 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rayscoops,Frosty the Snowman, well spotted, in both cases! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nail. Head.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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By the way, much of the thrust of the argument as to whether nix's offer should be allowed hinges on whether it's a job offer, or a sale, or some other slippery legal term. I posted this on last season's corresponding thread, and I think it's still extremely pertinent this year.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=52565&start=480#1297385
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cripes, a sudden attack of agreement has broken out. How did that happen?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Group hug anyone?
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| Quote: |
in Nixmaps' thread, the actual commercial gain is negligable
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we don't know what the commercial gain is. It is the difference between employing someone to do that work, paying tax, national insurance etc and the opportunity cost of the accommodation. We don't know what either sum is. So the gain might be negligible, or it might be quite significant. Guesswork.
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Free nixmap!
Didn't we recently have a thread from an appartment owner offering free accomodation if a decorator/electrician etc put in some time to help do it up?
How is that any different....I didn't see nbt's holier than thou attitude on that thread.
As for advertising requireing payment?
ARE YOU JOKING???
To be clear I have nothing at all but good wisher to rob@rar and Skimotteret but have a look at their threads....a semi CONSTANT stream of (unpaid) advertising for their ski instruction business. Not couched in obtuse language, but very direct and specific advertising for Inside-Out trips etc (and good luck to them!).
So:
Free nixmap and less of the double standards.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rungsp wrote: |
| To be clear I have nothing at all but good wisher to rob@rar and Skimotteret but have a look at their threads....a semi CONSTANT stream of (unpaid) advertising for their ski instruction business. Not couched in obtuse language, but very direct and specific advertising for Inside-Out trips etc (and good luck to them!). |
It's not unpaid.
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| Quote: |
Didn't we recently have a thread from an appartment owner offering free accomodation if a decorator/electrician etc put in some time to help do it up?
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IIRC we had a thread in which someone reported an offer of that sort (from someone met on an aeroplane?) and most of the people who commented agreed it was probably a scam.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
in Nixmaps' thread, the actual commercial gain is negligable
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we don't know what the commercial gain is. It is the difference between employing someone to do that work, paying tax, national insurance etc and the opportunity cost of the accommodation. We don't know what either sum is. So the gain might be negligible, or it might be quite significant. Guesswork. |
That pre supposes I would want a commercial solution. Such a solution would change the nature of the relationship, Which I happen to value for its own merits, and I think the feeling was mutual.
Have you considered that it might not actually be about money for either side.
Two sets of keen skiers helping eachother get more skiing and R&R time and having a great time in the process.
What could be more suitable than a Ski Forum to make that match.
The nature of people helping each other out, is that there is some give and take on both sides, which is sometimes a quality we all sometimes lack.
What surprises me is senseless bickering, detailed monetizeing, membership inequaltity, on what is essentially a free forum exactly designed to bring people together with a common goal.
If you go back to the roots of this forum, isnt this some of what you intended to escape from.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| rungsp wrote: |
| To be clear I have nothing at all but good wisher to rob@rar and Skimotteret but have a look at their threads....a semi CONSTANT stream of (unpaid) advertising for their ski instruction business. Not couched in obtuse language, but very direct and specific advertising for Inside-Out trips etc (and good luck to them!). |
It's not unpaid. |
| Hurtle wrote: |
BCjohnny,
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There are obviously quite of few people on here who actually benefit directly in cash renumeration, because their faces fit.
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I ask again - rayscoops didn't answer the same question which I posed, either here or on one of the other threads - how is this 'obvious'? How do you know who actually pays what to snowHeads, and what for? Are you privy to the deals done with admin? |
Ha. QED. Thank you.
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| nixmap wrote: |
What surprises me is senseless bickering, detailed monetizeing, membership inequaltity, on what is essentially a free forum exactly designed to bring people together with a common goal.
If you go back to the roots of this forum, isnt this some of what you intended to escape from. |
Ooh nice one. Better fluff the popcorn on this.
Commonality of goals in internet "communities" as well? Unpossible I say.
Some want a club where they hang with mates and soon to be mates
Some want a direct transactional benefit being help on a decision or a commercial or personal gain be it on a purchase or sale
Some believe its all one happy family aspiring to some greater goal
Some just like pushing buttons (literally or metaphorically)
Some like to brag
Some like to share
Some like to argue for argument's sake
Many "regulars" wil do all of the above
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You know it makes sense.
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| brian wrote: |
| I was offering myself as an example of someone who's not "in the gang", never been to a bash/bbq/whatever, don't pay anything to be here but have never had any objections to my 1 line sig. |
Good, and good luck with the microdot. I forgot how much info you could pack into one............. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
BCjohnny,
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There are obviously quite of few people on here who actually benefit directly in cash renumeration, because their faces fit.
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I ask again - rayscoops didn't answer the same question which I posed, either here or on one of the other threads - how is this 'obvious'? How do you know who actually pays what to snowHeads, and what for? Are you privy to the deals done with admin? I recently heard of a snowHead who was making quite substantial payments and that case alone didn't seem to me to be at all 'obvious.' |
I'm assuming, and this is aimed mainly at the people on here promoting either snowsport related accomodation, or services (which, again, I personally have absolutely no problem with) that they have benefitted directly as a result on the links posted. In fact I know they have, having seen thanks posted here, to that effect.
I am privy to no details, and besides, would pay no consideration to heresay anyway.
For me, anyone can put their bottom up here, with a for sale sign on it, and the very best of luck to them. It's just as a "neutral" outsider, the deciding of who's bottom gets smacked, just makes me smile, somtimes. But then again, maybe not.
And yes, it is getting a touch sanctimonious.
p.s. Hope the spelling's ok 
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Poster: A snowHead
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BCjohnny, I think that admin has put nofollow on signature links - and if any sH is prepared to hunt down a . in a signature I guess they would have found the information anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| achilles wrote: |
| BCjohnny, I think that admin has put nofollow on signature links - and if any sH is prepared to hunt down a . in a signature I guess they would have found the information anyway. |
Oh, Ok, didn't click on it anyway (slacker.......), just reminded me of all the '70's spy stuff.
So now all the animals are equal, and sH's takes a percentage, as required.
Exactly as it should be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| nixmap wrote: |
What surprises me is senseless bickering, detailed monetizeing, membership inequaltity, on what is essentially a free forum exactly designed to bring people together with a common goal.
If you go back to the roots of this forum, isnt this some of what you intended to escape from. |
Ooh nice one. Better fluff the popcorn on this.
Commonality of goals in internet "communities" as well? Unpossible I say.
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by common goal I meant, people who "Love snow, Live snow, Eat snow" oh, and sell curtains of course!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BCjohnny, the point I was making related not to the assumption that a benefit is accruing, but rather the assumption that nothing has been paid for the right to advertise. It has already been shown on another thread* that such assumptions are not always well founded. Those who have paid do not, as you will agree, deserve to get their bottoms smacked.
Since you ask: there are several spelling mistakes in your post. 
*Edit: sorry, shown on this thread.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why is Nixmaps thread any different to those asking for advice in setting up their business, checking out their new website etc? IIRC there's someone in the aprez asking for advice and he's got 2 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It is different Im not even running a business, Im just helping me and others get more skiing time in one way or another.
Some snowheads had simply lost their way.
Whats wrong wiith asking people if they want to come come skiing for the season and help out on the weekends.
Its not even vaguely commercial, the fact that this is on more that one free forum has nothing to do with anything, why shouldnt I post on 10 free forums.
I dont have an issue with valid debate over the value proposition
But the "this is and advert" nay sayers just need to get over it.
As for the mods with clear adverts on the sigs saying that Im commercial ! Thats just duplicity cubed, which either reflects blatant favouritism or incredibly poor judgement. Either way I think theres a strong case for respectfully requesting that those priviledges be removed in such individuals, not permanently, but at least until better judgment can be demonstrated.
Nix.
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| nixmap wrote: |
It is different Im not even running a business, Im just helping me and others get more skiing time in one way or another.
Some snowheads had simply lost their way.
Whats wrong wiith asking people if they want to come come skiing for the season and help out on the weekends.
Its not even vaguely commercial, the fact that this is on more that one free forum has nothing to do with anything, why shouldnt I post on 10 free forums.
I dont have an issue with valid debate over the value proposition
But the "this is and advert" nay sayers just need to get over it.
As for the mods with clear adverts on the sigs saying that Im commercial ! Thats just duplicity cubed, which either reflects blatant favouritism or incredibly poor judgement. Either way I think theres a strong case for respectfully requesting that those priviledges be removed in such individuals, not permanently, but at least until better judgment can be demonstrated.
Nix. |
Right that's enough. I'm afraid the poor judgement is yours.
You are right out of order criticising the moderators in this way. Each one of them has voluntarily put 1000 times more into snowHeads than I expect you ever will, given your record until now.
You were allowed to run your ad the past two years unimpeded, yet rather than show the slightest hint of gratitude for the privilege, you behave now as if it's your right - it isn't!
You pay lip service to community spirit insofar as it suits your agenda yet don't even lift a finger to let us know how it all went?
Yes, you could have subscribed, it's always an option, or perhaps you could have got your indentured man to post a few snow reports from time to time or maybe you could have done so yourself? No, you got what you wanted and remain coy about it all, 'cagey' even.
Others have found staff through snowHeads and made a donation by way of a finders fee (they're aware they'd have had to pay anywhere else).
Commercial or not, you are advertising for staff even if you plan to get away without paying them a wage.
Whether we allow such posts is borderline (hence the clear division of opinion amongst the members) and cases are considered individually. This can take a little time. It was perfectly reasonable for nbt to remove the topic for consideration and he communicated clearly and courteously in the process as is typical of him.
The continuing matter would have been far better dealt with via PM. Your response has been generally antagonistic in character, at times rude to the point of aggressive and the manner in which you started this topic was IMV disingenuous. I know some very well run forums where you'd get a ban for this. At the very least you owe nbt an apology.
When I first got your PM, I honestly didn't feel particularly strongly either way; I have no issue with the nature of the arrangement itself and might easily have been persuaded to reinstate the topic but the ensuing attitude frankly gives me cause to regret that we gave you the latitude we did in the past.
Maybe I just don't get your sense of humour or maybe you just don't get where the line is? Either way I think you'll find a selection of candidates more attuned to your demeanour amongst the maggots of TGR - good luck!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ban nixmap
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"Pimp my glass"..............Class.
Bit more seemly than my "Pimp my ass" suggestion.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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admin, well said. Balanced and fair verdict, IMHO.
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Regardless whether fair or not admin, gets the final say. Nice to see him supporting his Mod so well though - a crappy job at times
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You know it makes sense.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Regardless whether fair or not admin, gets the final say. Nice to see him supporting his Mod so well though - a crappy job at times |
Hear, hear.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hurtle,
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Poster: A snowHead
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Think I'll take a break from here for a while.
Nothing to do with admin's decision. he's the boss on here but with the attitude of a lot of the posters, In my mind I could not cross the street to wee wee on you if you were on fire.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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brian
brian
Guest
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| Dwarf Vader wrote: |
| I could not cross the street to wee wee on you if you were on fire. |
No worries, I'm sure nixmap could rustle up a lackey to do the honours. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Admin alway is the boss and its his forum so clearly what he says goes - I'm completely in favour of Admin being 'he that has the over-riding ruling', its his forum, so what he says goes and we all benefit from him being willing to run SH for us. As he notes there is a division of opinion as the issue started off, at least, on the cusp of what is permissable.
I'm interested in the reasoning here though, so a few questions
1. What I am unaware of is do the people with chalets on SH that, for example, pop their links into the signatures pay for the privilage of promoting their accommodation in this way? Straight, yes or no will do, I'm not interested in anyone's financial arrangements. IIRC there is a thread isn't there where people can post their chalet accommodation isn't there? Does this need to be paid for? Is this where nixmap should have made his posting?
2. Is there any difference in handing over money for accommodation and working for your accommodation? I know there may be legal issues if anyone is seen as being employed, but this situation sounded more like 'bartering' work for accommodation. Bartering would work for me as a solution for getting to stay in a ski resort esp. if I was short of cash.
I am genuinely puzzled as to the problem with the situation that nixmap proposed. I appreciate I could be missing loads here, and would welcome a gentle guide (emotional outbursts left to one side) as to what was wrong with the initial proposal.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| I was thinking more of the sort of snowHead who people suspect doesn't pay because 'his face fits.' |
Apologies for dragging this back, but missed this, and purely for the sake of clarity.........
Sorry, never actually said, or inferred, that.
Indeed in the same post "mates rates, or whatever" was also mentioned.
I now take the 5th amendment (re: constitution as according to rayscoops, sub-section 3, paragraph 09.19)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, you could always read the threads - you'll find the answers to your questions in them, if sometimes subjectively and/or over-vehemently expressed. You'll not need to consult the old threads, the current ones will do.
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Megamum, use the forum search tool, search for threads with nixmap as author. Look at the last to seasons' threads. I would have thought you would have done that, but from your questions I guess not.
Dwarf Vader, the feeling is not mutual - I rate you. I think the problem is communication by internet. Not enough subtlety of expression - ans sometimes too many words required for easy expression.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Megamum,
1.
- no
- a whole forum (the title "Chalets and Apartments" is a bit of a giveaway)
- no
- arguably
2. There's a difference between paying for accommodation and a job where live-in accommodation is provided. Normally, that's part of the package rather than being the whole package.
As a relatively dispassionate observer, the debate boils down to whether or not you think the accommodation provided is worth all the work required. Those on the pronix side would say that you're getting a big apartment and partial use of a chalet which is worth quite a lot. The antinix side would probably reply, so what, that's more accommodation than is actually of practical use to most people and you'd be better off with a season pass, food or cold, hard cash.
Personally, the nixer strikes me as an arrogant, tight git that I'd happily pay to avoid but I wouldn't ban the threads or have any issue with him posting. Well apart from that there's the possibility that somebody terminally naive will sign up for the deal and be taken for a total mug.
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Megamum, Like it or not this isn't a democracy. admin's house ,his rules and the griping that goes on when he and the mods take a decision or action on something is one of the more unpleasant aspects of the forum.
As a relatively high traffic snowsports site shs of course catches the eyes of certain commercial interests who see it as good way of engaging with a potential customer base. So a degree of discipline is needed to stop an overrun of unsubtle spamming. Mods are pretty good and do a thankless task at preventing most of us ever seeing it. Occasionally someone will call out a commercial poster in a thread and if they are the argumentative type they'll start bleating about "how come X is allowed to advertise in their sig and I'm not?". I think the balance is fairly good here and I suspect that established posters do get a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than newbies. This seems fair enough to me, if you've put more in to the community as a whole then at the least you've accrued more "goodwill" than a newbie.
Other forums handle ill-judged newcomers far more aggressively, there is no need for mods on TGR because of the flaming spammers get. On Epic for example you have to be a paid up member to be able to advertise your old kit for sale even, which is definitely not the case here.
As for mr map, his offering seems borderline to me at best, if his offer was one made to fellow pub regulars over a drink for instance then it might count as a genuine "mates' exchange". However he came to shs originally specifically to promote the "deal", has largely returned only periodically to pursue the same agenda and this year has blotted his copybook somewhat by a fair amount of whining, vastly inflated by the usual midsummer madness of those lunatic enough to be spending time on a ski forum when the temperature is hitting the 30s outside. I quite like his style personally but I'm not going to be organising a "Free Nixmap?" tribute single or t shirt. If the offer was from a longstanding snowhead for someone to stay with them and help paint their appartment in the evenings it would clearly seem to be one side of the line, a permanent offer of free accomodation in exchange for labour by someone with a trade in decorating ski appartments would clearly seem to be on the other.
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FAQ
