, maybe 5 billion a year. A £1000 (£2000, £3000) bonus to all NHS workers would still leave them with plenty of change out of this, and that's just one year. Tight b***ards.
Back on topic...
I wrote this year off back in October, when I would have needed to book my high season weeks with P & V for apartment in Arc 1950 along with rolling 10-week limit for mid/low season. First winter since I started in 1988 that I haven't been to the mountains. However, other things are far more important. Hoping for next year, but will gladly forego it if circumstances dictate. The mountains will always be there even if we can't make it to them for a year or two.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@195062,
Quote:
Government suggested in December 2019 that they aimed to increase nursing numbers by 50,000 by 2024-2025. Shortfall has been estimated at anything up to 100,000. That's possibly 100,000 lots of salary they're not having to pay, along with employer's NI and pension contributions. Very rough calculation, maybe 5 billion a year. A £1000 (£2000, £3000) bonus to all NHS workers would still leave them with plenty of change out of this, and that's just one year. Tight b***ards.
Well, it doesn’t quite work like that. For a start they have probably spent a great deal of the salaries ‘saved’ on overtime, agency nurses or outsourcing the work to the private sector. Second, any money ‘saved’ will have been spent many times over on the Covid pandemic.
I agree with you that any ‘thank you’ should be in the form of a bonus rather than a pay rise, but it still raises difficult questions when it comes to other public sector workers. Although it’s difficult to compare like with like, I wonder how the armed forces might feel about bonus/ pay rises for the NHS. The armed forces don’t get overtime. AFAIK they don’t get bonuses when they fight a good war, and I doubt they get pay rises based upon campaigns fought. There are some minor allowances but not much.
My point is simply that any ‘thank you’ given to the NHS needs to be done very, very carefully to avoid creating anomalies and that we really can’t afford to be too generous at this stage.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
My wife is a nurse who manages a clinical trial unit in a regional hospital. They converted to 100% COVID trials and has been in COVID front line for the past year.
They are exhausted, both mentally and physically. She has seen over 400 of her patients die from COVID - essentially asphyxiated over many days. 9 of her colleagues have also died from it - 2 this week. At the peaks, we shipped our teenage kids out the house from fear of bringing it back and giving it to them (My sister badly hit by COVID, concerned there is a family element). She is a really strong woman, but during the worst times she was scared to go into her workplace every day (crying). Large numbers of her staff are now having counselling. Much like soldiers in WWII, she wont talk about the worst of what she has seen.
I believe soldiers sign up knowing they will fight wars and see such horrors. Nurses don't - not on that scale.
You know that Scotland gave a £500 COVID thank you bonus - generated a huge amount of goodwill.
What they have want is to be appreciated and recognised for what they have done in the past year. Perhaps a heartfelt thanks, and perhaps a small cash extra bonus.
What they get is smarmy public schoolboy ladies' front bottoms playing politics with them. Whatever they do now will be tainted. Yet another failure of management chalked up to this government.
Take a look at this address - we are firmly in the republican camp, but this is what thanks looks like
@ringingmaster, Nurses and doctors have had it incredibly tough and have done an amazing job. However, I'd argue that they do know, or certainly should, that they may well have to cope with situations like this.
Quote:
Perhaps a heartfelt thanks, and perhaps a small cash extra bonus.
OK, so they are getting a pay rise instead of the 'small cash extra bonus'. We both seem to agree that a bonus would have been a far better way of handling it as it doesn't create problems for the future
I'm not arguing against a bonus of some sort and NHS staff are the only ones in the public sector to get a pay rise. Should Boris have said more in the way of 'Thanks,' possibly. I haven't tracked what he's already said. I know he's said thank you several times but I have no idea to what degree.
As I've made very clear in previous posts, I have zero time for Boris or this government but suppose the Government had offered 3%, do you think the outrage would have been any less? I don't understand in what way you think the government are playing politics with them. Politically, it would have been a great deal easier and more popular for them to have offered a huge pay rise and a nice fat bonus. Giving a smaller pay rise, which is still more than everyone else, was the difficult thing to do.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Don't know about anyone else...but a question has just occurred to me... Is this season going to happen for the British?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Nurses and doctors have had it incredibly tough and have done an amazing job. However, I'd argue that they do know, or certainly should, that they may well have to cope with situations like this.
I think this is totally outside the reasonable expectation of most nurses.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Should Boris have said more in the way of 'Thanks,' possibly. I haven't tracked what he's already said. I know he's said thank you several times but I have no idea to what degree.
He is a big part of the problem. Because of past behaviour most people don't trust a word he says and assume he is lying, has another agenda and will stitch you up.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
but suppose the Government had offered 3%, do you think the outrage would have been any less?
Yes, I think many would see that as a reasonable stance that would have got public support.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
I don't understand in what way you think the government are playing politics with them.
It looks like a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise a group of people to engineer a situation where privatisation is an inevitable response.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
mountainaddict wrote:
Don't know about anyone else...but a question has just occurred to me... Is this season going to happen for the British?
I think this is totally outside the reasonable expectation of most nurses.
Really? In the last few years there have been SARS, MERS and Swine flu epidemics. The NHS and PHE have run preparedness exercises for a pandemic. While few people expected that this pandemic WOULD happen, we've known for years that it was entirely possible and only a matter of time.
Quote:
He is a big part of the problem. Because of past behaviour most people don't trust a word he says and assume he is lying, has another agenda and will stitch you up.
Isn't this part of the issue? Boris has said thank you to the NHS on many occasions but because of the way he's viewed, compared to Prince Charles, his thanks are discounted as politicking or whatever? It doesn't mean he hasn't said a heartfelt thank you.
Quote:
It looks like a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise a group of people to engineer a situation where privatisation is an inevitable response.
Really? This is the same Boris who has just introduced reforms that reverse steps towards privatisation. If the NHS had been given a 1% pay rise when the rest of the public sector had been given bigger pay rise then you might have had a point but it's hardly credible when the NHS is the only one getting a pay rise at all.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
mountainaddict wrote:
Don't know about anyone else...but a question has just occurred to me... Is this season going to happen for the British?
Interesting question. I'm surprised nobody has asked that question. Maybe you should start a thread to discuss it!
@foxtrotzulu, Let's observe what happens to that group over the next couple of years. Let's see if we actually get to the 50,000 extra by 2024/25. Does the governments current approach help or hinder? My guess is that will be another missed or fudged promise.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
foxtrotzulu wrote:
Well, it doesn’t quite work like that. For a start they have probably spent a great deal of the salaries ‘saved’ on overtime, agency nurses or outsourcing the work to the private sector. Second, any money ‘saved’ will have been spent many times over on the Covid pandemic.
Fair enough. Late night musings. Though the huge sums of money would have been spent on the pandemic regardless. Question also arises as to why there is such a shortage. I doubt many would dispute that a proportion is down to Johnson, Farage etc basically telling part of the workforce that we don't want them here. Their response - stuff you, we'll go back and work in the EU where we're welcome; sort your own problems out. Well done, hard Brexit-pushers.
Looking forward to season 22/23.
After all it is free
After all it is free
foxtrotzulu wrote:
rungsp wrote:
2% is still misjudged
12.5% is equally so.
Pay up 5%...do the right thing.....and be seen to do the right thing politically...except that opportunity is now very tainted with the perception of another Rashford moment.
Honestly...these people are supposedly professional politicians, they never fail to act like total amateurs.
Surely this begs the question of whether we want politicians to do the populist thing or to do what they believe is the right thing?
On the basis of the economy, public debt, pay rises elsewhere in the public sector, pay rises/drops in the private sector, job security etc. then surely a pay rise of 1% is, dare I say it, pretty fair. The argument seems to be that the NHS deserve a bigger pay rise because of the efforts they have put in over the last year. However, if we want to reward that then a pay rise is the wrong mechanism. A bonus would be far more sensible as that would not distort comparisons with other public sector/ private sector workers and, even more importantly, wouldn’t be something that is forever locked in to future discussions. Just because the NHS might deserve to be paid more this year doesn’t mean they deserve to be paid more next year or in 2035, or whenever.
If we need to increase NHS pay for other reasons, e.g. attract more staff, then that’s a very different argument.
Yet this is he same government that has spent more on a failed test and trace system than it has cost to build the CrossRail network in London? Just saying its difficult to comprehend how a pay rise for front line NHS staff is deemed unaffordable, but shelling out to a private company for a product that doesn't work and isn't fit for purpose is ok.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I thought test and trace was reaching something like 93% of contacts now.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@FrediKanoute, I'm guessing the T&T system was meant to work. If it really is that bad I'd hope it could be deemed no fit for purpose and not paid for. That'll never happen though
Why on earth it cost so much is beyond me though!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@mountainaddict,
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
mountainaddict wrote:
Don't know about anyone else...but a question has just occurred to me... Is this season going to happen for the British?
Interesting question. I'm surprised nobody has asked that question. Maybe you should start a thread to discuss it!
I think I'll give up on the topic. Have started a new thread titled 'Is season 2021/22 going to happen for the British or for anyone else?'
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
BoardieK wrote:
I thought test and trace was reaching something like 93% of contacts now.
Maybe. How long did it take to find that person who tested positive with the Brazilian variant? There is reaching 93% and there is reaching 93%. If you are reaching 93% over the course of 2 to 4 weeks that's not a system that works and not for the £37bn reported to have been spent on it.
Putting it in perspective, you could put £350m a week into the NHS for 2 years and have change for what has been wasted on the T&T system.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Worth stating that T&T also includes Testing - while the trace but may be failing, I think the testing has actually worked well. Know many many people who have required testing and had results back within hours.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
robboj wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
mountainaddict wrote:
Don't know about anyone else...but a question has just occurred to me... Is this season going to happen for the British?
Interesting question. I'm surprised nobody has asked that question. Maybe you should start a thread to discuss it!
I think I'll give up on the topic. Have started a new thread titled 'Is season 2021/22 going to happen for the British or for anyone else?'
thank you. i see enough arguments about covid etc on twitter. i come here for some respite.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you'd watched the docudrama on the Salisbury poisonings by the Russians, you'd have seen exactly the sort of Test/Track/Trace system that was already in place in the UK, and already operating effectively for a variety of scenarios, including disease control. Yes, it needed to be scaled-up, but following the 2016 Cygnus review, one reason why the Government felt confident about facing an epidemic was that Local T&T had worked so well in the Salisbury crisis.
But what wasn't needed was a completely new system, developed from scratch, at commercial rates, to run in parallel. No one involved in the existing service could understand why they were being ignored. The 'outsourcing good/big government bad' mantra cost lives and vast amounts of money. And in the end, had to be integrated back into the existing system for it to work.
One reason why this season isn't going to happen for the British.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Interesting comments from Whitty and Vallance this morning - putting a little fear over next winter:
Quote:
What we are going to see is, as things are opening up, what all the modelling suggests is that at some point we will get a surge in virus.
We hope it doesn’t happen soon, it might for example happen later in the summer if we open up gradually or because of the seasonal effect it might happen over the next autumn and winter.
All the modelling suggests there is going to be a further surge and that will find the people who either have not been vaccinated or where the vaccine has not worked.
Some of them will end up in hospital and sadly some of them will go on to die.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ringingmaster wrote:
Interesting comments from Whitty and Vallance this morning - putting a little fear over next winter:
Quote:
What we are going to see is, as things are opening up, what all the modelling suggests is that at some point we will get a surge in virus.
We hope it doesn’t happen soon, it might for example happen later in the summer if we open up gradually or because of the seasonal effect it might happen over the next autumn and winter.
All the modelling suggests there is going to be a further surge and that will find the people who either have not been vaccinated or where the vaccine has not worked.
Some of them will end up in hospital and sadly some of them will go on to die.
I guess the overriding factor will be how many it will effect. If it's the same as seasonal flu, then I don't think another lockdown could be justified.
I sense and read that there will be much more of an emphasis on hospitalisations than 'cases' or R rates in the future. People getting infected with COVID should not be an issue if they don't actually get ill or die! I think Whitty was talking about a surge in cases, not in deaths-the point of vaccination is to break the link between them.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
There are a tremendous number of nurses in their fifties and early sixties who are up for retirement. The pandemic will likely encourage them to retire early. My 59yr old A&E staff nurse sister-in-law has always talked how she loved the job etc. However she has been genuinely frightened about going to work and has lost colleagues. She will retire next year.
I have been a nurse for forty-one years including 25 years in A&E. There has been nothing like this planned or envisaged. I am glad I no longer work in A&E as it has been horrendous and a feeling from the staff of being sacrifices.
I have also been an officer in the Army. Service personnel do put their life's on the line. However they have a fantastic non-contributory pension scheme. I have friends who have not been near a battlefield or naval ship in over fifteen years who will leave on pensions in excess of a senior sisters full-time salary.
There will not be a season for the Brits this year
Sorry it is not fair comparing nurses with service personnel who deserve pay rises themselves. Have been great supporting the Covid response. Just a response to @foxtrotzulu
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It struck me that politically it would have been a very good move if our serving MPs cut their own pay to the max amount they pay as furlough all the time they are preventing people doing their jobs....
After all it is free
After all it is free
Looks like organised outdoor exercise and non-contact sports (groups of up to 15) are now going to be allowed in Scotland from March 12th.
Might the late-season be saved, at least for the locals?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56337475
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
From The Guardian:
Quote:
France is to ease some Covid restrictions on international travel outside Europe, the foreign ministry has said. Travellers to or from Australia, South Korea, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Britain and Singapore will no longer have to need a compelling reason to travel.
All other restrictions, such as a requirement for a negative Covid-19 test less than 72 hours before travel, would remain in place, the ministry said, adding that a decree was due to be published on 12 March.
No sign that the UK will lift its international travel ban before 17 May, but perhaps things looking more hopeful for a summer trip to the (French) Alps.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
That’s good news! I’m hoping Switzerland will follow suit in due course...
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
