 Poster: A snowHead
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I am working for a big vendor in the cybersecurity industry as an engineer, and I can relate to your views here.
Essentially we want to protect against adversaries, but often tests are just bits of a kill chain, and not the actual kill chain. This gives some pretty skewed results, but that is what happens when you do atomic testing on software with software - I guess performing thousands of test with skilled people, is just too time consuming and expensive. Maybe it’s opposite with tires, and mechanical automated tests are just too expensive to setup?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ski3 wrote: |
There doesn't seem to be a taste on here to involve that level of detail though. |
I like the details, but maybe that's just me. Your explanation of the how the all-season design works compared to traditional winter tyres was interesting, I don't think I've seen that explanation before.
As you seem to be the resident tyre expert do you know whether the speed rating on winter tyres has a significant effect on grip (or wear) ?
I always fit V rated winters (max 240km/h) since my car normally has Y rated (300km/h) summer tyres but I sometimes wonder whether the grip would be even better if I moved down to H rated (210 km/h) instead. While it's always nice to have a bit of headroom for speed on the German Autobahn, maximum grip is also important for ski trips.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting discussion which doesn't alter my conclusion that the figure of 30% faster wear was plucked out of the air. My tyres last me ages. If seasonaires want big heavy vehicles obviously it'll cost them, and not only in tyres, but it's still only the marginal difference in wear/cost which counts. The old Fiat Panda 4WD would have been my choice, if I'd been a hard up seasonaire. I'd be fine with that grungy old French farmer with a lame sheep in the back look.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| jamescollings wrote: |
Just for the benefit of casual readers. I arrived at Alpe D’Huez yesterday driving my Summer-Wheeled car without any issues at all. The small amount of snow on the village roads was like a typical uk estate road, so drive sensibly and everything’s fine.
I did have snow socks ready just-in-case, but like every drive to the alps for the past 10years* they stayed in the package.
*11 years ago I had to fit chains to a Honda on the road up to La Plagne |
And it have worked until now - Maybe next time you end up driving over a cliff because you can’t stop - Nobody knows - Remember that you need to get down again!. I love your hunger for taking chances - Have you ever considered BASE jumping - Just for fun? |
Exactly. I live in Glasgow and have Michelin Crossclimate 2 tyres because they are better for "Cold" weather, not just snow. However, because I go to Glencoe (where the road is normally fine) and sometimes Glenshee (where it is not normally fine) I have a set of chains. Because a lot of folk without winter tyres get stuck the council sometimes don't open the snow gates even when there is only 10cm of snow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JohnS4 wrote: |
I always fit V rated winters (max 240km/h) since my car normally has Y rated (300km/h) summer tyres but I sometimes wonder whether the grip would be even better if I moved down to H rated (210 km/h) instead. While it's always nice to have a bit of headroom for speed on the German Autobahn, maximum grip is also important for ski trips. |
I am not an industry expert, but AIUI the speed rating for a tyre is about the construction of the carcass, not really much to do with the tread pattern and material. So while there will probably be a general correlation, it's more likely that higher speed rated tyres are also those which are designed to be the grippiest (and the most expensive) rather than any causal link. It's perfectly possible to design very grippy tyres that are not intended for high speed use, and in theory (but you won't find many) a high-speed tyre that has very little grip at all.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| JohnS4 wrote: |
I always fit V rated winters (max 240km/h) since my car normally has Y rated (300km/h) summer tyres but I sometimes wonder whether the grip would be even better if I moved down to H rated (210 km/h) instead. While it's always nice to have a bit of headroom for speed on the German Autobahn, maximum grip is also important for ski trips. |
I am not an industry expert, but AIUI the speed rating for a tyre is about the construction of the carcass, not really much to do with the tread pattern and material. So while there will probably be a general correlation, it's more likely that higher speed rated tyres are also those which are designed to be the grippiest (and the most expensive) rather than any causal link. It's perfectly possible to design very grippy tyres that are not intended for high speed use, and in theory (but you won't find many) a high-speed tyre that has very little grip at all. |
I wasn't sure but I thought the lower speed rated tyres might be softer tread and get warm more quickly and therefore have more grip. I know that the high speed summer tyres are definitely bad in winter but not sure if it works the same way in reverse so the lower the speed rating the higher the winter grip.
I do know that winter tyres can melt if you try to dyno your car with them on though ! The place that I got my car tuned has a strict ban on winter tyres on the dyno !
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| pam w wrote: |
| Interesting discussion which doesn't alter my conclusion that the figure of 30% faster wear was plucked out of the air. My tyres last me ages. |
There was a discussion about twenty pages back where someone claimed that winter tyres didn't wear any faster at all when used all year round. He was wrong. Personally I think the 30% higher rate of wear in summer is probably a reasonable guess, for anyone not driving at old-lady speeds all the time 
But there are no excuses for not having proper winter-use tyres; whether you choose to go with all-season and accept the marginal lower performance and extra summer wear that they _may_ impose or fork out for an extra set of wheels and tyres to swap over twice a year is up to the individual. Any such additional costs should be viewed as essential rather than optional.
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I just put 4 new bridgestone all weather evo tyres on our car. Plan on driving to Alpes twice a year. Cost was £600 fitted. We drove to les deux alpes last Easter on summer tyres with chains in the boot. Didn't need the chains and summers were fine.
The small additional cost for all seasons are worth it for piece of mind
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Interesting discussion which doesn't alter my conclusion that the figure of 30% faster wear was plucked out of the air. |
No it wasn't. As you clearly can't be bothered to read the previous links before making your uneducated statements, I'll spell it out for you.
The 30% wear was the difference between the projected lifespan of Michelin CC2s vs Goodyear V4S from this test https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
CC2 43,840 kms
V4S 62,095 kms
CC2 29.4% lower projected lifespan. Apologies for rounding up!
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| JohnS4 wrote: |
I always fit V rated winters (max 240km/h) since my car normally has Y rated (300km/h) summer tyres but I sometimes wonder whether the grip would be even better if I moved down to H rated (210 km/h) instead. While it's always nice to have a bit of headroom for speed on the German Autobahn, maximum grip is also important for ski trips. |
I would definitely recommend fitting the highest speed rating possible. One of the things I like about all-seasons vs full winters is that all-seasons are available in Y ratings.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It seems that you can pluck any figure that proves your point from the vast array of different tyre tests.
@Chaletbeauroc, if by "old lady speed" you mean trying to stick to speed limits and not screeching round corners on two wheels, yes. And given that, according to @Raceplate, that would save people a small fortune in tyre replacement costs (leaving aside the occasional fine) it's a rational course of action.
It's quite amusing that people who are being extraordinarily angry and judgemental with anyone who could put others at risk by not having winter tyres are also happy to sneer at anybody who tries not to break speed limits. Does not compute.
I am an old lady, now, true. But even when young I never had any need for a vehicle to enhance my image (Raceplate clearly doesnt think much of my Skoda  ) That's mostly a man thing. I've driven on 4 continents, cars and motorbikes, since I was 17 and never had a moving traffic accident (have scratched a couple of cars in awkward car parks - I'm not great backwards, and once killed a cow ). I have clearly been extraordinarily lucky in having encountered drivers with the ability to evade my more dippy manoeuvres, even on the notoriously dangerous old road from Nairobi to Mombasa. I am truly blessed; it must be the picture of the Virgin Mary I have dangling from my rear-view mirror with the lavender sachet).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes but these are 'projected wear' numbers, as far as I could understand. If they test the wear on a new tyre simply by how many miles it takes to wear off the first 1mm, say, then the results are meaningless. Tyre treads are made of of multiple layers, each often with different characteristics and compound chemistry. They will wear at different rates - often deliberately. The report itself says they were surprised by the results but it should be no surprise at all if they calculating on a false assumption: that tread wear will be consistent for each mm from 8mm down to 2mm.
This is why I earlier made the point about the inconsistency of most tyre tests. And that I doubt that anyone testing tyres would commit the resources to test wear on a real car, in real conditions over the tyre's actual lifetime of 20-40,000 kilometres. It would just be too time-consuming and difficult.
These inconsistencies are actually what makes feedback from forum users here and on car forums valuable - because they fill in the gaps and inconsistencies from commercial tests with actual ownership. Yes, such feedback is out of context and you need to be careful about generalisations, but that's also true of magazine tests as well.
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@pam w, Just joshin ya, hence the smiley. You've mentioned before how you drive, including, IIRC, the expression I used; no offence intended. And certainly not sneering.
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You know it makes sense.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| jamescollings wrote: |
Just for the benefit of casual readers. I arrived at Alpe D’Huez yesterday driving my Summer-Wheeled car without any issues at all. The small amount of snow on the village roads was like a typical uk estate road, so drive sensibly and everything’s fine.
I did have snow socks ready just-in-case, but like every drive to the alps for the past 10years* they stayed in the package.
*11 years ago I had to fit chains to a Honda on the road up to La Plagne |
And it have worked until now - Maybe next time you end up driving over a cliff because you can’t stop - Nobody knows - Remember that you need to get down again!. I love your hunger for taking chances - Have you ever considered BASE jumping - Just for fun? |
Exactly. I live in Glasgow and have Michelin Crossclimate 2 tyres because they are better for "Cold" weather, not just snow. However, because I go to Glencoe (where the road is normally fine) and sometimes Glenshee (where it is not normally fine) I have a set of chains. Because a lot of folk without winter tyres get stuck the council sometimes don't open the snow gates even when there is only 10cm of snow. |
EXACTLY - Everywhere else people prepare for the worst, but when it come to the ONLy contact with the ground that your car have, then it is apparently way to expensive - Although it could cause death and serious harm… just don’t get it !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
It seems that you can pluck any figure that proves your point from the vast array of different tyre tests.
@Chaletbeauroc, if by "old lady speed" you mean trying to stick to speed limits and not screeching round corners on two wheels, yes. And given that, according to @Raceplate, that would save people a small fortune in tyre replacement costs (leaving aside the occasional fine) it's a rational course of action.
It's quite amusing that people who are being extraordinarily angry and judgemental with anyone who could put others at risk by not having winter tyres are also happy to sneer at anybody who tries not to break speed limits. Does not compute.
I am an old lady, now, true. But even when young I never had any need for a vehicle to enhance my image (Raceplate clearly doesnt think much of my Skoda ) That's mostly a man thing. I've driven on 4 continents, cars and motorbikes, since I was 17 and never had a moving traffic accident (have scratched a couple of cars in awkward car parks - I'm not great backwards, and once killed a cow ). I have clearly been extraordinarily lucky in having encountered drivers with the ability to evade my more dippy manoeuvres, even on the notoriously dangerous old road from Nairobi to Mombasa. I am truly blessed; it must be the picture of the Virgin Mary I have dangling from my rear-view mirror with the lavender sachet). |
I actually been on the road from Nairobi to Mombasa - Quite interesting road. I also love the way that they handle potholes- They don’t fix it on the highway, they just build a speed bump just before the pothole
We need to hear more about that cow !
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Yes but these are 'projected wear' numbers, as far as I could understand. If they test the wear on a new tyre simply by how many miles it takes to wear off the first 1mm, say, then the results are meaningless. |
They don't. Auto Bild use a specialist company, IFV (Ingenieurgesellschaft für Fahrtest in Clausthal-Zellerfeld) for the wear tests who test them over 12,000 kms on road. Typical German efficiency, I'd say.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I actually been on the road from Nairobi to Mombasa - Quite interesting road
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I last drove it in about 1979. Overtaking the many trucks required not only the usual observation of oncoming traffic but also a judgement on the road surface on the other carriageway. You couldn't afford to hit one of the vast potholes (better described as places where the road surface effectively disappeared) at high speed with no room to steer round it. I recall going down one hill watching a bus coming towards me down into the valley from the opposite direction. His chassis was so deformed that the four wheels all would have left their own tracks.
There were horrendous accidents on that road - not least on Friday evenings when lots of expats would hare down there, after a day's work, for a weekend at the beach. Just looked at Google Maps. 486 km and they reckon it would take over 8 hours. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
| Yes but these are 'projected wear' numbers, as far as I could understand. If they test the wear on a new tyre simply by how many miles it takes to wear off the first 1mm, say, then the results are meaningless. |
They don't. Auto Bild use a specialist company, IFV (Ingenieurgesellschaft für Fahrtest in Clausthal-Zellerfeld) for the wear tests who test them over 12,000 kms on road. Typical German efficiency, I'd say. |
But that's only the first 12K, not the entire wear life of the tyre. And I'd still question the validity of how they do that even - just how do they ensure consistency of testing overw 12K kms when it must be being undertaken in different environmental conditions, temperatures, humidity etc. You haven't said whether these are real roads or a test track (each obviously has its issues). The data will be very useful and it's much better than a human driver going round a race track for an hour and then giving a tyre some subjective score. but it's still an approximation. The fact that the testers were surprised is of itself something of a question mark. Yes, it's a more systematic approach but the danger is in assuming consistency re the actual lifetime mileage and over-generalising about how different brands and categories of tyre behave.
Tyre manufacturers usually have a body of real-life testers (often employees) who get tyres at a big discount but have to feed back on wear and handling through the lifetime of the tyre. Of course, you'll never get to see this data, which is a shame. But everything else, now matter how German and how efficient, is an approximation and as the testers said, sometimes a real surprise. But is it a surprise because it's real, or because the testing is misleading? As someone who worked in the tyre industry, I never bother to read tyre reviews when changing tyres, because I found them to be so misleading when I was in the know. I tend to put a lot more store behind the feedback you get on car owner forums and on the manufacturer's own guidance on tyre characteristics.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| But that's only the first 12K, not the entire wear life of the tyre. |
And you can just as easily argue that lifetime testing is also utterly unrealistic as it would be impossible to duplicate the same conditions on road between different sets of tyres over 50,000 kms.
And whilst you might disregard tyre tests, it's pretty fair to say that consumers want to know if a newly-released product is deemed to be any good and worth a premium over an existing or competitor product. So as you've previously stated, it's better than nothing. The tyre reviews guy clearly makes a living from it so people are interested. And it was him who expressed surprise at the numbers but he has no self-sourced reference data because he doesn't do wear testing in his reviews. Auto Bild weren't surprised because they have many years' worth of data using the same methodology. The tyre reviews guy is just trying to justify why his test conclusion is very different from someone else's opinion that arguably has more credibility.
Auto Bild's consistency allows comparison of results across years and that's where it becomes interesting because the previous Michelin Cross Climate Plus had a very similar projected lifespan to the V4S, it is the newer CC2 that is predicted to be 30% worse. If you take that in conjunction with the CC2's much improved snow performance but reduced warm weather performance vs the CC+, that would suggest that Michelin have used a softer compound in the CC2, would it not?
And a softer compound would likely wear out more quickly, wouldn't it? Seems pretty logical to me.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I actually been on the road from Nairobi to Mombasa - Quite interesting road
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I last drove it in about 1979. Overtaking the many trucks required not only the usual observation of oncoming traffic but also a judgement on the road surface on the other carriageway. You couldn't afford to hit one of the vast potholes (better described as places where the road surface effectively disappeared) at high speed with no room to steer round it. I recall going down one hill watching a bus coming towards me down into the valley from the opposite direction. His chassis was so deformed that the four wheels all would have left their own tracks.
There were horrendous accidents on that road - not least on Friday evenings when lots of expats would hare down there, after a day's work, for a weekend at the beach. Just looked at Google Maps. 486 km and they reckon it would take over 8 hours. |
That’s in line with my experience doing it twice - so many casualties on that road every day.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The old Fiat Panda 4WD would have been my choice, if I'd been a hard up seasonaire. |
The 4WD cost a fortune. Better to take the 2WD and fit good winter tires and change them long before they hit the wear indicators.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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True. When we were in Kenya we went camping with friends who had a Renault 5. Their little car coped far better with dirt roads than our Cortina, but wasn't good uphill heavily loaded. Their kids sometimes came and sat in ours with a few bags for uphill stretches. Big heavy vehicles with big fat tyres aren't ideal in snow, especially with big fat passengers.
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Just took delivery of a new car (small 4x4) from Garage in Annecy (Haute Savoie) which came from a bigger dealer in Lyon.
It was delivered to a parking lot near our house on the back of a small flat-bed.
The reason it was not delivered to our house was that the flat bed from Annecy could not get up our lightly snow covered road.
I don't know if he didn't have winter tyres or just couldn't be arsed to put chains on his flat bed, as I was not present, but my son and Mrs took the delivery.
I had enquired from the dealer about getting winters fitted to our car before the delivery, but they are simply intermediaries in the supply chain with no say on the spec of the vehicles that come their way to sell on.
So on getting the car off the flat bed they too couldn't get up our road as the car (from Annecy) had Summer tyres, despite winter tyres being mandatory in the whole of Haute Savoie.
They stuck a set of socks on and drove it up.
Vivaldis being fitted tomorrow, so we might get to use it 
It's hardly surprising that Jean-Pierre Poitiers does not care about winter tyres, when local auto industry professionals seem to ride rough shod over / completely ignore the legislation.
@LaForet have the orignal creators of the tyre grip graph started demanding you pay them royalties, as we are 5 pages deep into a winter tyre thread and your nifty graphic has yet to be wheeled out?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Poppycock, @Raceplate. My 4 Michelin Cross Climate tyres cost £385, fitted (if your poverty stricken seasonaire is paying £600 he's an idiot). |
Tyre costs depend on size. Your basic Skoda Fabia will use a basic and cheap size because it's, er, a Skoda Fabia. Most lifestyle seasonaires will at least try to have some kind of AWD vehicle, usually an ancient 4motion VW, Audi quattro or a Subaru AWD. They won't run on boggo 14" or 15" wheels with a high and cheap tyre profile that your Fabia does. The average cost of a CC2 on a 17"+ wheel is easily north of £150/wheel and if you don't believe me look for yourself. https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-model/michelin-crossclimate-2
| pam w wrote: |
| They don't wear out 30% quicker |
Really? Are you qualified to make that statement ? Maybe you should research the literature from people that almost certainly are qualified to make judgements on tyre wear before declaring your definitive opinion? https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm |
If you run a car like that on a budget you deserve no sympathy and can't complain about the cost of tyres. You've opted to run a vehicle you cant sensibly afford
2wd with winters will be better than any 4wd without proper tyres.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I know it looks good but have auto manufacturers done everyone over with the fashion for big rims and low profile tyres? Not that practical re contribution to ride comfort on the Mogadishu like roads of the UK and ruinously expensive or lack optionality to replace.
I'm sure there are performance advantages but seeing an old lady sat helplessly in a 21 plate hi spec Corsa with a wheel hanging off the axle caused by the potholes of the shopper car park made me wonder.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Does a 21 plate hi spec Corsa have a spare wheel?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
| But that's only the first 12K, not the entire wear life of the tyre. |
And you can just as easily argue that lifetime testing is also utterly unrealistic as it would be impossible to duplicate the same conditions on road between different sets of tyres over 50,000 kms. |
Yes.
| Quote: |
| And whilst you might disregard tyre tests, it's pretty fair to say that consumers want to know if a newly-released product is deemed to be any good and worth a premium over an existing or competitor product. So as you've previously stated, it's better than nothing. The tyre reviews guy clearly makes a living from it so people are interested. And it was him who expressed surprise at the numbers but he has no self-sourced reference data because he doesn't do wear testing in his reviews. Auto Bild weren't surprised because they have many years' worth of data using the same methodology. The tyre reviews guy is just trying to justify why his test conclusion is very different from someone else's opinion that arguably has more credibility. |
But if the test mechanism is flawed then so is any analysis and conclusions, however much data is collected.
| Quote: |
| Auto Bild's consistency allows comparison of results across years and that's where it becomes interesting because the previous Michelin Cross Climate Plus had a very similar projected lifespan to the V4S, it is the newer CC2 that is predicted to be 30% worse. If you take that in conjunction with the CC2's much improved snow performance but reduced warm weather performance vs the CC+, that would suggest that Michelin have used a softer compound in the CC2, would it not? |
Aagain, only if the test method is representative. If it isn't, then you can't draw any conclusions from cosistency or inconsistency of results.
| Quote: |
| And a softer compound would likely wear out more quickly, wouldn't it? Seems pretty logical to me. |
Not necessarily. it would depend on the compound chemistry.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| JohnS4 wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| JohnS4 wrote: |
I always fit V rated winters (max 240km/h) since my car normally has Y rated (300km/h) summer tyres but I sometimes wonder whether the grip would be even better if I moved down to H rated (210 km/h) instead. While it's always nice to have a bit of headroom for speed on the German Autobahn, maximum grip is also important for ski trips. |
I am not an industry expert, but AIUI the speed rating for a tyre is about the construction of the carcass, not really much to do with the tread pattern and material. So while there will probably be a general correlation, it's more likely that higher speed rated tyres are also those which are designed to be the grippiest (and the most expensive) rather than any causal link. It's perfectly possible to design very grippy tyres that are not intended for high speed use, and in theory (but you won't find many) a high-speed tyre that has very little grip at all. |
I wasn't sure but I thought the lower speed rated tyres might be softer tread and get warm more quickly and therefore have more grip. I know that the high speed summer tyres are definitely bad in winter but not sure if it works the same way in reverse so the lower the speed rating the higher the winter grip.
I do know that winter tyres can melt if you try to dyno your car with them on though ! The place that I got my car tuned has a strict ban on winter tyres on the dyno ! |
ChaletB is correct in that the speed rating is primarily the carcass and it's ability to resist deformity within constraints through centrifugal loading. The higher the speed the more the carcass has to be specified to hold onto itself.
This in itself will give a more malleable carcass for example H rated vs much higher, that's desirable as cold weather performance is related to that elasticity, but unlikely you'd experience a big enough step to notice significant improvements.
Dyno running, soft slicks (surely the ultimate summer tyre) too are a problem, as they can't ordinarily control adequately the heat buildup when running. They have to run them "against the brake" to measure torque, meaning they are running in constant slip and probably up to above 5% surface to surface difference which builds heat FAST. Without that it couldn't really measure torque (each pull is effectively flat out torque wise) as the roller/brake has to run behind the tyre to keep measuring the increase.
Absolute acceleration of vehicle comes at about 15% slip but wears the tyres to hell, they use this as parameter in motogp for traction control on new tyre, but as the rubber wears they have to back that down to hold onto tyre temps and just to get it to the end of the race without going up in smoke. By that point their torque map vs traction algorithm is probably down to about 2 or 3 %.
Dyno work can be a severe test for a tyre, many will have problems with that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jedster wrote: |
| My 2015 AWD diesel scout is Euro 6 and therefore ULEZ compliant. |
He doesn't have the budget for a 2015 car, it's a 2009 model.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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He should clearly have a Skoda Fabia which, with the right, cheap little tyres, will be fine.  Or a Fiat Panda. Or even a 21 year old Toyota Yaris, like my daughter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I know it looks good but have auto manufacturers done everyone over with the fashion for big rims and low profile tyres? Not that practical re contribution to ride comfort on the Mogadishu like roads of the UK and ruinously expensive or lack optionality to replace.
I'm sure there are performance advantages but seeing an old lady sat helplessly in a 21 plate hi spec Corsa with a wheel hanging off the axle caused by the potholes of the shopper car park made me wonder. |
Absolutely agree, its completely nuts and also by taking out so much tyre flexibility the tread compound, and its need to be so "specialised" has to try and accommodate all that a reasonably flexible carcass could contribute to.
Is it oxymoronic ? That we have "winter" tyres with sustained 150mph rating when all of them have Absolutely no need or even anything likely to apply the skill level to travel in that elevated arena ?
Yes I know that these tyres can be used in non snow conditions, no need for anyone to "state the bleedin obvious" (faulty towers reference) but everything up there in capability takes something away from where they are used in ordinary speed range encountered within general travel.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Some of these technical "advances" seem completely pointless. My niece (not a complete idiot, she's a qualified GP) borrowed a car from a friend a couple of weeks ago to go and see her dad, who's ill and take him out to tea. She works in London and cycles everywhere, has no car. She got the car going and warmed up (it was very cold), got her Dad into the car and comfortable, then decided she needed a pee before leaving. Went back into the house, left the keys on the shelf in the cloakroom, then drove about 20 minutes to nice tea place. And of course, couldn't start the car, or lock it, so had to call for help. What was so wrong with the old system? Key in lock or car won't go? Yes, it was a daft thing to do but people do daft things and cars ought to become more foolproof, not less.
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| pam w wrote: |
| He should clearly have a Skoda Fabia which, with the right, cheap little tyres, will be fine. Or a Fiat Panda. Or even a 21 year old Toyota Yaris, like my daughter. |
Do you know, after 30 years in the car industry, if there's one thing that truly saddens me, it's the fact that the vast majority of the buying public wouldn't know a decent car if it ran over them.
It's not really their fault, they simply don't have the reference points for the differences in how a quality car drives compared to a poor one because they've driven so few different cars in their lifetime. So they just get sucked in by whoever has the best marketing department.
They buy a car after a short test drive and when it's time to change they maybe test drive a couple more in a similar category before making a decision and that's the end of their experience each time. They have no idea what's really out there or how much better a 10 year old quality car will still drive than many, many brand new ones (as long as it's been properly maintained).
With regards to your delightful selection of vehicles, there is no substitute for wheelbase. Small cars ride crap and always will. It's physics, you cannot change it.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Some of these technical "advances" seem completely pointless. My niece (not a complete idiot, she's a qualified GP) borrowed a car from a friend a couple of weeks ago to go and see her dad, who's ill and take him out to tea. She works in London and cycles everywhere, has no car. She got the car going and warmed up (it was very cold), got her Dad into the car and comfortable, then decided she needed a pee before leaving. Went back into the house, left the keys on the shelf in the cloakroom, then drove about 20 minutes to nice tea place. And of course, couldn't start the car, or lock it, so had to call for help. What was so wrong with the old system? Key in lock or car won't go? Yes, it was a daft thing to do but people do daft things and cars ought to become more foolproof, not less. |
All cars with keyless systems will flash up a warning on the dashboard to tell you the key is not in the car - they have proximity sensors. She was likely too distracted or unfamiliar with the vehicle to notice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| With regards to your delightful selection of vehicles, there is no substitute for wheelbase. Small cars ride crap and always will. It's physics, you cannot change it. |
Very true… I have 6 year old E-class estate (non AMG) that laps up motorway cruising and feels solid on icey roads. My third one and love them.
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FAQ
I consider myself a defensive driver and one key element of that is keeping a sensible distance from vehicle in front. I am also a very relaxed driver - I have a friend (also old) who can't understand how I can drive the way I do - long distances, including solo to the Alps. But driving with him is stress-inducing even for the passenger as he is constantly hot under the collar about other drivers, and fretting that it might have been quicker to have taken a different route. I drove him to Heathrow once and told him that if he advised me once more that I could be going 2.56 miles per hour quicker in the outside lane I'd dump him on the central reservation. 
