 Poster: A snowHead
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peura,
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Thinking about the posture thing further, I think I'm right in saying that opinion is that the Lordosis is how females adapt the the load carrying during pregnancy. Could it be that the overweight female carries her "excess weight" in the same way?
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Probably. Although the fit pro magazine I was reading was talking about females generally and mostly slim athletic ones so I don't know. It didn't mention lordosis though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Told you so.
Actually this study suggests that I was slightly underplaying the amount of exercise needed. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, but I don't need to lose weight, and neither do lot of other posters here, I imagine. What about the question of fitness? What is it exactly, how would it be measured (e.g. in an ideal world where GP practices did a baseline "fitness test" on all patients) and how much do you need? What is "fit enough"? If there was a QOF measure of patient fitness (comparable to the long term blood sugar target for diabetics) what should it be?
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pam w, there's no agreed cut off for what is fit and what is unfit. Broadly speaking I'd say that the study above confirms what the rest of the evidence is pointing towards, which is that for a healthy lifestyle, fairly intense exercise is needed about five times a week. There is increasing amounts of research pointing towards the fact that muscle strength is as important as cardiovascular fitness, so resistance work is important as well.
There are many ways that you could measure fitness -
Time to run a mile, number of pressups in a minute, number of sit ups in a minute and seated reach.
Blood pressure, resting pulse, waist to hip ratio.
VO2max etc.
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Feeling quite chuffed today, as I've just measured my waist today, and I'm in the white zone for the first time in about 10 years.
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Kramer, : 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Feeling quite chuffed today, as I've just measured my waist today, and I'm in the white zone for the first time in about 10 years. |
What's the "white zone"????
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer, Well done lad!!! My damn bike is even heavier now and I have the DH tyres on again *gasp cough splutter*
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
| Feeling quite chuffed today, as I've just measured my waist today, and I'm in the white zone for the first time in about 10 years. |
What's the "white zone"???? |
We have special tape measures with white, amber and red zones on them. A bit like the food labelling, but more ominous.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, our PCT just gave us a crap one.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kramer wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
| Feeling quite chuffed today, as I've just measured my waist today, and I'm in the white zone for the first time in about 10 years. |
What's the "white zone"???? |
We have special tape measures with white, amber and red zones on them. A bit like the food labelling, but more ominous. |
ah, cheers!
For us with normal tape measures, care to share the zone measurements?? Maybe useful to keep an eye on things...
regards,
Greg
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Poster: A snowHead
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For us with normal tape measures, care to share the zone measurements??
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come off it, kitenski, that takes 6 years of training, reading that tape measure. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or perhaps some people don't need to exercise much to stay "fit"?
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yes, that's rather what I was thinking. And conversely that you could be, for example, fantastic at pressups but also live on pies and brown ale and have a very high cholesterol count and clogged arteries. Seated reach is about flexibility rather than fitness. Doing press ups depends on having certain muscle groups strong. A surfer would presumably be good at them, a long distance runner might be extremely weak in the arms. I am not bad at sit ups and I can improve my performance, by doing sit ups, without doing anything cardiovascular.
In my mind (where I might have it completely wrong) fitness is nothing to do with whether you can do press ups or sit ups, more to do with cardio vascular. And maybe some people are cardio-vascularly "fit enough" without doing so many hours of strenuous exercise a week. One has to hope so, given that only a very tiny percentage of the population - even of the active, non-overweight population who walk, play football with the lads from the office twice a week, or go to the gym three times a week, etc etc do what Kramer is recommending.
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| abc wrote: |
Some people run a mile fast, without exercise!  |
Agreed, some people do seem to have a genetic aptitude without the need to train intensively, but generally they are the exception rather than the rule, and even then, with training they get quicker, and so fitter.
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| And if you don't weight a lot to begin with, and lift a lot of boxes all day, your press-up is going to be impressive too. But that's not a true measuer of "fitness". |
I'd suggest that someone who does a heavy physical job lifting boxes is getting plenty of exercise, and so is almost by definition 'fit'. Also I'm not suggesting looking at any of these parameters in isolation, but in combination. Running is a measure of Vmax (CV fitness), press ups a measure of strength to weight ratio, sit ups a measure of core strenght, and seated reach a measure of flexibility. In combination, a good picture of overall fitness, and one that's used by many organisations.
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| Same with blood pressure and resting pulse. A lot of it are heriditary. |
Actually the research suggests that lifestyle factors are far more influential than genetics with both of these.
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Or perhaps some people don't need to exercise much to stay "fit"?  |
There are a few out there, but they are very much the minority, as the rising obesity rates both here and America show. Advice should be based on the norm, not the exceptions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, One of my instructors who taught both northern and southern hemisphere seasons used to say he was "ski fit" ..... He would always XC-ski after work .... but he said whenever he got home and went mountain biking between seasons it took him time to get "bike fit" again.... He skied so much that he never felt he was not "ski fit" but did notice the lack of bike readiness in the between season times.... I once complained he was so much fitter than me (I was rollerblading and running and hiking except in winter and could hold wall sits on 1 leg for nearly 2 mins IIRC) and he laughed and said no he was just more ski fit and had better technique, so used less energy to do the same job due to better efficiency.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Please tell me that all this tennis is doing me good!
Since I moved to Brussels, I've started to get back into tennis. On good weeks I play 3-4 times. It's always singles and I tend to play against good players and run around a lot, so after 1 - 1.5 hours I'm drenched and out of breath.
To take an example: played last Friday. played again Saturday. On Sunday I did some light climbing and nearly 2 hours of kayaking (fast, as we were trying to outrun a coming storm - didn't work). Yesterday I played tennis again. Over the last weeks I may not have done quite so much exercise but still more than in the UK (and I'm drinking less!)
I haven't been eating like crazy over this period but I've lost no weight whatsoever...
I'm currently 14st 2 pounds (90kgs) and aim for anywhere between 12st 8 pounds and 12 st 13 pounds (80 - 82 kgs) - for a height of 5'11 that weight would be ok given my body type (reasonable amount of muscle on legs and shoulders). What should I do??
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| pam w wrote: |
| And conversely that you could be, for example, fantastic at pressups but also live on pies and brown ale and have a very high cholesterol count and clogged arteries. |
Leaving aside the alchohol intake from the brown ale, the causes of high cholesterol aren't that clear cut. Diet plays a role, but so does genetics and exercise. I also think that we get too caught up in our cholesterol levels when in fact time spent looking at our overall lifestyle would give far more benefits.
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| Seated reach is about flexibility rather than fitness. |
I think that flexibility is part of fitness.
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| Doing press ups depends on having certain muscle groups strong. A surfer would presumably be good at them, a long distance runner might be extremely weak in the arms. |
As mentioned earlier in the thread, strength is important as well as cardiovascular endurance when it comes to fitness. There was a paper in the BMJ about this last week. All the long distance runners I train with are pretty good at press ups too. Press ups are a test of strength to weight ratio, rather than strength alone, so are a good measure.
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| I am not bad at sit ups and I can improve my performance, by doing sit ups, without doing anything cardiovascular. |
I'd love to know how you do sit ups without doing any cardiovascular exercise. When I do them, by the time I'm finished, my heart is pounding and I'm out of breath. If I've done enough, I'm sweating. Seems pretty cardiovascular to me.
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| In my mind (where I might have it completely wrong) fitness is nothing to do with whether you can do press ups or sit ups, more to do with cardio vascular. |
I think that's a very narrow definition of fitness. Fitness for me is about two things, quality of life, and reduction of risk factors. When you look at the elderly, where fitness suddenly becomes very important, because as it reduces with age it suddenly impacts on their activities of daily living, cardiovascular fitness is only one factor out of many that affects their quality of life. Strength, core strength, and flexibility are also very important.
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| And maybe some people are cardio-vascularly "fit enough" without doing so many hours of strenuous exercise a week. One has to hope so, given that only a very tiny percentage of the population - even of the active, non-overweight population who walk, play football with the lads from the office twice a week, or go to the gym three times a week, etc etc do what Kramer is recommending. |
Indeed. We're living in an obese, unhealthy society. 1/3 of adults in this country are obese (that's not just overweight, but obese), rates of type II diabetes are rising rapidly, and being diagnosed in younger age groups. As mentioned in another thread, part of the problem is that as the population becomes more unhealthy, what we percieve as the 'norm' also drops.
The fact remains, the recommendation is that adults need to exercise to the point of getting hot, sweaty, and out of breath, for at least 30-45 minutes, five times a week.
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| horizon wrote: |
| What should I do?? |
Stop worrying about your weight, concentrate on fitness goals, and try to eat a healthy diet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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horizon,
What are you trying to do?
Improve fitness? and fitness for what? IMHO there isn't one fitness. (e.g. The recommendation Krammer states is not enough to provide a fitness level I aim for.)
Lose weight?
Lose fat? (lower body fat percentage)
Build muscle mass?
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Kramer,
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I'd love to know how you do sit ups without doing any cardiovascular exercise. When I do them, by the time I'm finished, my heart is pounding and I'm out of breath. If I've done enough, I'm sweating. Seems pretty cardiovascular to me.
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I respectfully venture to suggest that you are doing them incorrectly. Years of Pilates have taught me that, in order to build up abdominal strength, slow, focussed, small movements with your abdominal muscles fully engaged, on controlled out breaths, are what you want. I cannot tell you the number of beefy chaps in my gym who bounce frenetically at their numerous sit-ups: I'm sure this is doing wonders for their cardiovascular fitness, but not a lot for their abdominal strength - the bounce eliminates half the work for starters! Mind you, the concentration on doing sit-ups and roll-ups with tummy muscles correctly engaged sometimes causes me to hold my breath by mistake: that does indeed lead to breathlessness!  Also, I would concede that darts - and any other variation of sit-ups which involve supporting/moving the weight of your arms and legs as well your torso - are cardiovascular exercise.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A gym instructor told me a good 'sit up' or 'crunch' routine. Lie on the floor, facing a wall, with your knees bent. Have your feet just touching the wall. Hold a 2kg medicine ball about a foot in front of you. Do 10 sit ups. Then from the sit up position, lean about 40deg back and stretch your arms in the air with the ball - up and down 10 times. Then do the whole thing 8 x , then 6 x, then 4x, then 2 x.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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erica2004, Sounds brilliant, but I suppose even better ie harder work, if you can manage to keep your feet flat on the floor without the help of a wall. And of course, if you add additional weight, strength and CV fitness come into this too. Phew, it's too hot even to think about this just at the moment. 
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DB, good questions.
I'm trying mainly to lose weight (by losing fat, not muscle mass) and improve fitness. Not trying to build a lot of muscle mass - more keen on uncovering the muscle mass that's already there. IF I lose weight I might want to build muscle again.
I agree there isn't a single fitness for everything. I'm not that keen on running and I don't know when I'll restart cycling. It would be good to start winter with a higher general fitness level - my fitness level tends to go up a lot during skiing season.
I find it very difficult to do exercise I don't much like for sustained periods (I mean a few months). That's why I'm focusing on tennis - running every day is boring, and doing cardio exercises at the gym is mindnumbingly boring. (doing weights I like, but that won't burn the fat around my waist).
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You know it makes sense.
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horizon, agree about cardio about the gym, although there's very few things out there as good as the concept 2 (rower).
Have you tried intervals, they tend to break things up and make them more bearable. Also spinning is a really good cardio workout (as long as you turn your resistance up when you're meant to) and quite social.
What is your goal in losing weight? Is it to look better, have a healthier lifestyle, or something else? As I've mentioned elsewhere, weight is a poor goal for quite a few reasons, and IMV it's worth looking a little deeper and maybe choosing a better goal?
Hurtle, no bouncing for me, but I do do them in fairly quick succession.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, the primary goal of losing weight is to look better. In Uni I had 75-79 kg, surely aiming at 82 isn't too ambitious?
I'm not really unfit. I'd like to be fitter but I'm not aiming at running marathons.
If I join a gym again, I'm going to try spinning. Though I'd rather buy a bicycle!
(read a great thing in an article recently. The author was talking about how exercise is supposed to help you live longer. He then said "but in old age, you feast on memories. If you've spent too much of your life going to the gym to keep fit, you won't have any good memories to keep you going during all that extra lifespan").
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Poster: A snowHead
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horizon,
Certain things work for some people but not for others. Things you could try -
To reduce fat keep a check on your calorie intake and create a small calorie deficit. Explanation here ....
http://weightloss.about.com/od/eatsmart/a/blcalintake_2.htm
Try and incorporate 'fat burning foods' into your diet
http://www.successful-diet-cabbage-soup.com/fat-burning-foods.html
Exercising just to get fit is boring, as you say gyms are boring. The trick is to find something you like doing that happens to be exercise (mountain biking, spinning, walking, running etc). A change of lifestyle rather than an intermittent fitness regime is the key to getting and staying fit. I'm not keen on running, tennis, squash etc as I want to ski late into old age and these sports can give joint problems later on.
Having a plan, goals/targets and then a lifestyle where fitness/health is maintained is better than crash dieting/fitness and cyclic weight swings.
If you are looking to get ski fit then good core stability (along with better technique) means you don't need to work certain muscles as hard to retain composure.
Sometimes people dive into a fitness regime and push it too hard from the off expecting results almost overnight. The body is spending too much time trying to repair itself and people eventually give up because the effort, aches and pains put them off. Any change to your lifestyle should be gentle so that you can adapt and build things up. Even professional atheletes have long periods of low intensity training at the beginning of their sports training calender. Like many things in life (decorating, gardening, sex etc) some things take time for the best results, the optimum results aren't always the quickest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Calorie counting is not a successful long term weight loss strategy.
This is pseudoscience.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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horizon, if you want to look better, concentrate on goals that mean that you're looking better, rather than merely on weight.
An appearance based goal would be to take a picture of yourself now in your underpants, and then compare it with how you look in three months time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I made the mistake of weighing myself this morning. I haven't done so for ages. I know I am overweight, so need no reminders. I want to improve my appearance, but really want to avoid weight related health problems when I am older. I aslo need to dramatically improve my fitness, but am failing to find the time to do it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm feeling quite chuffed today, because for the first time ever, I can do an unassisted pull-up. Close grip only at the moment, but I'll get the hang of wide grip soon.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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My next goal is to bench press my body weight.
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| Kramer wrote: |
horizon, if you want to look better, concentrate on goals that mean that you're looking better, rather than merely on weight.
An appearance based goal would be to take a picture of yourself now in your underpants, and then compare it with how you look in three months time. |
DON'T post this pic
thank you
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| Kramer wrote: |
Calorie counting is not a successful long term weight loss strategy.
This is pseudoscience. |
Says who, got any references?
These are just a couple of refs who seem to agree with what I stated ...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16002825
http://www.umm.edu/features/weightloss.htm
... and if your methods are so correct why aren't your stats better?
My BMI is 22 and after recently shedding fat (ca 5% of body weight from 19 to 14%) I'm trying to build strength/muscle at the moment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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horizon, Spinning classes are tough and not (imo) particularly enjoyable, but class based exercises are good for motivation. I know gym work can be boring but if you don't spend more than 10-15mins on one piece of cardio equipment then it shouldn't be too tedious. It is getting over that first hurdle. If you use the rower, you can target metres rowed instead of time - on the concept rower, it 'counts down'. i.e. put in 2000m and you soon see them whittle away. I get a buzz out of gym work and for me, vigorous exercise keeps me off the antidepressants in the winter. But, it has to be vigorous exercise. I think of exercise as something I have to do to stay healthy. Same with food - if I keep off the sugary stuff, I stay well.
I do think cycling is the best way to stay fit when time is lacking and it is fun.
I struggled with my weight during my 20's and 30's. It's only when I hit 40, that I managed to turn it all around. So I know where you're coming from. I just feel the benefits.
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DB, the pseudoscience reference was for the 'fat burning foods', not the calorie counting.
Calorie counting alone works well in some people in the short term, however in the absence of more significant lifestyle changes the long term statistics are very poor.
The first reference that you give seems to me to be agreeing with me, that people who successfully maintain their weight loss exercise for at least an hour a day, as well as eating a healthy diet. It doesn't mention calorie counting or fat burning foods.
The second reference that you give also seems to broadly agree with the advice that I'm giving. I'd disagree with the small paragraph about calorie counting, but otherwise I don't see that it's very different from what I'm suggesting.
I'm quite happy with my statistics thanks very much. Like I've said before, I'm looking for slow and permanent changes rather than quick results. It took 33 years to get in bad shape, I expect that it'll take quite a few to sort out.
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FAQ
).
However, I did come back on Sunday and cycle. However, the bike riding with falter over the next week as I have my Swiss friends coming to stay. Let's hope I can get back into it late next week.
