 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ChrisWo wrote: |
nixmap,
Out of interest, does anyone know what it costs to rent a smallish apartment in the Bernese Oberland for the season? That sounds like the best way of working out how much you're effectively getting paid for the 2.5 days' work... |
Depends where you go.. On piste for the whole season .. My guess is between 10,000 and 20,000 francs but its a difficult equation.
For a start you can do A LOT better than TOs and other rip off operators. ( or their marketing arm at native$.co.uk)
here's a few good sites all private and non commercial sites that the locals use, the german is not to hard (use babelfish)
http://www.comparis.ch/immobilien/marktplatz/result.aspx?searchmode=n&ctlPlz=&ctlKaufMiete=0&FromLocation=intro&origin=headline
http://www.happyholiday.ch/1/schweiz/region/berner-oberland-01.htm
Im sure you can translate as necessary, the trick is getting accomodation over the holiday season on slope or in resort, when every REW on the planet descend on the resorts.
If you really want to do a season on the cheap, without being a TO slave - its probably better to simply go back home for those times or move right down in the valleys, of course youll then need transport....
Or.. stay with your a friendly REW in return for chores of course.
I guess if you start thinking about this in terms of pay and money, this is not the thread you a looking for, you wont find it here.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I guess if you start thinking about this in terms of pay and money, this is not the thread you a looking for, you wont find it here.
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But it would be very odd if anyone so rich that they didn't need to think about how much the whole season would cost them would want to spend part of it it working very hard. To have a fair idea of how many days work a month it will be, on average (and talk of 5 free days a week is clearly inaccurate, even on a quiet week) seems pretty basic too. Obviously for most of us this is idle speculation, but that's what Snowheads is mostly about.  It interests me because I spent several years researching different options for spending seasons in the Alps, before buying an apartment, and because my son is about to embark on his third winter of high class cookery. His primary objective is to earn enough to clear his debts, having just finished an M Sc but he will also spend many an hour skiing and boarding. With his own private bedroom and shower, a ski pass and over 3000 euros a month.... He went to Paris on the Eurostar on Sunday, to meet the family and discuss expectations.
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pam w, Really? You must be so proud - I am surprised you hadn't mentioned it before 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Guvnor, such a laugh......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nixmap responded to my 'application / enquiry'.
Based on his comments I felt that I was not what he is looking for.
There's an age old saying that I live by - 'you pay peanuts and you get monkeys'.
Now this doesn't necessarily have to be a monetary payment, but somewhere down the line both parties have to feel that they have benefited.
In this particular instance, and specifically for me, I'm in a better position financially and commitment wise not working and paying for seasonal accommodation in the Niseko Resort Area here in Japan than making use of free accommodation and working 2 days a week servicing the owners of the property I'm living in.
This may not be the case for others and I would recommend them asking more if it's something that appeals to them.
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Mike Pow, thanks for posting that - it's useful to know where it went. Have fun in Japan. When does skiing start in your area?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Serving the owners of the property - and their daughters and sons - would be quite a different thing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Oh, OK. If it's for a couple, and you're counting four working person/days a week, that's more like it provided your demands in terms of cleanliness, food quality, etc are reasonable "family" standards, rather than professional so that they could do a "weekend on, weekend off", each. But you and the family will be there from Friday evening to Sunday evening - and given your requirements for cleaning, child-care AND food, I had assumed that both people would be on duty throughout the weekend. Leaving 5 days, in which to do the in-depth cleaning, laundry, shopping and food preparation. Which however whizzy you are at it, takes more than no-time. And all the "extra" school holiday days also have to be deducted from the 5 days a week (or added to the 2 days a week, depending on your point of view).
I also feel you are painting a rather bleak picture of the average "seasonnaire" lifestyle. The ones I've met - quite a few, including several family members who've done it, and staff in the chalets I've stayed in over the years - seem to get plenty of time out on the slopes, along with plenty of hard work. They don't much mind living in a grotty pit smelling of socks because that's what they're used to at Uni...
The families, like your own (and mine) who live well looking after themselves in their own chalets and apartments without outside help generally achieve this because they have a super-efficient and experienced domestic logistics and child-care manager who is prepared to put in a 15 hour day for no pay. i.e. mother.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,
Is my mother coming on your ski holidays too? No wonder she is improving! 
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[quote="pam w"]
| Quote: |
The families, like your own (and mine) who live well looking after themselves in their own chalets and apartments without outside help generally achieve this because they have a super-efficient and experienced domestic logistics and child-care manager who is prepared to put in a 15 hour day for no pay. i.e. mother. |
15 hours ?? Goodness! Mrs M has everything sorted by 11 during the week, otherwise she would be late for Yoga.
How long can it take to write down a list of things to do for you housekeeper?
Pam -- Mr W needs a serious talking to.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
I also feel you are painting a rather bleak picture of the average "seasonnaire" lifestyle. The ones I've met - quite a few, including several family members who've done it, and staff in the chalets I've stayed in over the years - seem to get plenty of time out on the slopes, along with plenty of hard work. They don't much mind living in a grotty pit smelling of socks because that's what they're used to at Uni...
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Well if you get plenty of slopetime in a 6.5 day a week commercial chalet, how come your think you'd get less in a private one. I simply dont get it.
Let me get this straight -- Its a better deal to look after a different sets of 10 holiday Makers Crammed to the gills in a commercial chalet every week 6 days a week.. for 15 weeks solid.. and live in some "grotty pit smelling of socks"
Or look after a regular family of four (REW included at no charge) who no doubt youll get to know and like for 2 days a week.This cannot possibly be more work than the above. All for the difference of a ski pass and pocket money.
Well I guess the debate is really how exactly do you price or value your personal freedom.
I never know a snowheads disscussion forum could distill out such a quntessential facet of humanity.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just sent OH an email to say I'm leaving him and the kids for 4 months. If he's cool about this I'll put in my application nixmap,
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Poster: A snowHead
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nixmap, you're reading things into my posts. I never suggested for a minute that your deal would be more work, or even the same amount of work, as in a commercial chalet. I was doing two things:
pointing out that lots of people who do commercial jobs get plenty of skiing (albeit by dint of working/playing very long and exhausting days) and that:
your deal most definitely involves working more than 2 days a week, on average. You are actually going to BE there more than that, and there are obviously jobs whch need doing when you're not there (e.g. shopping, laundry, cleaning the oven - you won't want that going on during your precious leisure time)
Those are incontrovertible facts. And also, commercial chalets are NOT constantly crammed to the gills for 15 weeks solid (though no doubt their operators wish they were) and the state of the staff accommodation depends in large part on the personal habits of the occupants
Of course you are right that the debate is how you price/value your personal freedom. But that makes it absolutely vital for anyone applying for your job to have 100% clear idea of just how much personal freedom they're going to have, in return for several days work a week and a fair financial outlay. And to suggest it's an average 5 days a week seems misleading, to put it no more strongly.
When people become more skilled and experienced they can look for better conditions. My son and the "chalet bitch" who will be working with him (who is, he was delighted to discover, a very experienced professional) will share a 2 bedroom self contained flat. I expect he'll still have a few smelly socks around, though.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't know how many of you live in a resort but the weekend is the worst 2 days to go ski out of the week. Mon to Fri doing jack poo-poo is the way to do it, work when the locals/chalet weekend people arrive.
Anyway, moving on, nothing to see here.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, out of interest, if the deal did only involve 2 days of work a week (so, say, 25 hours a week) would you think that was a fair exchange for free accommodation in a resort? I'm genuinely interested in whether people think that's good 'value' or not...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
if the deal did only involve 2 days of work a week (so, say, 25 hours a week) would you think that was a fair exchange for free accommodation in a resort?
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Yes, probably. Depending on the resort, and the accommodation, and the nature of the 25 hours work. I have done 70 hour weeks and enjoyed every minute. Or easy days which were pants. It all depended on the team, and the task.
I was talking, above, about taking a family on a self-catering ski holiday. Planning meals, doing the shopping on the way, getting up early, sorting the breakfast, getting the kids ready to go out skiing. Finding gloves for each hand. Having fun with them in the snow, getting their lunch, maybe reading them a story before a nap if they're tired and it's cold. A game of chess with baguette and jam for tea, perhaps. A spot of tobogganing after the lifts close. Preparing an evening meal with a big gin and tonic to hand. Kids into bed. I've done all that, for no pay, just for fun, many a time and so have loads of other Snowheads.
If Mrs Nixmap is done by 11, not expected to do any more child-care, cooking etc, good for her. Because I was often working when my kids were growing up I really enjoyed being with them on holidays (ski holidays and others, including chartering boats - another way to spend long and exhausting days enjoying yourself).
If Mr N think that taking a family on a self-catering ski holiday, organising the shopping, cooking, clearing away, child-care, can be all done by 11, he's living on another planet. A planet inhabited by efficient but invisible domestic workers, perhaps? Mothers with small kids and without domestic help can't usually get to yoga at 11 unless the health centre has a creche.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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OP can be certain that PamW would be putting the chocolate on his pillow at bedtime. (Never understood that; you have to get up to clean your teeth again.)
I've never done one of these commercial chalet jobs, but I know people who have, and I've read about people who have. The downsides appear to be:
1.Up at 6am clearing snow off front path & cooking breakfast SEVEN days a week for TEN people.
2.Afternoon tea SIX days a week.
3.Dinner SIX days a week for TEN people.
4.Spending Saturday cleaning the place from top to bottom.
5.£50 per week pay
6.Sharing 4-to-a-room, mixed sex; probaby no window; possibly sharing with the central heating boiler; being woken up by roommates having sex/throwing up in plastic bag/bed.
I don't know how you lived at University, PamW, but I didn't live like that.
OP's proposition, compared to the above, appears to be:
1.Up at 6am clearing snow off front path & cooking breakfast TWO days a week - for FOUR people.
2.Afternnon tea TWO days a week - for FOUR people.
3.Dinner TWO days a week.
4.Cleaning the place which will be much easier than (4) above as the REW won't be trashing it; throwing up; traipsing mud over his expensive carpets etc. etc. etc. Also, there's a whole world of expectation difference between having a cleaner clean your own place, and how you want a holiday cottage to be at the beginning of your rental week.
5.No pay
6.Private two bed flat, so space for friends to stay.
7.Skiing all week.
So it's about 2/7ths x 4/10ths of the work, all for £50 a week less, but for decent accommodation. And whilst PamW's grandson might well be earning €3,000 per month running a chalet, few do.
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James the Last, you've no chance of a chocolate. You're not reading what I'm saying.
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| Quote: |
Up at 6am clearing snow off front path & cooking breakfast SEVEN days a week for TEN people
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07:30, six days a week and quite possibly only cold buffet breakfast depending on the chalet.
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Afternoon tea SIX days a week.
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You don't have to be there for afternoon tea, just make a cake while people eat breakfast. Alternatively you make all your cakes and bikkies on Saturday while changing over/ waiting for guests. This is what we women call 'multi-tasking'. (I know the rest of you can't do it.)
Plus season pass and travel to/from resort.
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I've never done one of these commercial chalet jobs
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One can tell.
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Lizzard,
I think your cakes might be a little dry by Friday and your biscuits hard enough to result in dental treatment, but I like the idea.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JimSearle, depends what you make. I have several cake recipes which only benefit from a few days maturing.
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JimSearle, biscuits go soft whilst cakes go hard and dry - or green.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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James the Last, the OP told you that he didn't require a chocolate on the pillow. You appear to have assumed that none of the family will never need lunch either and that they would not expect the chalet to be cleaned "from top to bottom" each week. You appear also to have overlooked the fact that he DID tell you he would expect childcare, including taking the kids out skiing, and that he DID tell you both that he would have house guests sometimes, and that you would have to do all the tasks required for an unspecified number of days in the school holidays.
Do you often find yourself helping the widows of Nigerian oil magnates who have funds they need to dispose of?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lizzard,
Not a victoria sponge then!
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JimSearle, er no. Though by Friday you could probably pass it off as a biscuit.
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard,
A vienese whirl no doubt
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This is beginning to have the makings of a BZK-style epic. I can't decide which of James the Last and pam w should be cast as veeeight, though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ChrisWo wrote: |
Out of interest, does anyone know what it costs to rent a smallish apartment in the Bernese Oberland for the season? That sounds like the best way of working out how much you're effectively getting paid for the 2.5 days' work... |
.. about 10000 chf last year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Agenterre, What size property is that? As a matter of interest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Roy Hockley, 1 Bedroom ( although would have 'Slept 4/5' if advertised in a brochure)... very nicely done out. IIRC it was 60m/2 ... not your usual ski apartment though but a second home/apartment which was being rented out. Caves, garage space etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agenterre, That is good value in comparrison to France!
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Agenterre, so about £5,600 at today's prices (best not to think about what it was last year!). Assuming that's split between a couple for 4.5 mths, that works out at about £150 pp pw rent. Which would value 25-30 hrs work at about £10-£12 ph...which doesn't seem totally unreasonable.
So I guess all we have to argue about now is whether the offer really does invovle only 30 hours work a week!! 
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Roy Hockley, it's a lot more than a couple of places I found using nixmap's links above...though they were firmly out of resort (and about 30% less).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 13-11-08 17:03; edited 1 time in total
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ChrisWo, It was about 200m from the closest ski-lift ..although in Saanen not Gstaad.
Roy Hockley, You could get the same Im sure in France, I also looked at places nearby which were 3-4x the price .. they key is spending the time there and looking I believe, and that is what is difficult for most. Finding it difficult to find something in Zermatt this year though, but then I havent been there either do the legwork.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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& free heating, lighting, water? I don't know what the electricity bill for a chalet for the season would be.
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brian
brian
Guest
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James the Last, are you on commission ?
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FAQ
