 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I've worked in French shops for years now and my colleagues are as mixed in their welcome and efficiency as anyone else in the world. They do all recognise with some shame the stereotype of the unfriendly Parisien waiter who will chase you down for a tip afterwards, and the snob of a sales girl who will look you up and down to see if you're worth spending time on, and the check out girl who talks to her colleagues instead of the client - I was witness to the exact conversation only two days ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
albinomountainbadger, yes, exactly the same sort of conversations that are heard from Brits about London/Londoners - you can find plenty of threads on that very topic on SH I'm sure 
I think I've said this on here before but, having now lived in France for a while, it's become automatic to smile and say hello to shop staff when I walk in and thank you/goodbye even if I haven't bought anything. I would never have done this before in shops where I was not a local/regular customer but I now even do it in the West End, where the first member of shop staff you'll encounter is probably a security guard; they will always smile and say hello back (and often look pleasantly surprised to have been acknowledged by a customer).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
If you didn't have a GF and tyou had to find somewhere to live you'd have to work ful time which would leave little time to ski.
|
Not so. I work full time and snowboard five afternoons out of six plus one full day a week. Anyone on split shifts or working bar can ski for the best part of every day.
This speculation about whether or not people can afford to do a season on SMIC is just silly - every resort you have ever visited is full of French people doing just that very thing. What did you think they were living on, fresh air? Those sh:t hot skiers/boarders you see out there are mostly saisonniers as well, and they're that good because they get time to put the hours in. Why do you imagine we'd all do it otherwise?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
If you didn't have a GF and tyou had to find somewhere to live you'd have to work ful time which would leave little time to ski.
|
Not so. I work full time and snowboard five afternoons out of six plus one full day a week. Anyone on split shifts or working bar can ski for the best part of every day.
This speculation about whether or not people can afford to do a season on SMIC is just silly - every resort you have ever visited is full of French people doing just that very thing. What did you think they were living on, fresh air? Those poo-poo hot skiers/boarders you see out there are mostly saisonners as well, and they're that good because they get time to put the hours in. Why do you imagine we'd all do it otherwise?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
This speculation about whether or not people can afford to do a season on SMIC is just silly
|
I don't think that's been suggested by anybody, though many have pointed out that people doing a season on SMIC are often better off than the TO employees.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| As for abrogation of human rights, that could be said of just about all employment law. |
"Unemployment law" might be more descriptive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[quote="Lizzard"]
| Quote: |
This speculation about whether or not people can afford to do a season on SMIC is just silly - every resort you have ever visited is full of French people doing just that very thing. What did you think they were living on, fresh air? Those sh:t hot skiers/boarders you see out there are mostly saisonniers as well, and they're that good because they get time to put the hours in. Why do you imagine we'd all do it otherwise? |
I'm with Lizzard on this, this thread has filled with the hearsay, speculation and arm chair experts talking waffle (me been polite)
If working a season for TO's is so god damn awful why do so many do it and do it more than once? Yes a number in my experience, less than 5% can not handle it but for everyone who sticks it the first few weeks enjoy it and come away with great memories.
Saying that TO's are taking the wee wee is not going to help when they go bust because your catered chalet holiday now costs 3 times as much as before and you will not pay that for your skiing.
Back on Topic - yes I think the French will now go after the TO's on employment law and yes they have every right to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've been a TO rep, assistant resort manager and hotel accountant so stand by every word
TO work is a great way to get out, but it doesn't allow you to stay out unless you're independently wealthy. If it was so profitable the the minimum wage staff from Luton TravelLodge would quit to do it, wouldn't they?
re Smic: most people on French contracts earn a lot more than the Smic because they are invariably paid overtime. Ok I appreciate Lizard might not be, but selling lift passes is almost like being a civil servant! The other jobs, such as hotel staff, bar staff etc will be paying staff on at least 39 hours a week. On a 44 hour contract for example, one is being paid very well indeed and will still have at least one or two full days to ski, not to mention long lunches and free accommodation on top...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
your catered chalet holiday now costs 3 times as much as before and you will not pay that for your skiing.
|
catered chalets aren't the be-all and end-all. In countries where there are very few (e.g. Italy, Austria) ski holidays don't cost any more than they do in France. And if you want to stay in France, there are plenty of French establishments which (presumably) stick broadly to the law and nonetheless manage to provide affordable holidays. French families have traditionally taken advantage of some of the "cheap and cheerful" versions, a kind of holiday camp, and of course Club Med pioneered the all-in concept more than half a century ago. There are also hotels (and there might be more, presumably, to fill a gap left by TO chalets) and any number of apartments to rent, at any level of rent/comfort. Even a small French resort will have excellent "traiteurs" for those who don't want to cook their own dinners (not to mention a range of restaurants).
I can't help feeling the world will continue to turn if British catered chalets are phased out. How have all those Belgian, German, Italian, French, etc etc etc skiers been managing all these years?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w, we had a couple of chalet holidays and enjoyed them both, but I did find the concept a little strange. Perhaps some of these chalets could be turned into Chambres d'Hotes instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
pam w, Hells Bells, I was recently in a hotel run à la Crystal et al "chalet hotel" in Austria. English owned, run and all the employees are Gap year types? Lovely staff but the owner his wife and daughter have absolutely no idea about service and a warm genuine welcome. All they are interested in is making as big a profit as possible with little effort. Queen Bee and I had to keep looking outside to remind ourselves we were in Austria and not at some downmarket club in the Shires! Food was not Austrian, although we did have a Thai themed evening one night. Presentation of the food was everything, taste and combination of textures was a disaster. Queen Bee as a vegetarian had no choice of meal and had rice every single evening as far as she can remember. It was during this holiday that "Breakfastgate" occurred, so much for solidarity amongst hoteliers!
I also finally came to understand what was meant by the "braying classes" - not a pleasant experience at breakfast or any other meal for that matter!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I enjoyed the chalet holidays I had, too - at the time it suited us particularly well because we didn't need to spend much extra money - a big breakfast, then a big chalet tea, meant we needed very little lunch and we didn't have to go out to expensive bars in the evening. Almost all the people we met were at least pleasant, and some were very interesting companions - I met several people I might never have got to know otherwise, including a dairy farmer in the midst of foot and mouth, his wife (a rural midwife) and an impressive group of ambulance people.
I disliked the "chalet hotel" we went to with snowcoach but it was an extraordinarily cheap holiday and we had 8 days skiing and 6 kids who stayed in a dorm room for next to nothing. Chalet hotels seem to me to embody the worst aspects of both chalets and hotels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
pam w, friends like the chalet hotels as they get free wine with dinner 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Chalet hotels seem to me to embody the worst aspects of both chalets and hotels. |
Excuse my ignorance...  What is a "chalet hotel"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
miranda, it's bigger than a chalet and looks like a hotel - with a bar etc. But it's run by seasonnaires and there is a limited choice menu. I've only stayed in a couple of chalet hotels in Courchevel and St Anton, both run by Mark Warner, nice enough, reasonable value for what I got. Oh and the PSB place in Tignes, which was cheap and cheerful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Pedantica, ah ok, thank you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
miranda, an apartment block with a chalet rep to 'cook and clean'* (*euphemism) your apartment.
Hells Bells, It's amazing how good pink vinegar tastes after the first 'free' pint.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Pedantica, there are 'grades' of chalet hotels . . . Ski Olympic ones are very nice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Masque, so I've heard. Actually the hotel used by MW in St Anton is very nice too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Pedantica, Spawn O'masque did a season at the Valandry one and highly rated it . . . and he's quite fussy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
miranda, I think the key point is that they are "hotel sized" but peopled entirely by clients brought in by the TO. One think I disliked intensely about the one I stayed at was the "school canteen" way it worked in the evening. Dinner was at, say, 8 pm. We were with friends, some teenagers and some littler kids who had an early children's tea. The four of us got into the habit of having a gin and tonic in the lounge place, by the fire, before dinner, which was very civilised but invariably meant that we got to the dining room after everybody else, who had been queueing up outside the locked dining room doors till let in. There were a number of quite large, noisy and cliquey groups who would then spread themselves over all the tables (which were all refectory style) and as often as not we'd then have to split up to find places. which would have been OK if the people on the tables hadn't all been part of cliquey groups.... And the food was not good - always had decent food in smaller chalets, sometimes very good food.
I refused to spend the last ten minutes before dinner queuing and jostling outside the dining room doors. The kids had wanted to use the hot tub (can't think why - nasty yucky things) but complained that it was monopolised by some "rude noisy fat kids" who also spent a fair bit of time running up and down the stairs, being badly behaved. I frequently wanted to clip them round the ear. 
In small chalets (typically 12 - 16 guests) we never encountered anything like that. Met plenty of pleasant, civilized, interesting people who had the good manners to ensure nobody was excluded. We did encounter one group of 3 who asked to have their own separate table - which suited us all, as they definitely felt they were a cut above us all, and kept telling us they'd come First Class on Eurostar. They asked how we'd got there (which in our case was by cheapo overnight sleeper from Paris) but I told them that although we'd had 7 hours or so to kill in Paris that had given us the chance to go and have tea with my friend, the British Ambassador. They spent the rest of the week wondering whether to believe me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
