gatecrasher, but you're standing on a flat surface with no outside forces acting against you if doing it in dry land,
Pressing down on one foot and reducing the pressure on the other also puts your body un angulated if not careful leading to using the new inside ski to support ones weight,
During the transition most of the force is forward momentum, so would "feel" like a flat surface, well it does to me anyway.
Yes you need to angulate a small amount otherwise as you say you will end up with weight on the inside ski when doing the drill, in essence what you would do at slow speeds when learning. To add it is only to get the feel for the movement and to understand how the pedal move creates the mechanical action. Doing this action on a flat surface on dry land gives you a visual understanding of the move, so for the green run that the op was on, you could replicate the move starting straight down the falline, equal weight on both skis, gradually pressure one reduce/soften the other, the knees/hips start to go in, you balance your upper body against the pressure of the outside ski, once you have a solid gripping platform you can then apply more pressure and reduction, long leg short leg and continue to increase the edge angles, your upper body always balancing to maintain pressure over the outside ski, when you want to start the next transition, you just repeat the same process again on opposite legs.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Huckacliff duckabranch, you are correct, the initiation is flatten both skis, then edge both and move the weight to the new outside ski and then stand on it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
gatecrasher, the fundamentals are all the same though, the turn initiation needs to be started by something other than a push off from an already set edge, the edge needs un setting before anything else or so I've been taught, maybe I've been taught wrong,
Also would Kitenski not have passed the exam if he'd have displayed a cross under turn with high gripping edge angles before the fall line?
Interesting ski geek stuff as I think we are talking about subtle adjustments which make all the difference. My humble perception when behind a pro is that as you extend to release the pressure from the old turn there is a subtle simultaneous roll of the ankles down the hill to flatten the skis, a momentary pause to ensure the skis are flat and you are balanced, then the new turn is initiated by standing on the ball of the foot and driving the outside hip forward and across?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Go to race club; go and ski gates will teach carving and range of turns
Cynic, His local race club doesn't really take adults.
In the past they have let the trainee instructors from the slope join in so there is no harm in asking.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski wrote:
Huckacliff duckabranch, you are correct, the initiation is flatten both skis, then edge both and move the weight to the new outside ski and then stand on it.
Is that what that basi instructor said?
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher, I kinda disagree. They are different but the way I get edge to edge has similarities to sucking up a roller. Obviously carving has much more edge play going on but the 'pop' you get coming out of the compression on the turn has to be controlled in the same way that the 'pop' off the top of a roller needs to be absorbed. The pedalling thing I just don't get. I follow the 'two movements' approach I suggested above and it seems to work for me as I time the second movement to edge and hold round the turn, my hips are already over but the skis are flat and evenly weighted until the second phase so it's like falling onto a rail that tracks you round and spits you out. I'm aiming at long, fast, GS style turns - I'm not aiming at swift edge to edge carving so maybe that's why it works for me. I also keep a rigid/static body posture with max bent knees and close hands in the turn which I also find helps keep the edge on - I don't flap around.
Huckacliff duckabranch makes a lot of sense from my POV/experience.
kitenski, the 'planting' I was refering to above meant pole plant. I'd stick it back in, I don't think that's causing you to 'fade' the turn and it's a good mental prop to key you at which point to go on edge. From what I can see you are not 'selling' the transition to the examiners enough because you are not rising and falling enough in the turn.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
RattytheSnowRat, what do you mean by rising and falling? Basi don't want any pop or vertical movement, the head shouldn't rise between turns.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Huckacliff duckabranch, I do see what you are trying to say about pushing off from a set edge but in reality I really don't think you would just carry on going in the same direction on that edge without doing quite a bit to keep your centre in balance with the angle of the slope , what I'm taking about is an easy way to learn the initiation & transition which will provide support going into the new turn, I don't think you have been taught wrong, there is more than one way to make turns "once you have the feel" of going from one set of locked edges to another. I feel a definite press/extension off my umm!..short leg with a simultaneous softening of the other at initiation... cross over type feeling on long turns, We both "could" just roll the edges into a new turn if we wanted to because we can anticipate the point our skis will bite because we have done it countless times, but when you are trying to learn the feel for the first time, doing it just by rolling both knees etc. then pressuring can leave an unnerving amount of time to find support and balance, "enough time to bail and turn the skis!"
RattytheSnowRat, no worries... I just think a cross over turn would be easier to learn in first instance!?
Or just do as Cynic, says, that will also work.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
kitenski wrote:
Huckacliff duckabranch, you are correct, the initiation is flatten both skis, then edge both and move the weight to the new outside ski and then stand on it.
Not quite in my mind, to think about flattening the skis as a separate process is installing a dead spot in the turn. Initiation should be by relaxing the outside leg which allows the hips to start moving across your feet. It's at the point when you feel the skis flat on the snow is when pressure through extension is applied to what was the uphill ski. The edge change movement is a smooth rolling process, it's not feeling the old edges, than flatten skis, then change to new edges. The moment when the skis are flat on the snow is but a fraction of a second.
As I posted on the previous page, get used to feeling for this momentary process and decide whether both the skis are flat on the snow simultaneously or sequentially, simultaneous is what your looking for.
Apply pressure to old uphill ski at the precise moment that you feel the skis are flat during the rolling edge change, that way by the time the extension movement has time to influence the ski the skis would have gone beyond being flat and already tilted onto their new edge.
Consistently apply pressure until the fall line, after which you'll need flexion to absorb and control pressure.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kitenski, it's sort of what Huckacliff duckabranch, and I have been saying. If you think about great technical mogul riding it's exactly the same - zero head movement relative to the mean slope. I was confusing when I said 'rising and falling' without context - sorry about that - but no head movement does not mean no leg contraction and extension. If you were concentrating on that then it's no wonder that you were having 'issues'. The control of the 'pop' is key but I deal with that in the same way I'd hit a mogul - as stated above. I'll button up and bow out now - there are many more enlightened individuals here who I am sure will assist better than I. Good luck with the whole BASI thing!
gatecrasher, I am sure you are 100% correct.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
[quote="gatecrasher"]Huckacliff duckabranch,
**We both "could" just roll the edges into a new turn if we wanted to because we can anticipate the point our skis will bite because we have done it countless times,**
I wouldn't want to just roll the edges and anticipate though, this is the ski dictating the point of bite, I want to control the ski and make it bite when I want and need it to,
It's just my view and I'm far from the skier I wish to be and there's plenty of better skiers on the mountain than me.
Is there any instructors reading the thread that agree or disagree with my view?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Huckacliff duckabranch, fair enough!
RattytheSnowRat, thanks but have an awful suspicion I'm going to be told otherwise!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
So in answer to my original question..
yes
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
feef, What was the question?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
seeing as I completely steam roller-ed feef, s thread, I may as well carry on
Starting to get some angles now....
Dodgy capture from video in poor light at the end of the day excuse for quality
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski, looking promising... can you stick up the video so i can have a look at your transitions? what sort of pitch was that on? looks pretty flat but could be camera angle
You look to be overflexing at the knee and got caught too low, try to hold a longer outside leg.. from what i can see on the first turn at 05 the transition looks a lot lot better well done
Watching some video with a friendly trainer about someone else who missed his L2 longs he made a good point in that at L2 he is looking to always see the skis parallel. before you tended to heel push at the transition and the skis would stem.. keep that transition clean and generate those big angles and you will have cracked it....
actually remember we did one on the red back to the bottom on the first day, one above was 2nd day.....not sure this as clean but you can see the transitions etc etc
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski, good work, much improved upper body position allowing you to get over your outside ski & more sagittal separation of your feet giving you the chance of bigger angles, great to see the improvement.
After all it is free
After all it is free
gatecrasher wrote:
more sagittal separation of your feet
any chance of a translation into English
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Vertical distance change between your feet, "pedalling" press one....soften other.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
gatecrasher, ta
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks to kitenski's tale of woe I found myself trying better carving (on entirely inappropriate kit) whenever I found myself on a groomer on my recent trip - I found one magic thing that really helped. I now have 2 magic things, once I find a third I'll have a methodology and make £££s from my "Secret to skiing" guru status.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Is it me, or was that franzClammer, going by in kitenskis, second vid about 4 seconds in "in white"
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Like the OP I'm also thinking of doing the BASI Level 1 to improve my skiing and would prefer to do it in the mountains. It's a week off work anyway so I feel I may as well be in the mountains, my happy place.
I see ICE have a course in April, but can anyone recommend anyone else - no reflection on ICE but having a few choices of dates would help in organising it.
Skis - what would anyone recommend? I have quite a quiver, but I don't think the fat boys would do and the stockli sc's with vist race plate are pretty stiff. Good for hooping around, but i think i may find it easier on a softer piste ski? I was thinking the head supershape (red one) or head supershape magnums might be a better bet?
Any feedback or advice appreciated, it may help feef also!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
magnums
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Does anyone know if Ellis Brigham (or any shop stocking the Head Magnums) does a european price match like Snow and Rock. The cheapest places i have found them are Bittl and XSPO, both within a € one delivery to the UK is factored in. I'll probably use XSPO as they have an english version of the website, but if any Snowheads have had bad experiences please let me know.
I'd ski a proper slalom ski in 165 (or if i'm stealing the wife's shorter) but i'm thinking of 170 in these. Any thoughts skimottaret?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mt, SL skis would be fine for the course but if you are buying skis and using them on a course in the alps I would suggest the magnums would be better all rounders. length really depends on your build...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski - getting better (from when I saw it last for sure!). Work the lower leg angles more for longer otherwise you could be in danger of just parking and riding!!!!!!!! Yes there was a sag split floating around there but that is probably the 'leftovers' in your mind of being told to create and do more with the skis. Soften the inside leg and stretch the new outer leg should help!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Booked with ICE in Val for week April 15th April, but not enough booked yet.
I really hope it goes ahead so are there any snowheads out there who are thinking about it?
When I was thinking about this I'd done three weeks skiing already and it was the only the beginning of the season. Since then I've only had one more day on skis, off the back of Ilkley moor, and I'm getting nervous. The plans I had for the season meant it wasn't supposed to be this way, but that's how it is. I'm still keen and love to do it so I'm wondering if anyone SH fancies chancing there arm at Basi 1!! At the worst it will be a great weeks instruction.
Mt, If it doesn't go ahead you can always do it back in the UK in a Snowdome. My daughter did hers last summer in Hemel. Originally we were going to go to Hintertux but that didn't go ahead because of lack of numbers. I think more people take L1 in the UK, there were about 5 courses in Hemel the week she took hers (Alpine/Snowboarding/Adaptive).
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
