 Poster: A snowHead
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Stephen101,
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just like you are with your spelling and grammar, but that does not amount to negligence.
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If that is what you have to bring it down to try enforce YOUR opinion on the matter then you really are the "intellectual snob" i had you down for, crack on but dont go spending your re fund money anytime soon.
PS: How about changing you user name to - Richard Cranium
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stephen101,
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This is a bulletin board not the Spanish Inquisition.
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Actually i thought it was a public forum where one was entitled to offer opinion, as i have already told you "opinions are like ars*holes" everybody has got one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I wonder if there's money to be made going around Europe doing school risk assessments in and flogging them LEA's... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clarky999, see pages 1:
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Mind you, if anyone can point me in the direction of the job application "Wanted: independent skier to inspect resort and hotels around the calendar, around the world on behalf of a variety of group organisers, and write it up as a trip report afterwards." I will be first in the queue... Laughing
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I see we continue in circles.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 25-05-11 20:28; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
1969jma, not a perk. They cost bundles of tax. Buying your own or having company car is a close run thing.
You refer to inspection trip as "a FREEbie" - Do teachers put free trips down on their P11Ds? |
You reckon, If your selective about which car you take it's a no brainer. I have downgraded myself from a Mondeo to a Focus 1.6 TDCI perfectly adequate the benefit in kind is half, yes half that of a Mondeo. It comes in at less than £5k b.i.k. for the focus and half of that is for personal fuel.
For someone on 20% tax thats £1k a year, 40% £2k a year. So if you can buy, run, service and fuel a brand new focus for £2k per annum please tell how.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kel, I was, of course, referring to a car you'd actually want to own 
OK, last time I looked which was a number of years back, for my particular circumstances, there wasn't a whole heap in it. Let's agree it's a semi-perk then.
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Bode Swiller, And if the allowance is good enough and you select the right car with good depreciation values and decent loan period you can end up with a good asset on your drive that somebody else has legally paid for. 
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leedsunited, it doesn't beat buying a quality car that's already suffered it's big depreciation and maxing out the mileage allowance. Anyway, can we get back to inducements.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bode Swiller, Absolutely and just looked out the window and mine is still where i parked it
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Spot the difference
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Preview Visit Options
1. Individual Inspection visits
If you’re organising your group educational visit with NST, we offer a opportunity for you to visit your destination during the planning stage. We’ll pay for 2 nights accommodation (including breakfast) for up to 2 people sharing a twin room. Extra nights are available but will be charged. Whilst we do not include transport, we can book this for you. Ferry crossings may be available at subsidised rates. Please note: Terms and conditions apply. Subject to travel dates and availability. |
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| Inspection visits can be arranged for you to visit a variety of destinations and this allows you to sample the resort yourself, before taking your group on tour – a chance to try before you buy! It provides an opportunity to do risk assessments, familiarise yourself with the resort and the excursions, check out the facilities and accommodation, and take photographs and make preparatory notes relating to the tour prior to bringing your group out. We’ll pay for 2 night’s accommodation (including breakfast) for up to 2 people sharing a twin room. Extra nights are available but will be charged. Please note that all bookings are subject to travel dates and availability |
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| These special weeks are an opportunity for teachers and their families and/or friends to be able to enjoy a week of skiing without the responsibility of looking after young people. It is also a great opportunity for us to have the pleasure of meeting you in a relaxed and informal ski setting, and a chance for us to introduce you, perhaps, to some of the greatest ski resorts in the world. It is also a chance to welcome back some of our old friends who have been skiing with us for many years. We do not attempt in these weeks to take you to any unrealistic locations. We invite you to come to the same pensions or hotels where we will be welcoming the groups in other weeks ... where there is a party in excess of 90, the Party Leader is offered the possibility to come on one of our heli-skiing preview weeks, subject to certain conditions, which we will be happy to notify you of in this situation. |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
Kel, I was, of course, referring to a car you'd actually want to own
OK, last time I looked which was a number of years back, for my particular circumstances, there wasn't a whole heap in it. Let's agree it's a semi-perk then. |
I'd rather have a focus that someone else pays for and puts diesel in than any other car that I pay for. To be quite honest as long as it starts in the morning and takes me where I want to go in comfort I couldn't care less what I'm driving.
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You know it makes sense.
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leedsunited,
I'll let others allow you to judge your character and the value of what you say just by referring them to your own words.
Mrs Thatcher always said she knew she had won the argument when her opponents resorted to abuse.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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leedsunited,
Also as a matter of common courtesy when quoting others in future may I suggest that quote the entire sentence/paragraph so that you can at least get near to the writer's meaning, rather than what you think it is.
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Poster: A snowHead
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quality 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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leedsunited, actually from the 'inspection trips' I quote above it is clear that some of them exclude quite a lot of expense that would be needed to be paid by the school/teacher, i.e. travel, food, ski pass, extra nights etc so they go quite a way to satisfying your 'if its necessary why don't the schools/LEA pay for it' test. To me it seems that the TOs in the above cases probably have some spare room capacity and they are happy to invite teachers to carry out inspections on a 'no skin off our noses' basis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| rayscoops, but that thread has nothing to do with this topic, other than the Pettneu local lift system is bankrupt |
Achilles suggested that it was unlikely that a resort would go bankrupt as a reason for the TO to make a change, I quoted you and Stanton to suggest that is not quite the case - a bit of thread drift but on topic and relevant to a side discussion between myself and Achilles.
| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
| rayscoopsLike Achilles I'm now curious as to your motivation on these SE related topics? You don't organise school groups nor are you in a group person - you've said yourself on other threads that you largely travel on your own mainly doing DIY. Nor are you an agrieved parent worrying as to how you will get your money back, so why are you so interested? |
Because you have personally failed to acknowledge that the SE has been bribing (or offering a non essential trip or what ever word you want to use) teachers with their 'inspection trips' when most others accept this as pretty much as the case.
Also to be truthful because this is mainly a middle class right wing Tory supporting teacher hugging internet forum and I enjoy putting forward my views they may not coincide with this stereotyping, especially when the masses begin on a back slapping self congratulating/hand ringing one sided debates and the SE one was just that with Stephen 101 and his disciples putting forward a very black and white view of things
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rayscoops, a little OT, but overall sHs does not seem to be 'teacher-hugging'. If anything, I get the impression of lack of support for the teaching profession - from comments on their working year, to removing children from class to go on holiday during term time (quite apart from any direct effect on education, it doesn't show respect for what teachers are doing). So I don't think you need fear that sHs is automatically biased towards teachers' viewpoints.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So if I may round up where I think we've got to...
1) Some but not all service providers offer to opportunity for free/subsidised pre-visits by potential service purchasers.
2) Some but not all trips under the heading of "inspection reports" could be considered to be more than that.
3) Some but not all 'inspectors' may (or may not) be suitably qualified to use these visits as effective risk-assessment vists
4) Some but not all may (or may not) choose to enjoy themselves while engaging in this visit
5) Some but not all may (or may not) choose to inform the parents of the purpose and nature of the visits
6) Some but not all observers may (or may not) reference these as "necessary", "perks", "inducements" or "bribes" depending on their point of view
7) Some but not all users of an internet forum may (or may not) disagree with each other. 
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Arctic Roll,
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rayscoops, slightly depressed - found witness marks on my garden shed that show the door had been forced open, but which I hadn't noticed when I reported theft to the police - and the CPSOs who visited missed them too. But this is not the Dawn Chorus.
I have never known a teacher claim a free heli trip - have you? I too would think that improper. I do think a one or maybe two day trip may be reasonable. How the cost differences work out for that compared to staying a week, I don't know. It may be that if block-booked weekend charter flights are involved, there is not much - if any - difference.
I doubt if anything much will be added to this thread, now. Circular discussion continues, but minds are not being altered.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Because you have personally failed to acknowledge that the SE has been bribing (or offering a non essential trip or what ever word you want to use) teachers with their 'inspection trips' when most others accept this as pretty much as the case.
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Just like the witches failed to acknowledge they are witches before they were drowned by others who shared your enlightened approach to debating. All I can say is basing your case on Reynard's adverts may not be the striongest I have ever seen. As I've said to you and leedsunited, before if you really think there is a convincing case that teachers have committed the illegal activity of taking bribes then it is your public duty to pursue the matter with the authorities - since as has been pointed out this is all incredibly circular could I suggest you either put up or shut up.
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Also to be truthful because this is mainly a middle class right wing Tory supporting teacher hugging internet forum and I enjoy putting forward my views they may not coincide with this stereotyping, especially when the masses begin on a back slapping self congratulating/hand ringing one sided debates and the SE one was just that with Stephen 101 and his disciples putting forward a very black and white view of things
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Some of us are quite happy to defend teachers from accusations of criminal activity based on unsubstantiated evidence because it is the right thing to do - there are plenty of other negative things that can be said about teachers before descending to that level. I call it defending the very black view that you are putting across. If you want to have a proper debate about modern teaching I doubt that this is the best place.
As for this being a middle class right wing Tory supporting teacher hugging internet forum and one sided debates I wouldn't know - but your 11,000+ posts may well have contributed to such an impression. BTW I am most definitely not a Tory or right wing - though quite what that has to do with this I have no clue whatsoever.
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achilles, that is a pain, I recently had a house I was refurbing burgled twice in a few weeks, first on christmas eve and a bit later and the barstewards ripped out all the copper pipes that were remaining, even though I had already ripped out 80% of them and the cylinder and laid titv all out nicely in one of the bedrooms. They also ripped about £700 worth of lead of my newly tiled roof. I was not a happy bunny trying to nail up the front door at 3 pm on 24th Dec !!
Yes things are going round in circles and I have alread agreed a day ot two trip is probably justifed, especially the ones above whereby the TO is not even paying for transport etc. which supports the argument that teachers in these circumstances genuinely accept such a trip for Risk Assessment purposes.
I do not know any one who has been on one of those lavish SE inspection trips and taken up a bit of helisking but if they were really provided by SE then it could help explain 'where has all the money gone' questions.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Stephen101, Libdem then - what ever
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
rayscoops,  I think an inspection will almost always be needed for the first time a resort is used... |
I don't think so. MOST school trips are not ski trips. They go to many common places but they also go to some pretty far flung places. South America, places in Africa like Rwanda, and I've heard of trips to India, Nepal, Siberia, Japan you name it. My niece's last school trip was to Barbados ("Dear Headmaster, I absolutely need to do an inspection trip to Barbados etc...") I'm guessing (what's new?) but the party leaders cannot have inspected most such destinations prior to going there for the first time with group in tow. A ski trip is a cinch compared to say Rwanda. |
A couple of years ago, one of my colleagues looked into taking a group to Africa. What he found was that most of the companies offered a preview trip, and all of the ones he contacted provided him with a "trip leader". This was someone who took on the role of party leader and ran the trip, in the same way that the teacher would run a ski trip. The school would be expected to take staff, but their responsibility would essentially be to "crowd control" not to lead. A schools ski op will at best provide a rep (not always one per group....sometimes one per resort) and the teacher will be responsible for leading the trip.
I'm not an expert on this industry, and it may have been that he only contacted companies that would provide this, but I know that his opinion was that he didn't need a preview as the trip leader would have done that job and would be familiar with the area.
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Stephen101, Libdem then - what ever
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Same thing in my eyes.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm SO glad I managed to unearth another bag of popcorn. Great thread! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mrs Thatcher always said she knew she had won the argument when her opponents resorted to abuse. |
Yes i knew that when you posted
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| just like you are with your spelling and grammar, |
Suggest you go back and check every word perfect post you have made, of which at first glance there are many - people in glass houses and all that.
So with regards to your political bias, what have we established so far:
You dont like - The Daily Mail, Margaret Thatcher, people disagreeing with you, opinions other than your own, anybody that is below your own perceived intellect and anybody that does not know how to use spell checker.
On this basis i have you firmly in the "Commi Camp"
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Poster: A snowHead
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leedsunited,
So you are not careless with your spelling and grammar. I think you will find that Commi is usually spelt with an e. but you are probably too vane to notice. There is quite a lot of difference between fair comment and abuse.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stephen101, vain?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Guvnor, think about it!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Stephen101,
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So you are not careless with your spelling and grammar.
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I have never said or claimed to be great with spellin and grammar, and have never stooped so low as to use it to try and win an argument.
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I think you will find that Commi is usually spelt with an e.
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See there you go again 
It was only when you and a few other teachers on here strated to abuse me for it did it become apparent and some what hypocritical when you in your postings obviously have spell checker working some times and quite clearly not at others.
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but you are probably too vane to notice.
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And you are so wrapped up in your own little world to accept that anybody's opinion other than your own is acceptable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What I find odd is Leedsunited accuses teachers of not liking the opinions of others and people disagreeing with them when that is the very same appearance he gives off. I think teachers do a difficult job but I think they are well rewarded with pay and benefits, but what sort of reaction do you expect to provoke when acting as an antagonist. I tend to find that the owners of their own busineses to be fairly narrow minded (maybe keeping their own counsel has enabled them to be succesful) but wouldn't think of going round making that judgement on all I meet...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And you are so wrapped up in your own little world to accept that anybody's opinion other than your own is acceptable.
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I am quite happy for you or anyone else to have their opinions. Your problem seems to be that you cannot cope with the fact that others will not accept your opinion as the only one that has any validity - no one has to accept anyone's opinion and they are free to express contrary opinions. Geddit!
Facts are something else - as that well know "commie" Maynard Keynes said - "when the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do?
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colbolt,
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Leedsunited accuses teachers of not liking the opinions of others and people disagreeing with them
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I have never said i dislike teachers, you are generalising, the point, also made by others is that god forbid we question the actions of some.
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I think teachers do a difficult job
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So do i but again i use the word "some" just wont let you forget it and are exempt from any criticism however levelled.
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but what sort of reaction do you expect to provoke when acting as an antagonist
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I wouldnt call it antagonistic, coming from Yorkshire "I say it as i see it" and "If the cap fits wear it"
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Stephen101,
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I am quite happy for you or anyone else to have their opinions.
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I think a quick scan of this post and your other says different. Tn the words of the great Brian Clough, "Of course i listen to my players opinions, we sit down in my office and discuss it man to man for an hour, and then we agree that i was right all along"
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Your problem seems to be that you cannot cope with the fact that others will not accept your opinion as the only one that has any validity
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The words pot & kettle spring to mind
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As for some facts regarding what the Department of Education considers to be good practice for requirements for School Trips the linked 72 page document should be of use. Para 206 is of particular relevance to this debate.
https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/HSPV2.pdf
But it doesn’t stop there I’m afraid – local authorities go further and issue their own supplementary guidance – 180 page plus.
http://www.oldham.gov.uk/orgev_november_06.pdf
So if you want to organise a school trip in Oldham you have to wade through 250+ pages. And of course the inspection trip shouldn’t involve any pleasure either.
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FAQ
