 Poster: A snowHead
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
BASS spent many years in French & European courts to gain the right to work in France and that was with fully qualified ISTD instructors.
What's being done is not right, it's taking business away from the guys that have done it properly. |
Please correct me if i am wrong but i believe that some Brit ski schools/companies used to operate under the 'club' system. It will be rather ironic if these ski schools/companies now start complaining about others doing what they used to do. |
It only seems to be Spyderman who is exercised about this, for some reason 
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Just think of all of those 000's of pounds and years of effort the likes of Phil Smith, Sally Chapman, to name but a few could have saved by not bothering to gain ISTD status in order to run their courses. All they had to do was get an IVSI, charge their customers another £7 a year and call themselves a club. |
Sally Chapman doesn't need her ISTD status to run her courses - she normally engages ISTDs/trainers for the period of the course, who are already working out in resort or have their own ski school, to deliver the instruction.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
BASS spent many years in French & European courts to gain the right to work in France and that was with fully qualified ISTD instructors.
What's being done is not right, it's taking business away from the guys that have done it properly. |
Please correct me if i am wrong but i believe that some Brit ski schools/companies used to operate under the 'club' system. It will be rather ironic if these ski schools/companies now start complaining about others doing what they used to do. |
Indeed. A few examples come to mind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
BASS spent many years in French & European courts to gain the right to work in France and that was with fully qualified ISTD instructors.
What's being done is not right, it's taking business away from the guys that have done it properly. |
Please correct me if i am wrong but i believe that some Brit ski schools/companies used to operate under the 'club' system. It will be rather ironic if these ski schools/companies now start complaining about others doing what they used to do. |
The more relevent question is, why aren't these people still doing it?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| cathy wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Just think of all of those 000's of pounds and years of effort the likes of Phil Smith, Sally Chapman, to name but a few could have saved by not bothering to gain ISTD status in order to run their courses. All they had to do was get an IVSI, charge their customers another £7 a year and call themselves a club. |
Sally Chapman doesn't need her ISTD status to run her courses - she normally engages ISTDs/trainers for the period of the course, who are already working out in resort or have their own ski school, to deliver the instruction. |
Employing ISTD to deliver her courses, that's expensive. Why not call herself a club and use a L2?
She uses ISTD for a reason.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| BASI requires ISTD level qualification for a ski instructor to operate autonomously in resort. |
Sorry, Spyderman, I'm not picking a fight with you, but...
BASI does not require an ISTD to operate autonomously.
A L3 can operate autonomously in America based on their ISIA stamp. If the resort allows autonomous operation.
A L3 can opeate autonomously in Switzerland. If the resort likes you. (Warren Smith for example.)
A BASI L2 can operate autonomously in France. It's just that they can't charge for their services. (There's nothing in French law that prevents someone teaching for free.) You'd be harrassed out of resort, but you'd be legal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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FlyingStantoni, No dispute with what you've said. I should have said France, not BASI requires ISTD
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This is hilarious, guessing who does what, why, under whose jurisdiction of law and custom, who they may or may not have cleared it with beforehand and how much money they might have spent in trying to remember the number they first thought of. Given the minefield of regulations (some lawful, some plainly not) which exist here and abroad, my sympathy goes out to all instructors who'd merely like to earn a crust on some snow; but it's clear that they'd do better to try and plough their own furrows than rely on the wild speculation that abounds here. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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beanie1, thanks, will be interesting to see how the insurer's frame their reply.
edited then unedited
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 7-04-11 20:11; edited 2 times in total
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Hurtle, have worked on the white stuff for 5 years in france, italy, switzerland, austria, and germany. it hasn't been that hard. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jjc james, excellent, delighted to hear it! (My firm did a LOT of moaning about the French and their rules too, but we got there in the end!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski, thanks for posting that link about the IVSI. It makes quite plain that paid ski teaching falls under their remit and refers to instructors as well as coaches. It contains the stipulation that they can teach members of a ski club or similar but also mentions individuals with whom they have a pre-existing teaching relationship. In terms of level of skier it only requires that they be non-beginners and doesn't mention racing. The main no-nos are teaching beginners, working for a ski school at the resort and touting for business at the resort.
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slikedges, yep, it's basically about NOT steeling clients from the local Instructors.
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You know it makes sense.
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david@mediacopy, yes, as long as not beginners and you're bringing them out (the implication being that they wouldn't be there if it were not for you, ergo you're bringing the resort business), it's all on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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But be carefully just because the IVSI licence says your ok doesn't mean the resort your in will recognise the IVSI as a worthy qualification. So worth checking first.
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Poster: A snowHead
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jjc james,
| Quote: |
But be carefully just because the IVSI licence says your ok doesn't mean the resort your in will recognise the IVSI as a worthy qualification. So worth checking first
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The code of practice that goes with it specifically requests the holder to contact ski school/lift company before arrival in resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ski wrote: |
jjc james,
| Quote: |
But be carefully just because the IVSI licence says your ok doesn't mean the resort your in will recognise the IVSI as a worthy qualification. So worth checking first
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The code of practice that goes with it specifically requests the holder to contact ski school/lift company before arrival in resort. |
I'm told for Austria you pop a letter in the postbox to the resort/lift company and they write back to acknowledge. And for France you send a registered letter in plenty of time to the resort/lift company and local esf franchise then assume their tacit agreement.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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An article from BASI web site which may clarify a couple of points;
With Great Power comes Great Responsibility
As the winter season is drawing to an end and you are considering work for next year it is worth taking some time to reflect on what your snowsport instructor qualifications mean and whether you are covered should things go wrong.
“What’s the difference between God and a ski instructor?”
“God doesn’t think he’s a ski instructor..."
It’s an old joke, but when I heard it recently, on the back of a couple of situations being considered by the Board at the moment, it got me thinking that there might be a message in even an old joke like this. Do snowsport instructors have a God like sense that being armed with a BASI badge means there is no mountain (excuse the pun) we can’t climb, or even no mountain we can’t teach on?
I think, fortunately, the answer, is no and that instructors are aware of the limitations that exist in relation to their licence. Nevertheless, experience suggests that in practice the "who's, where's and what" an instructor may teach can get blurred, particularly when we’re keen to get work, impress clients and stand out from the crowd.
Unfortunately, the consequences for teaching while not qualified or insured can be serious. Members can and have become liable for fines and even incarceration – Not exactly the instructor dream! Anecdotal evidence suggests that skiers are falling into this trap more often at the moment, but the message applies to all disciplines and it is certainly not the case that this is a problem exclusive to those with Alpine licences.
It is with this in mind and the fact that BASI have had a number of enquiries from members recently regarding the legality of their employment at different levels in different countries and the consequences of not being properly insured we would like to extend the following advice;
1. Before accepting employment check the status of your qualification in the country you are planning to work in. There is information regarding this on the BASI website.
www.basi.org.uk/content/countries-rules--regulations-for-employment.aspx
2. BASI liability insurance acts as a safety net for those members who may be let down by their employers' insurance - eg if an employer fails to renew their policy, or if you are a member working independently. However, to be covered by the BASI liability insurance you must be working both within the remit of your licence and legally in the country of employment. If you are not covered by your employer's insurance (have you actually checked with them?) but are carrying out work that is not strictly within the scope of your licence, then you will not have insurance cover if a claim is made against you. (For an example, of the levels for Alpine instructors: see
www.basi.org.uk/content/alpine.aspx ).
3. Ultimately this amounts to a matter of individual responsibility. When assessing employment offers BASI would suggest that all members exercise reasonable diligence: check out your prospective employer and ask if you are insured, speak with former and current employees if you can, and make sure you personally follow points 1 and 2 above.
Finally, as you might be aware, BASI are involved in high level negotiations with the EU in an effort to achieve further clarity and equality in snowsport qualifications. Accordingly, the legal position regarding where members can work should become clearer over time.
Should you have any queries in relation to your licence please contact the BASI office for further advice.
Coral Riddell
Legal Director, BASI 13 April 2011
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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..... a little late this now but Tignes are doing a 50% discount for all and sundary on production of a valid ISIA stamp it would seem this year (well Autumn / at the moment).
Sorry if this has been flagged up elsewhere - have not read the whole thread!
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Day ticket is free in many of the Chamonix valley and neighbouring valleys! Which is amazing seeing as France don't like ISIA much! Tried using Euroski pro card in Austria once, they looked at me like I had asked for a BJ through the glass window!
PSG
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gilleski, I've wondered about that. Cham doesn't give any love for the IVSI card.
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FAQ
