The Arlberg Snow Report 2017/2018 (Mud Season May/June))

A snowHead

Just back from 5 days in Stuben. Usually head to St Anton in March with the boys but went on a couples trip and stayed at the Hubertushof. Snow conditions were at best variable and absolutely crap in some places (run from Fangbahn to Griabli/KK etc was horrendous - slushy moguls with ice in between). Started snowing heavily yesterday in Lech/Zurs/Stuben and woke to 25/30cm of fresh snow this morning - St Anton looked as though it got a fraction if any at all on the way to Innsbruck this morning. Managed to beat the rush this morning and the run from Valfragher to Stuben was amazing so stopped off at the Valfragerbahn to get one more run before leaving and the run was chopped to shreads for second run and looked carnage when we drive by around 10.30 this morning.
Managed to get some live band action at Griabli on Monday and was good to see Chris lees and Reno playing with a few other guys. Headed down to see Gunar too and was pretty sad to see how ill he looks.
Anyway another great trip to the Arlberg.

A snowHead

@ianvip, Easy...

Please learn a bit about doing Business (operation/acquisitions/trade licenses) in Austria & the personal declarations which have to be registered with the local magistrate and it includes Religion, like it or not ....

This is all Public Information...

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Official Weather

A cold front will cross our regions on Thursday night, a period of cold late winter weather will follow. A brief period of improved conditions and mostly dry conditions with sunshine and clouds are forecast for Friday. Beyond the weekend a low-pressure area over North Italy will dominate the weather. Colder air will infiltrate our regions from the north. Mostly heavy, partly multi-layered clouds and occasional precipitation are expected from Saturday through Monday. Larger amounts of precipitation are not forecast, although the snow line will reach the low areas in the valleys. According to current weather models, slightly improved conditions will approach not before next Tuesday.

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Thinking of 4 nights in st anton next week. How heavy are the lift queues this time of year normally?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@foley, Queues nothing to worry about in general, you just don't want to be at certain places at certain times of the day, ie Schindlergratbahn 10-11am or Valfegehrbahn after 3pm on a sunny day when folks go further afield to ski the White Ring.

After all it is free

We'll be in St Anton for the first time next week, staying in Nasserein. Can anyone help with a couple of quick questions:

- How early do you need to get to Flexenbahn (going St Anton to Zurs) to avoid the queues? It sounds like it can get pretty busy.

- Also, is there a way to ski to Lech from Zurs without using the Madloch chair, which seems to be a real bottleneck? Ski route 160 is the only option I can see on the app, but it seems to be closed.

Thanks.

@RobMcQ,
it looks like it on the map, but Route 160 (Wiesele) is not ending in Lech, but along the road between Zürs and Lech.
No alternative but bus Zürs-Lech, every 10 minutes

The queues at Flexenbahn are not the main issue. It is the carnage at piste nr 100. Which is a long piste. Marked blue, but.....Go as early as possible.
Be advised that already many people prefer the postbus St.Anton-Lech (again...). Also to be able to enjoy the many beautiful pistes, and restaurants in Zürs and Lech in a relaxed way.
If you or members of your group prefer it easy or gentle, the connection St.Anton-Zürs-Lech might not be for you

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@Langerzug, many thanks.

It looks like we have to do 3 lifts and 2 pistes before we get to piste 100. Assuming an 08:45 start on Nassereinbahn, I guess that puts us at the top of piste 100 about 09:30. Is that early enough to avoid the worst of it?

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@RobMcQ, No idea what piste 100 is (sorry I don't know the numbers) but if you are at Flexenbahnlift over to Zurs before 09.45 you wont be queueing either at the bottom ur mid-station where you get out to go to top of Trittkopf. Coming back be at Trittkopf bottom station in Zurs by 15.00 and you'll be OK, after that you'll potentially be held up. There could be queues at bottom of Valfegehrbahn on way back so just go up Albona 2 for a couple of runs up above Stuben until queues clear (you can see them from above) and then ski down.

If its a sunny bluebird day queues could be potentially worse.

Bus from Trittkopf station in Zurs to Lech, but before you do make sure you do the loop around Muggengratbahn and back, its a great 45 mins that and shouldn't be missed.

I wouldn't get concerned about queues, I ski Arlberg loads and very rarely queue and have never had issues at the new Flexenbahn, you've just got to get out early, once you are in the masses its too late to bother going over i'd suggest, go another day if not out early.

Another tip - if you have a few of you say 6-7 then just get a cab back from Zurs it'll work out 8-10€ each and they'll drop you back in town in St Anton, or Apres Bar at Moos - that way you make the best of being over in Lech/ Zurs and don't have to worry about queues and getting back.

snow reports

Any idea why the Valluga and Trittkopfbahn are closed? I guess wind.

The best way to avoid queues is to get up early, mid morning is always the worst time. Take an early lunch, more space and quieter pistes when you start again as all the late starters will be eating / topping up on beer.

@Markymark29, cheers. We'll get an early start and plan to just use the bus from Zurs to Lech, making sure we take in Muggengratbahn first.

You know it makes sense.

Thanks👍👍

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@RobMcQ, I am not interested. If you look back quite a few seasons on here I have mentioned this before when the old galzigbahn was running and they were in planning phase...

If you just tuned in get used to it..

A snowHead

Next week probably Tuesday we will be bacl down to -10C after sundown.

A snowHead

Grim conditions today

Flat light
Warm
Windy

Muggengrat in the morning and madloch later were in good nick - but not much else. Lots of punters in Zurs seeking to escape the horrors of st anton

Lower stuff slushy mohnenfluh runs blown to ice by the foehn

Better prospects tomoz tf

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@RobMcQ,
The Madloch piste is not to be missed, even with the queues. It's better than piste nr 100.
Conclusion: take the bus from St.Anton to Zürs

@Markymark29 It is not very helpful saying "you just need to be at the right time at the right spot" Last week queues at Schindlergrat, Arlenmähder and Flexenbahn were quite horrible all thursdaymorning until 11.00. No way going around it.
Piste nr 100= Valfagehr. And in a horrible state from 09.30, with thousands of people on it. Looking like ants from the Flexenbahn

...The more I'm writing and thinking about it, they never should have constructed the Flexenbahn...Arlberg was beautiful as it was, and I can't see them solving this mess.

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@RobMcQ, just ignore Stanton. Most of us do. He is a “cut and paste” keyboard warrior, who occasionally finds something useful and reposts it. Mainly he is a jerk - just read some of his posts and you quickly get the idea. Perhaps if he actually tried skiing and visited St Anton he might chill out a bit.

Back on topic... I really doubt that queues will now be a problem, so late in the season. Disclaimer: that is what my local friends say; I am usually gone by mid-March.

Some tips to avoiding the worst of the queues:

1. Be flexible. Change your plans on the fly. For example, if you get down to Flexenbahn, and it is crowded, go over to Stüben, or go back over to StA.

2. As others have mentioned try to return to St Anton before 3pm to miss the worst of the Trittkopfbahn and Flexenbahn queues. Plan B: ski out the day in Zürs/Lech and catch the Post Bus.

3. At lift open, Nassereinbahn and Galzigbahn usually have the biggest queues. Gampenbahn and Rendl are often better bets.

4. Madlochbahn usually has the worst queues from (say) 10am to sometime after lunch. Madloch to Zug is best skied early in the morning.

5. If Schindler is closed first thing, then skip Arlenmähder. The piste down will be a circus and the lift queue will be worse. Change your plans!

6. If you go during British mid-term holidays or Fasching, expect crowds. This year they coincided, along with holidays in Tirol and Vorarlberg. That was an interesting week. If there has been fresh snow, followed by a bluebird day, there will be crowds. Amazing how many people come down with a 24-hour stomach bug!

7. The queue for the Vallugabahn is usually big for the whole day, often out the door, Nice ride and scenery, and should be done at least once, but keep an eye out for a short queue. Not worth waiting 20+ minutes.

There is probably more, but this is all I can think of at the moment. Hope it helps.

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@Langerzug, on your last para I tend to agree. It really has been a huge waste of money. The busses worked fine. The queues it creates are just a bit depressing. Manageable. But you can’t help thinking what’s better about this. Arguably the environment, but if lots of people end up reverting to the busses then it doesn’t make much difference.

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@nozawaonsen,
Clearly it is working as a marketing-tool. But in reality it is not working. Which makes you wonder how long the marketing-tool will be working...
Alpe Rauz+Zürs will always be the bottle neck, and I can't see them solve that. Valfagehr, Trittkopf, Madloch, there is little space or possibility for more or wider pistes.
Another -softer- issue is the fact that especially St.Anton's world-fame attracts the crowds, but St.Anton's skiresort in reality is not suitable for the masses, lacking gentle and cruisy pistes big time. So these people all are going to look for that type of pistes, and get to know these are to be found in Lech and Zürs. And these piste appear to be easily accessible, but in reality are not. Too far, too circumstantial.

Would not be surprised they will come up with a more differentiated Arlberg-skipass, or even splitting it up again, with buyers in St.Anton need to pay a mark up for access to Lech-Zürs (and vice-versa).
That way they can still use the marketing-tool, but fewer skiers actually will switch between both sides. (or more in detail: fewer St.Antonians wil switch to Lech; Lechers are not switching that much anyway wink

)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I am here now but it is my first time and only been 2 days so I can't offer much but it does seem like this place is ill suited for intermediate piste skiers. I have not taken the flexbahn yet, but if I was sticking to the pistes, based on what Ive seen so far, I would head to Lech to get away from the madness in St Anton. Off piste has been excellent north facing and up top, terrible below. Havent waited on a queue yet luckily.

Snowing in Stuben right now.

After all it is free

Folks you need to abandon the lifts and get to the real skiing ...Lovely morning.

http://www.skitours-paradise.com/tour/lechtaler_alpen/dawin/dawin_flirsch

Your get some decent exercise as well instead of sitting idle on lifts & rip off mountain bars all day Happy

Snow coming tomorrow evening

@ulmerhutte, thank you. With our trip coming up I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while, so I had a reasonable idea of what to expect from stanton. Even then, I thought his casual bigotry the other day crossed a line and needed a response. Sucked in by the troll I guess. Given his response to the comments from several people about his post, I think I'll follow your wise advice from now on and just ignore him.

Thanks also for the tips on avoiding the queues. I'll try and keep those in mind while we organise our days. It sounds like being flexible is going to be the biggest help.

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@kitenski,
No, the blue busses between Alpe Rauz and Lech are not there anymore
But the yellow postbus St.Anton-Lech is -of course- still running. And early morning these are full, and in fact two at a time are running....With skiers that is.

snow reports

The Post Buses (both Line 91 & 92) are unchanged. The Blue Buses now terminate at Tritkopfbahn.

@Langerzug, I get your frustration, but really I cannot see restrictions being placed on the ski passes. Zürs clearly wanted, or needed, more income. First came the connection to St Anton, then the free car park, which has been enlarged over the years, followed by tour buses (shock horror!), and now the Flexenbahn. They are probably now addicted to it, ie cutting out/down income from St Anton skiers would likely put a big hole in their finances.

You also then have to consider Warth/Schröcken, ie what sort of deal was done to have them merge into the Arlberg pass. I am sure they have seen, and expect, a boost from StA skiers coming across, which a restriction at Zürs would impact. No, I think the soufflé has been cooked, and cannot now be uncooked.

@ulmerhutte, Exactly, and the whole area is better for it imo. Where they have perhaps misjudged things in St Anton is over-marketing it as the "White Ring" and "Run of Fame" (whatever that is) before the whole infrastructure is in place, ie Madlochbahn and Zug lift replacements. They have had a huge marketing campaign in St Anton which has attracted many more piste skiers to the area, the type of people who are used to skiing huge ski areas like 3V, EK and PdS who equipped with their apps want to tell their buddies how far they've skied in a day etc. These guys are out as soon as the sun shines and congregate at 10.30am at Flexenbahn then start blaming the infrastructure and queues.

The reality as I've said many times here is that if you get out early and get over via Trittkopf you can still do the Muggengrat loop, get to Madloch/ Zug no queues and be in Warth for 11.30am latest, and get back pre 15.00 via Trittkopf and over to Valfegehr. You potentially get queues at VFGB which is in need of an upgrade now from 6 to 8 person but simply head up Albona (empty at 15.30) and say do a run down the back, and down to Stuben and then back down to VFGB and it will be empty for you. You may miss Tanzbodenbahn link as too late to get back up to Galzigbahn which I guess could be a problem for some but if that's the case they maybe need to stand in queue at VFGB and get back down Galzigbahn rather than do Kandahar.

Zurs imo has an identity crisis, it seems to lack a heart and certainly we never eat there because there's nowhere (apart from the new BBQ place at top of Trittkopf which is always mega busy), I don't know why they don't open say a Rendl or Galzig style self-serve at Zursersee and actually embrace the travellers rather than bemoaning them. Lech and increasingly Warth will enjoy more potential lunch business and Zurs will be forever treated as a pass-through unless they gear up for the opportunity which is presenting itself. Most places look for more passing trade and embrace the opportunity, Zurs appears to be trying to discourage them and saying keep going we don't want your business.......

The Blue bus service between Lech and Zurs is excellent if needed, and the Post Bus is packed on return with people trying to avoid the Valfegehrbahn scrum, all you need to do in that situation is club together with others in same situation and taxi back, or get to Trittkopf earlier pre 15.00 and then head up Albona.

Its not that hard is it.....really?

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@ulmerhutte, Only the first sentence of the above was relative to your comment btw.

I actually get really annoyed that people are bad-mouthing the Flexenbahn, its simply brilliant in my view and i'd rather be skiing than sat on a bus, but hey each to their own. You've just got to get out of bed in a morning, or sit in the queue's (bit like travelling around the UK)!

A snowHead

I think we are in violent agreement! Happy

Slightly funny story... we were on a lift with one of our StA friends, along with a Zürs ski instructor and his client. The client might be best described as a dowager, older, certainly rich, and with an attitude. The latter I only found out when my friend later recounted the conversation they had in German. It seems she was very put out by the great unwashed coming to Zürs. Where was she? On the Auenfeldjet on the way to Warth. Hmmm.

A snowHead

@ulmerhutte, @Markymark29,
sorry guys, but your analysis is not very good, and often too personal. Saying things like "people just need get up earlier and know how to avoid the queues" is not very usefull. And we have been parking for free in Zürs already in 1993.
The effect of the Auenfeldjet is marginal. We -staying in Lech- have not seen real changes at the morning-queues at the Rüfikopf, which is a good measure I think. Warth and the Bregenzerwald/Lechtal are small players, with limited accommodation.
And no, St.Antonians are not having lunch in Warth so much. Just impossible from a logistical/practical reason. The masses can be happy to grab a quick lunch in Oberlech before they must return to St.Anton. That's reality.
I do agree on the identity crisis in Zürs though Very Happy

After all there is just one thing too realize: Follow the Money. Therefore I like to invite you to imagine you are the owner of one of the many 5***** hotels in Zürs or Lech. And, also, a major shareholder in either SkiZürs AG, or Skilifte Lech.
Your guests are paying 1000-2000 euro per night for a room. Your hotel is quite large, with approx. 50 rooms. Your hotel is closed in summer, money is made between Christmas and Easter. Your guests kept silent last winter, but this winter the complaining storm at your hotel's reception is overwhelming, and very depressing. Moreover, after years of repeat bookings by a huge percentage of returning Stammgäste (very economical, no need to spend money on marketing), this now is clearly in decline. Guests openly saying next winter no Lech or Zürs. Reason: Flexenbahn.
What are you going to say at the next shareholders meeting? You are not going to talk about that silly 7 Euro Gulaschsuppe in Warth are you?

(just to make that clear: we are not staying in a 1000 euro/night hotel Toofy Grin

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Sunny morning, but so soft again after lunch

Love the flexenbahn myself - but love the audenfeldjet more. Razz

And I miss the No.7 blue bus too

Season over for me - postbus at midday like a true "scatter"

You nutters play nice on here over the summer snowHead

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@Langerzug, I understand what you are saying, and appreciate the argument, but it ignores reality. The Flexenbahn is there and it is not going away. It is a major change to the area, and there are bound to be pros and cons.

After being critical of it last year, or rather the way it was implemented, I have grown to like it. I suspect that is because I have learned to maximise the advantages and minimise the disadvantages. I appreciate that a one-week a year skier may not develop that knowledge and a weaker skier may not have all the options I have. I also appreciate that some visitors to Zürs or Lech might not care for going to StA (or Warth, for that matter). For them, the Flexenbahn is certainly a minus.

You talk about the hotel owners losing money from fewer bookings, but as you point out many are also shareholders in their respective lift companies. They get ski lift income from the people coming through. Their problem, if what you say about their grief is true, is that they have not yet learned to maximise the advantages, and are still focused on the negatives.

If Zürs and Lech were successful in getting restrictions placed on the through traffic, the impact on the whole Arlberg brand would be, IMHO, huge. The brand is all about being an integrated collection of some of the most desirable ski villages in Europe, the size of the area, the easy movement between parts of it, and the choices that offers. I would therefore be surprised if the contracts did not limit the options for individual areas to restrict traffic.

No, Zürs (in particular) has to learn to adapt. It had little ambience for through traffic, and it now has less. Places like Stutze 6 and the outside bar at Seekopf are no longer there. Perhaps to regain it, it needs more on-slope eating places, some live music in places, and... some investment in lifts: Madloch, Zürsersee, and Seekopf. The morning queues on the latter 2 lifts discourage doing laps on that side. The hoteliers might have to adjust their offerings, if they are not filling their rooms.

In a nutshell, in my view the Flexenbahn is reality, it is not going away, the positives outweigh the negatives, but the visitors, the village, and the hoteliers will need to put in an effort to make it work for them. The alternative is to whinge and play the victim.

I think, in the end, we may have agree to disagree. Sorry about the brain dump... I guess I got on a roll! 😝

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I agree I've never seen the attraction in Zurs. If the attraction was based solely on some isolationist snobbery and keeping the riff raff out then the hoteliers should have blocked all attempts to link the place. They didn't so they've made their own bed. Tough.

(And I've never seen how Zurs could ever be viewed as a 5 star resort with that crappy ancient Madloch lift anyway....)

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Of course the Flexenbahn is not going away, that is not what I'm suggesting.
And yes, I do think you are still thinking too much from your very experienced position, knowing your ways to go around queues etcetera. My impression is that not only Lech and Zürs are being damaged by this, but St.Anton as well, with the huge lines and the carnage at the Valfagehrpiste.
Friend of ours, first timers in St.Anton, found the skiresort a disaster... and will not return. Again: follow the money!

But very well imaginable is a differentiated Arlbergskipass, with different options for guests to buy. In St.Anton, a basic skipass, valid for St.Anton-Stuben is imaginable, with access to Zürs-Lech-Warth at an extra cost. And vice-versa. I'm sure the more economical minded people will stick to the basic version, and will just not get into the Flexenbahn that week that way. Queues might be completely eliminated that way.
Surely it will cost a bit, but definitely from a Lech-Zürs perspective this would be a very viable option. The cost in lower room prices because of failing Stammgäste might/will be higher....again...follow the money

After all it is free

What a great Saturday on the Hill

Some hot air jumpers over on Rendl

snow conditions?

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North faces are perfect....

There was a couple of cms of dust overnight

South faces soft as usual .....

Only day (saturdays) to ski if you have the luxury to choose... Very Happy

Help!!

The Arlberg Snow Report 2017/2018 (Mud Season May/June))

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