 Poster: A snowHead
|
A scanner costs peanuts (we must have 2 dozen around our building acting as door entry systems). Likewise, a chip costs even less peanuts (we are probably talking pence). Additionally they can easily be up to the rigors of skiing.... these things can be really tiny, tiny things are hard to exert destructive forces on! All you need then is a database with lists of chip and whether the ski has been stolen. Then anytime a ski comes in for work, it gets scanned. If it is kosher, fine, if not, the matter gets reported to the police.
In no way would that be expensive or difficult. Of course it wouldnt be all encompassing either, but it would be a start. The ideal way is that you are scanned at lifts and such likes, but this s firstly not going to be cheap and easy and second...... well although I am very much in favour of tagging people to record movements and (criminal?) activities, most of the population seems to consider this a breach of their freedom..... to have an all encompassing system for ski hardware would probably cause uproar.
ad
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
The problem with all this is you're expecting the shops/lifts/ski manufacturers do a whole lot of work for a tiny, tiny minority of people. I have no idea what the figures are, but the number of people who get skis/boards stolen each year would probably struggle to make it to 1% of the number who go to the mountains. What's in it for the shops, truly? Skis get stolen, insurance pays out, skiier buys new skis from, yep, the shop... so I ask again, what's in it for the shop?
Granted the technology is simple as you like, but the incentive to do it is not there. It doesn't benefit the people who need to invest, so they're never going to do it - simple economics.
If these things were being done "properly" then we'd have some kind of barcode system on car tax disks and a scanner on every petrol pump so you needed a valid tax disk to get fuel... that'd bring in a few quid for the treasury... or maybe make it compulsory to fit tracking units in EVERY car, thus pretty much eradicating speeding and car theft overnight, or fit all under-18's with locked wristband GPS transmitters so we could know where kids are all the time stopping many abductions or leading to prosecution of teenage vandals because we KNEW where they were... All of the above benefit the "investor" in technology far more than the ski-shop scanner... but none of 'em will ever happen 'coz we're too busy looking after criminals and their civil rights...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
buns, components are cheap, systems are expensive. For this system to work effectively, it has to have high reliability, tamper-resistance and ubiquity, all of which add to the system costs and the project risks.
Low-tech point solutions have been suggested on this thread, such as locks, defacing, marking and alarms. I think these are more practical.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
A simpler and better solution than chipping would be to stop the skis getting pinched in the first place. And what chance is there of setting up a sophisticated system using chips when 99%+ of cars (more expensive even than skis) are not electronically traceable if nicked?
Plenty of decent racks at bars and so on and decent ski locks readily available would be a start; not perfect, but I'll bet that that the incidence of theft of locked skis is a lot lower than of unlocked. It might even be possible to have at least occasional visits to storage areas by cops or someone else prepared to challenge people who look as if they are trying to take skis which aren't theirs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
richmond, I suspect you're right. Even mobile phones are still being stolen left, right and centre and they're supposed to be automatically disabled after theft aren't they? (don't own one, don't know).
I can cycle around town with a good D lock and cable to loop the wheels to the frame, and I feel the bike is pretty secure (though someone will probably nick the saddle in due course) so - yes - locked-up skis are definitely the way forward. Just buy a reasonably long cycle cable lock and stow it in a daypack.
Then you can enjoy a mountain restaurant stop with peace of mind, not to mention not having to trust the security of ski rooms at night.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Pointing to other situations (cars/mobiles/whatever) is pretty muc pointless..... the reason the systems are not in place are because of the population being unwilling to have their activities known. Why dont we have real time car tracking systems? Because it is too complicated and expensive? No. It is because (guess) 95% of those on the roads frequently break speed limits, run red lights etc and know such a system will result in their being caught.
All the same, Richmond is correct that stopping the theft in the first place is what is needed..... I did ask on a thread elsewhere why people simply didnt lock their skis to stop them getting pinched..... no one saw fit to reply.
Certainly, I now have a lock and will be locking mine.
Ad
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If we're going to go 'high-tech' here surely we should take it all the way:
Special 'chipped' bindings that only corrolate with your 'chipped' boots. Et voila, only your specific boot / binding combo will work, leaving the theaving scum to walk back down the mountain while we ski past throwing showballs at their faces (perhaps with a little grit in them).....
Sir Clive Sinclair eat your heart out! So, how about every snowhead chips in €100 and we get this thing up and running. This time next year Rodders, we'll be millionaires.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Except, how do you sell a pair of skis which only work with your boots! 
ad
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I'd like an alarm system.
A short range RF transmitter that would discreetly alert me if the skis are moved - a cable lock incorporating the sensor wire so that when it is cut the alarm transmits. This should be immune from someone accidentally knocking your skis over.
I'd like this for my bicycle as well, only I'd have a motion sensor as well for that, for when the thieving b@stards remove the handlebar bolt.
I'd build it myself but my success with RF stuff has been low.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm no RF expert, but I'm pretty sure that RF would struggle to transmit reliably much beyond 10 metres without pretty significant power! You might need to lug a car battery around with you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
carled, your mobile phone doesn't need a car battery. Maybe you get your lock to send you a text message "help ... thieving b@st@rd !!!". I expect the response time would be just a little too long though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| carled, your mobile phone doesn't need a car battery. Maybe you get your lock to send you a text message "help ... thieving b@st@rd !!!". I expect the response time would be just a little too long though. |
Beepbeep, beepbeep. Ooh, I've got a text message, I wonder who it's from? Oh it's my skis saying they've been nicked, quick let's all run outside and watch whilst I reply to the message. OK, 335332228, send. Right kids, look out for someone about to get launched and pass me my snow shovel, someones gonna get some learnin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
FenlandSkier, like it 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
My mountain bike ihas a datatag which , if the bike is stolen ,and then recovered , can be scanned to restore the bike to the registered owner. The key there is ''recovered'' , I guess most stolen skis aren't. (And, I suspect, most stolen bikes)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
FenlandSkier, Actually you've sort of triggered a thought there... which may have already been mentioned, sorry, but anyway...
You know in electrical (and diy stores on power tools) stores they have the linked cable - once the link is broken... beepbeepbeepbeepbeep.... piercing loud alarm. Now THAT wouldn't be too hard to power. Small personal attack alarm type thingies - my wife has one and it's utterly piercing! Hang on - look at http://westx.net/alarm.htm for an idea! 9v battery, 120db!!! That's chuffing loud! Adapt that slightly, build it so that the alarm sounds if circuit broken, provide key to set/unset trigger and bob's your uncle.
Now, I would think that your average thief is going to be "touching cloth" when a 120db alarm goes off and he's standing there with a broken/cut cable in his hand...
OK, who knows an investor? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
What's the phrase? "Prevention is better than cure" ? Surely the whole point is to stop the bloody toe-rags swiping your skis in the first place, rather than trying to recover your skis post-nicking?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
carled, I am going out tomorrow to buy a lock. We already split our skis at lunchtime, there are four of us, so if we mix round the group it's usually OK. However, my insurance says they should be locked to racks 'if available' ,so I'll get a lock.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I think that earlier on in this thread it was established that ski switching didn't work... It can't harm though. Just make it as inconvenient as possible and hopefully you'll put off any potential ski-snatchers! Don't use up all the snow in Serre Che, will you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Carl,we'll try not to. Not had any problems with stolen skis before, but there's always a first time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| carled wrote: |
FenlandSkier, Actually you've sort of triggered a thought there... which may have already been mentioned, sorry, but anyway...
You know in electrical (and diy stores on power tools) stores they have the linked cable - once the link is broken... beepbeepbeepbeepbeep.... piercing loud alarm./ |
You can get similar things for kids that work the same but are wireless. the idea is that if the sprog starts wandering off in a shopping centre or wherever then your beeper starts going off and so does theirs so you can be swiftly reunited. I suppose they might have a use if you lose a ski in powder as well, walk away and it starts beeping at you.
It still relies on the user doing something proactively when leaving the skis (and you couldn't go further than the trigger range of course) so you may as well stick with the conventional chain & lock.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
carled, the lock / alarm you link to has the problem of a movement sensor. Skis in a rack or on the ground get innocently knocked far too often so there would be embarrassing false alarms. For a RF transmitter, 500mW (i.e. a PRM radio) has a range of up to 5km. 50m would be more than enough, and that power wouldn't have to be continuous, just for a short alarm period.
Tony Ellwood, the trouble with booby trap devices would be getting them past airport security  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've been given one of those cable locks with a motion sensor by work to secure my laptop... might take it with me on next ski trip!
Don't need to activate the motion sensor every time - but it is good - if you knock it, it gives you a warning beep, if it continues to move the alarm goes off. So I think if someone knocked the skis, but then they stopped moving it wouldn't activate, only if the sensor was kept moving all the time. And the alarm is supposed to trigger if the cable is cut. Its a bit bulky but worth it - if it was good gear.
(Just need to get it off my mate who took it to Oz last month!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Pete Horn, Usually with those sorts of things u can specifiy if that is turned on or not, unfortuntately there aren't any details on the site.
carled, looks like a great idea, if the wire is cut the alarm works............simple but very effective! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
You know what would be better than all this chip-embedding nonsense on skis? Binding manufacturers need to incorporate a high-tensile steel "hole" or loop at the back of the bindings somewhere that will allow a cable to be threaded through a set of skis or even several sets of skis. At the moment, there isn't really anywhere on skis or bindings to attach the cable without leaving it easy for a thief to just slide the skis/board out. Snowboard bindings do at least tend to offer a closed loop somewhere on them to allow the cable to be looped through.
Also, again for binding manufacturers. Wouldn't it be pretty damn easy to incorporate a key into the back binding mechanism that allowed it to be locked "open" so that without the key, no-one could stamp their boot down into the binding. You get to the cafe or restaurant, pop your bindings open then lock them "open" with your key thus rendering them useless to a thief.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would'nt use a conventional key in a binding, to great a chance for the slot to fill with frozen snow, though maybe a magnetic key device could be used, but the trouble is that there are always master keys and someone will probably get hold of one who's not supposed to. A hole for a lock is not a bad idea though
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
FenlandSkier,
"Deledabbu"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Strange... I make it "deledaba?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
Strange... I make it "deledaba?"
|
How can the number 8 key at the end return an "a" ???
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
hyweljenkins, That's what you get for predictive text messaging! I'd prefer 3 7777 8 2 0 555 2 0 888 444 7777 8 2 0 22 2 22 999!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
How can the number 8 key at the end return an "a" ???
|
it doesn't: that's when the "?" pops up because apparently "deledaba" is a real word but there's no such word with that key-com and an "8" on the end 
I wonder why they left "Deledabbu" out of my phone's dictionary - it being such a commonly used word and all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
I wonder why they left "Deledabbu" out of my phone's dictionary - it being such a commonly used word and all.
|
It does appear to be a startling omission...
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 19-01-05 15:47; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Of course one could always leave one's skis in the care of one's security guard or minder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
here it is... 