 Poster: A snowHead
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@michaelbury17, did you not think there was a risk when you booked? I'm down £600 for unused flights this week, I'm going to move my January eurotunnel and hope for the best. Anyone booking over the last couple of months must surely have done it in hope rather than certainty, including me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zzz wrote: |
@michaelbury17,
I would guess your cancelled holiday is a small(ish) % of your annual income. For the tour operators the ski season IS their annual income. They have massive costs. |
What?
This is an Independent apartment, so not a TO.
So, I book in good faith, pay VRBO €3620 & the fRench Govt shut the border & thats it?
I am expected to suck it up!
The owner of the apt gets his cash, re-lets the apt or not either way, cash in the bank.... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @michaelbury17, did you not think there was a risk when you booked? I'm down £600 for unused flights this week, I'm going to move my January eurotunnel and hope for the best. Anyone booking over the last couple of months must surely have done it in hope rather than certainty, including me. |
We booked in April
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@michaelbury17, well given we were in lockdown, didn't really have much in the way of jabs I have to say that was brave. What was your insurance cover when you booked?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| michaelbury17 wrote: |
| zzz wrote: |
@michaelbury17,
I would guess your cancelled holiday is a small(ish) % of your annual income. For the tour operators the ski season IS their annual income. They have massive costs. |
What?
This is an Independent apartment, so not a TO.
So, I book in good faith, pay VRBO €3620 & the fRench Govt shut the border & thats it?
I am expected to suck it up!
The owner of the apt gets his cash, re-lets the apt or not either way, cash in the bank.... |
Well, I guess they pay off their mortgage rather than stick the cash in the bank.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes I am an owner and many of my other owner friends have mortgages and bills that do not go away - and they may be already carrying a bunch of refunds from last season. The owner held your reservation in good faith in accordance to their T&C’s which you agreed to. Why should you be entitled to a refund? They have offered a refund if they relet. This is normal when booking holiday accommodation in France once you have made full payment - especially when booking from an agency that manages local properties. I am sorry you are out of pocket - it sucks. Many property owners are suffering. Unfortunately best you can hope for is a credit with this particular owner.
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| Zorrac wrote: |
As mentioned somewhere in this thread Brittany Ferries CEO seems about as upbeat as you can get with the restrictions, from his letter on their website:
"Although we are yet to receive official notification of how long any restrictions may be in place, we understand the changes to travel requirements will begin Saturday 18th December for two weeks (but this will be subject to change), we’re planning to support affected passengers through this short-term arrangement.................
.........With dates for this temporary change being unclear, we’re not going to proactively contact people on sailings we believe to be affected. I suspect further change may come suddenly so I’ll make sure our webpages are kept up to date; please continue to refer to these for information and support.
Please note the above will be subject to review this Tuesday 21st December."
from
https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/information/coronavirus/ceo-message |
Potential hope for my 8th Jan trip - unless the rumoured 2 week uk lock down happens!
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@michaelbury17, I dont own a rental in France but fully agree with the owner. Maybe alarm bells should have rang when your insurance company wouldn't cover it. Maybe you should have gone with a tour operator offering the guarantee. I'm all in on an appartment later in the year. I knew the risk when booking.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@michaelbury17,
did you pay for credit card? might be worth contacting them.
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@michaelbury17, I appreciate your situation, unfortunately the way out or the mitigation of it has long since gone. Insurance does cover it in certain policies as do the booking policies of various lets, I.e. a clause which states if you cannot get there due to covid, borders closed etc at the time of travel full refund.
Generally anyone who provides any service has incurred costs, whether it’s capital or operational may or may not be relevant. The person liable generally is the one taking the risk, this season was never risk free and to boot it carried additional costs.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This time last year there was much discussion of getting into France with a "Attestation d'Enregistrement" for a Withdrawal Agreement Residence Permit. We got in to France with our address on a letter from the Douai Mairie after the FR officials in UK weren't interested in the Attestation. But in the end didn't go through with WARP and decided on long stay visas.
The current French imperative reasons include:
"Third-country nationals holding a residence permit
residence permit or long-stay visa
French or European valid,
whose main residence is in France."
We have 6 month long stay visas and the address again.
So wondered if anyone has yet used a long stay visa and address combination??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think that the lessons here are either buy the best travel insurance that you can afford or not book something that you cannot afford to lose.
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@colinstone, don't think the long-stay visa would be worth the gamble in case you get turned back, but combine that with my idea about flying to Turin, and that might work, be a better option?
Though obviously depends where in France you have to get to, but from Turin you can also drive up through Aosta and Mont Blanc tunnel?
Someone I know (Oirish passport) is flying back to Dublin and then flying to France from there.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Full lockdown in Holland reported to be expected shortly.
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Yes, but would have been able to drive on.
Now Germany is putting UK people into 2 week quarantine I think that option is gone.
@michaelbury17, good to know. We have been looking at Italy & the US. The slight problem with the US is there doesn't seem to be any skiing on NYE anywhere in Colorado, their lift tickets are sold out. And of course as we're so late booking the flights are doubling the price of the holiday. 
France should confirm Omicrom is the dominant variant any day now, so they may then relent on stopping the Brits. But with Germany imposing their Ban who knows.
All up the spout as far as we can see.
Fingers crossed for Austria & Italy it is!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Literally arr in Calais on ET
Though I uploaded the docs req to the web site they weren’t validated so expected problems
Nope waived through and even French passport control never asked to see reason for travelling
Hundred of UK cars so little confused why to be honest
Never seen anyone being turned round
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="jafa"]....Hundred of UK cars so little confused why to be honest .../quote]
They might have French residency?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| michaelbury17 wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @michaelbury17, did you not think there was a risk when you booked? I'm down £600 for unused flights this week, I'm going to move my January eurotunnel and hope for the best. Anyone booking over the last couple of months must surely have done it in hope rather than certainty, including me. |
We booked in April |
It’s a pity as the 3V have on the whole very generous cancellation policies up to the day before for covid reasons. We have benefited from this for our rental in St Martin and also been offered it elsewhere in Morzine. It seems you may have been unlucky and picked somewhere through VRBO which does not have equivalent rights: https://www.les3vallees.com/en/guide/covid-19-peace-of-mind/cancellation-guarantee
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@jafa, >even French passport control never asked to see reason for travelling....
Very interesting. Are you FR resident or have a long stay visa??
Perhaps the FR are more concerned with mass air travel numbers??
@Weathercam, thanks, but final destination is CH apartment Jan to March. Plus need to visit FR address to winterise water/plumbing systems. If I get turned back, then at least I made effort!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@michaelbury17, @Skimum1, I had our place with VRBO until the subscription ran out early this year, 2021, and I did not renew for various reasons. I seem to remember stuff coming through about covid related refunds and you had the choice to allow covid related refunds or not. At one time I think they may have made it compulsory but cannot be sure and they pushed it as a sort of marketing plus as I remember. There should have been a section in the individual listing that said what the refund conditions were and specifically with respect to covid I think. I cannot access my listing now as, like I said my subscription ended.
VRBO are a USA based / owned group that appears to have bought up lots of locally based booking platforms, Abritel in France for example, and then imposed their own extra money making strict rules about payment methods, booking fees (imposed on renter even though the owner has paid a subscription), money processing fess etc. etc.
Good luck in dealing with them, be prepared for lots of hanging on the phone waiting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skitow, interesting, I booked a place 2 years ago through airbnb, looked this year at the same place. No covid cover, no refunds. So went to another operator for the same place and got a full refund option under various covid conditions. Full on free market from the yanks!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Levi215, I don't run my place as a business, as long as rental income covers some of the expenses and taxes I am happy. In fact it was occupied until the ski lifts stopped in 2020. I refunded any bookings after that. After that I got a call from a previous renter asking if their daughter and partner could isolate there as the hotel they were working in had shut down thus losing their accomodation and they did not want to return to Paris. They stayed there for 3 months as I remember and sent me photographs from their daily walks around the deserted slopes etc ! Sort of like a daily dose of snow porn  I gave them a very much reduced rate and it all worked out well, they left the place in perfect order.
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@michaelbury17, I would certainly expect the credit card company might come to your aid on this one.
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@eblunt, Why ? Just interested....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| Yes I am an owner and many of my other owner friends have mortgages and bills that do not go away - and they may be already carrying a bunch of refunds from last season. The owner held your reservation in good faith in accordance to their T&C’s which you agreed to. Why should you be entitled to a refund? They have offered a refund if they relet. This is normal when booking holiday accommodation in France once you have made full payment - especially when booking from an agency that manages local properties. I am sorry you are out of pocket - it sucks. Many property owners are suffering. Unfortunately best you can hope for is a credit with this particular owner. |
I am in the same boat. UK based booking from April has not yet paid their balance to the agent they booked with who let them delay it. I agreed to a shorter delay, but it is now past that.
They are due to stay on 15th Jan. I have electricity (heating still needs to be on), management fees, copropriété fees, taxe d'habitation, taxe fonciere, broadband, TV licence, water bill, mortgage, insurance, advertising costs and until they actually cancel, I can't even attempt to relet it. These bills still have to be paid, and were paid throughout the French lockdowns when we were unable to let out. The only thing that I save on is cleaning and laundry.
I had bookings that were brought forward to this summer and virtually no income for last winter when there were no ski lifts open. Anyone booking as far back as April when we were all unable to travel at all should have considered there might be a risk that this would happen and not booked anything if they either weren't insured for that risk or could afford to take the hit.
I'll be carefully considering all UK requests in future, and prioritising my advertising to the French who all went ahead last winter even when there were no lifts open. None of them even asked for a price reduction or discount.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Ozboy wrote: |
| Yes I am an owner and many of my other owner friends have mortgages and bills that do not go away - and they may be already carrying a bunch of refunds from last season. The owner held your reservation in good faith in accordance to their T&C’s which you agreed to. Why should you be entitled to a refund? They have offered a refund if they relet. This is normal when booking holiday accommodation in France once you have made full payment - especially when booking from an agency that manages local properties. I am sorry you are out of pocket - it sucks. Many property owners are suffering. Unfortunately best you can hope for is a credit with this particular owner. |
I am in the same boat. UK based booking from April has not yet paid their balance to the agent they booked with who let them delay it. I agreed to a shorter delay, but it is now past that.
They are due to stay on 15th Jan. I have electricity (heating still needs to be on), management fees, copropriété fees, taxe d'habitation, taxe fonciere, broadband, TV licence, water bill, mortgage, insurance, advertising costs and until they actually cancel, I can't even attempt to relet it. These bills still have to be paid, and were paid throughout the French lockdowns when we were unable to let out. The only thing that I save on is cleaning and laundry.
I had bookings that were brought forward to this summer and virtually no income for last winter when there were no ski lifts open. Anyone booking as far back as April when we were all unable to travel at all should have considered there might be a risk that this would happen and not booked anything if they either weren't insured for that risk or could afford to take the hit.
I'll be carefully considering all UK requests in future, and prioritising my advertising to the French who all went ahead last winter even when there were no lifts open. None of them even asked for a price reduction or discount. |
I totally feel for you Hells Bells, and quite understand why you’d consider that course of action.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In the UK my wife and I run a business, during the lockdowns we were effectively advised we had no option but to refund clients who's events couldn't go ahead due to the UK governments legal restrictions, even though we still had bills to pay etc etc, like many people in the same boat.
I appreciate this is a completely different situation & industry, but the way it was explained to us was that we were effectively charging a client (and therefor profiting) for a service the client wasn't legally able to use or take part in.
Imho understanding and compromise from both sides is the key to a fair outcome.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Ozboy wrote: |
| Yes I am an owner and many of my other owner friends have mortgages and bills that do not go away - and they may be already carrying a bunch of refunds from last season. The owner held your reservation in good faith in accordance to their T&C’s which you agreed to. Why should you be entitled to a refund? They have offered a refund if they relet. This is normal when booking holiday accommodation in France once you have made full payment - especially when booking from an agency that manages local properties. I am sorry you are out of pocket - it sucks. Many property owners are suffering. Unfortunately best you can hope for is a credit with this particular owner. |
I am in the same boat. UK based booking from April has not yet paid their balance to the agent they booked with who let them delay it. I agreed to a shorter delay, but it is now past that.
They are due to stay on 15th Jan. I have electricity (heating still needs to be on), management fees, copropriété fees, taxe d'habitation, taxe fonciere, broadband, TV licence, water bill, mortgage, insurance, advertising costs and until they actually cancel, I can't even attempt to relet it. These bills still have to be paid, and were paid throughout the French lockdowns when we were unable to let out. The only thing that I save on is cleaning and laundry.
I had bookings that were brought forward to this summer and virtually no income for last winter when there were no ski lifts open. Anyone booking as far back as April when we were all unable to travel at all should have considered there might be a risk that this would happen and not booked anything if they either weren't insured for that risk or could afford to take the hit.
I'll be carefully considering all UK requests in future, and prioritising my advertising to the French who all went ahead last winter even when there were no lifts open. None of them even asked for a price reduction or discount. |
I totally feel for you Hells Bells, and quite understand why you’d consider that course of action. |
An alternative would be to clearly state on booking that you will not refund in such an eventuality, and advise clients to take out travel insurance with adequate Covid protection (I'm staggered that people are booking without such protection this year tbh).
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| Quote: |
I totally feel for you Hells Bells, and quite understand why you’d consider that course of action.
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+1
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
mho understanding and compromise from both sides is the key to a fair outcome.
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I have sympathy for that too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| michaelbury17 wrote: |
| zzz wrote: |
@michaelbury17,
I would guess your cancelled holiday is a small(ish) % of your annual income. For the tour operators the ski season IS their annual income. They have massive costs. |
What?
This is an Independent apartment, so not a TO.
So, I book in good faith, pay VRBO €3620 & the fRench Govt shut the border & thats it?
I am expected to suck it up!
The owner of the apt gets his cash, re-lets the apt or not either way, cash in the bank.... |
VRBO are not above the UK Law.
Get yourself some legal advice & start a court order for you monies.
Avbro would have 2 options.
1x settle out of court
2x fight it & set precedence.
For such a small amount, precedence if they lose would have a huge impact on their business model & across the whole aggregator sector.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@stodge, you may be, but many travel insurers won’t cover for lockdowns / closed borders as they are now anticipated events.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thing is, a lot of money is being lost by a lot of people at the moment (a few Chums making windfall profits but let's leave them aside....). The insurance industry only exists to make money; they won't insure risks which are highly likely to come to pass. Practically all of us have to expect to lose money in this situation and of all the people for whom I have sympathy, people like myself who can afford ski holidays are way down my list. Not at the bottom, but certainly some distance below those whose livelihoods depend on people who can afford ski holidays. They are not all fat cats. Many of them (certainly just about all the ones I'm familiar with in the French Alps, and it probably holds true in Austria too) are not as fat as people who can afford family ski holidays.
My Welsh aunts used often to say "chwarae teg" which (though I don't speak Welsh) I recognised in context as an expression of not just "fair play" but also a warm regard and consideration for those concerned.
Chwarae teg, Snowheads.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We will of course compromise, and I will once again either try to relet and refund their deposit, or move their dates to next year and hang on to it. Under the terms of the French refund policy last time, I would have been within my rights to ask for their balance on the original due date, or cancel the booking and keep the deposit they had paid. Many French resident owners had a some government support, but initially it was a maximum of 1500€ regardless of how large or small your hospitality business was and was based on your income for the same month in the previous year. A 30 room hotel got the same as a 1 bed apartment. Hoteliers were still having to feed families and pay bills.
It is the assumption that owners can all afford to just shell out the cash to refund without a thought that is a problem for me. I just don't have almost 2 years income hiding under the matelas.
I had quite a bit of cancelling to do for my own trip this weekend. I booked knowing there was a possibility things might just go tits up again.
I booked hotel rooms that weren't prepaid, a Eurotunnel that can be moved (when I can get through on the phone) and had cancellation cover on our season passes. I don't want to sound smug about this, it's called weighing up risks and
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Skimum1 wrote: |
| @stodge, you may be, but many travel insurers won’t cover for lockdowns / closed borders as they are now anticipated events. |
There are plenty that do - you have to select carefully. Many don't cover pandemics but have added exclusions for covid.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We have yet to find out when the travel restrictions will end.. might be end of jan ?,!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes I'd be surprised if it were only 2 weeks.
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Do any Irish travellers have any information, if going to France via GVA, is PCR test required, or does this count as exempt as transiting??
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| peanuthead wrote: |
| Do any Irish travellers have any information, if going to France via GVA, is PCR test required, or does this count as exempt as transiting?? |
Try this one: https://travelcheck.admin.ch/home
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Only bar rumours I hasten to add, but Jan 5th is being touted as the next date for a decision as to what happens next.
First time I've been out to a bar since the announcement and a guy that runs the bar and is ESF and very involved with the British Army Championships is very deflated.
Plus, where normally the bar would have a number of holiday Brits in, now only Frenchies with their one drink/coffee which they can manage to last on for a good hour or so
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Went to Cocorico in Val D this evening. Heaving, lots of Brits. Band. Great fun
Have been check for PS religiously at every food/drink spot but not once on the lifts yesterday and today
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FAQ
