 Poster: A snowHead
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Yad Moss should use dynamic pricing to balance profit with quality-of-service.
The first 50 riders pay, say, £15 for a dayticket.
The next 50 riders pay, say, £25.
The next 100 pay, say, £50.
The next 100 pay, say, £80.
First come, first served.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, Its a club, not an alpine resort.
You're showing a lack of insight thats truly off the charts.
I was in a snowdome yesterday, Snowworld in Zoetermeer (so not their huge second location in Landgraaf) and I didn't even get 5 minutes of skiing per hour. There were no queues most of the time. I'd pick Yad Moss as described in the most negative way possible by YOU over that snowdome any day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ronald,
I left when the queue was nearly 20 minutes. Other stsyed till it was an hour. I reported the queue was growing at about 25% per return run. This kind of crowd build-up is phenomenal. I want Yad Moss to do well but they do have a uphill struggle to face.
\if you think being a club is alright for Yad Moss to arrange it this way then it can deter future visitors. Not tried them before but I beleieve a large number of skiing places/arears/resorts in New Zealand are also run by clubs.
Hundreds of resorts in the Alps especially in France and Switzerland are very small with 1 to 3 lifts operating successfully. The packaged TOs just don't do them.
I paid £15 for using one button lift in Yad Moss for going down a run lasting 5 minutes when the snow happens to be skiable. For 45 Euro, say £40, I can ski the 600km of 3 Vallees with any of their 200 lifts with guranteed condition. I can still go either way on these two choices but for for a queue taking 0.5 to 1 hour to ski it.
I think Yad Moss's problem is snow. If there is no enough of it then there is no interest, no investment and no improvement. When there is a sudden load of snow then its shortcomings become apparent.
As I skier I sympathise with the volunteers keeping the facility going. I would just take the easy way by spending my time in the Alps.
I have thought of my post may paint a negative picture of Yad Moss but they are facts. I didn't think they are negative because that is the best we could come up with. Like the tap on the washhand basin having no pipe connecting to it below. I even wanted to take a picture to report this fake tap. However anybody going there will immediately know there is no water supply so how the hell they can get water to wash your hands after going to the toilet? The toilet incidentally is a normal bowl with a proper seat. Everything is dropped into a big vertiical shaft and no need to flash. I suppose by law washing facility is compulsory in a toilet and even make-shift temporary toilet or cubicles,, say for functions held on public park, will have running water from the taps. I am not surprised this basic facility is missed by the under-staff club but it is a bit too much to expect everyone of the 350 visitors on the day to feel the same.
I am not asking Yad Moss to change but those are the things the visitors have to put up with for skiing on a little bit of real snow.
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saikee, Your points are valid, but it would seem that Yad Moss is struggling with the modern skiing problem in the people expect more nowadays than, say 20 years ago. Early 80s on Cairngorm 1hour Qs onthe White Lady were common, and no-one was happy, but it was accepted. Ditto poor snow condition, ditto not very good pisting etc. These days we're all spoilt aren't we?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saikee, You're telling 'facts' that I could have written down without having ever visited the place.
1 tow clubs in Switzerland have fastly more reliable snow, which can easily run for 100 days a season... Its not even close to comparable to a club running a tow and are happy to run it for 15 days a season. I think its admirable. I'm honestly suprised they can actually run a piste basher at all!!!
In my very humble opinion your slagging of the club is undeserved and not even representative for the club.
What place would gracefully handle when 4 times more people turn up then on a normal rather good day?
http://www.winterhighland.info/publicreports/index.php?21,2009-01-24
Answer: None!
Once again: You're slagging a small volunteer group/club and justifying it by hiding it under 'facts' and comparing it to '3V'...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I supoose today we are spoiled for choices as easiski has said.
I could be speaking from a position of luck as so far I manage to be able to freely select the time to go skiing, choose the country I fancy, tick a resort that interested me and go to the piste (with car) that is quiet. In recent years it is not uncommon for the wife and I being the only persons on the whole of a piste run, be it in Italy, Austria or Switzerland. There is a huge choices one can make to avoid queues, poor snow and bad facilities. In fact the wife refused to go with me because it wouldn't be enjoyable even Yad Moss is an hour drive from our door step.
Ronald,
Instead of saying I am slagging I would like to hear if there is any thought being considered to bring about some improvements. May be some features of the skiing area nice for the visitors to know about or any inaccuracy in my "observation".
I don't think many readers would know the consequence of having 350 visitors all arrived by cars parking one a narrow country road. Let's say there were 3.5 person came from each vehicle which say is 13m long each plus another say 2m clearnace between parked cars and parking on both sides of a narrow road creating a restriction barely wide enough to pass one car ( see photo below), then the length of this restriction would be 350/3.5/2*15 = 750m. Imagine the chaos of two queues of vechicles travelling to both ends of this 750m restriction, not able to see what happen at the far end, meet at the middle and one convoy of cars has to reverse back out of the 750m restriction to let the other half to pass through. The word slagging may be too light if you were involved in that situation.
See this yourself. The photo was taken at time when the waiting of the queue to the button lift was only 20 minutes.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 9-02-09 18:05; edited 1 time in total
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So the people actually regular to the club strongly advise people to park OFF the road so the snowplough can pass. Its on their website.
It should be common sense to not block a road. But people are both ignorant and stupid. You can slag the club for it, but this would happen to any club, so its incredibly unfair to make such a big thing about it.
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I for one will be giving weekends at Yad Moss a miss.
Will it be open on Monday and Tuesday 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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saikee, it is a rope in a field that some years doesnt ever run, not bleedin Aspen or Oberlech.
You may think that putting in a resto, a 6 man chair, and a car park would be a viable business proposition but you wouldn't get much backing.
These folks are good old British eccentrics, leave them be.
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Ronald,
I don't know the land ownership but it wouldn't be a big money to get a bulldozer to reshape the bottom section, spread some gravel, form some stable temporary surface and form a ramp so that the cars can be parked off road between the lift and the B6277. As this is not permanent and no infrastructure is involved there may not be a need to get planning permission. It is just like someone reshaping his own back garden.
It is not slagging or a matter of fairness here but if visitors come in late, have problem getting the car parked, wait a long time for every short run they will appreciate the information to be made know before embarking the journey.
May be I appear to be but I don't have the slight inclination to blame the club. Like you said it is run by a group of volunteers. The point in question is whether they want to do anything about it or not. For my part I merely highlight the areas of interested to me. I will live with them when I choose to go there again. I somehow think the club may like to hear some feedback, be it positive or negative.
Peter S has summarised the situation rather well by quoting
| Quote: |
| Two weeks ago we had only 30 skiers all weekend. |
Thus the club may have never intended to take 350 visitors a day. People who spread Yad Moss may be the guilty party.
cc_7up,
Some members reckon the week days are open only if there is sufficient unpaid volunteers turn up to man the facility. The snow may get everybody interested for just now. For weekends I would certainly arrive early and leave before the situation becomes difficult.
Frosty the Snowman,
Interesting point for the club owner not interested in improving the situation as we have no feedback from them so far. The car park idea was put in to take the stink out of walking up the steep hill to the lift station and opens up the possibility of summer usages of the site. Many skiing Alpine resorts are actively promoting summer visitors. The Teesdale and Weardale are motorbike country. The bikers congregate at the Hartside cafe, at a short distance from Alston, every weekend because of a modest size car park there. I am a frequent visitor there and drive pass Yad Moss routinely in the summer. It will make a nice stop for tea, coffee or a snack for every motorist enjoying the country side.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, first law of holes....stop digging
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I went to Yad Moss today and apart fromthe lift queues and the lift brakeing twice for quite some time i had great fun. Its not any fault of the club that the lift broke it was just bad luck. It was definately an interesting day out not seen so many long straight skis in a while but the club officials tho they were very busy with the lift were very good and kept coming round everyone and keeeping them up to date with the situation. Most people eventually left or walked up. I don't know if they got the lift going again as i deciced that i'd giggled enough. I had a fun time skiing on proper English snow and hey maybe i'll go back maybe i'll try Weardale next time or even Raise, but i'll tell people that come on my lessons up Pendle that the place is there and it can be a good fun day out.
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You know it makes sense.
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Does the Carlisle ski club have an AGM so it's members can have an input into how the club is run,make proposals and vote on them concerning Yad Moss interests for the coming year?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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saikee, I think you have completely missed the point about Yad Moss.
It was there a long time before you went and it will be there for a long time afterwards.
I wasn't able to get there this weekend as work intervened, but it doesn't look like they missed my money anyway.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How on earth does one use a button lift for 'jumping practice'?!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Peter S, Very well said.
It goes without saying I'd rather ski there with thin cover and 30 odd people, than Alpine conditions, powder snow, and more punters than you could shake a ski pole at!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have known about Yad Moss since it was built, but this weekend was the first time everything came together (Enough snow, clear roads, day off work, enough brownie points with Wifey  etc).
I would like to say that we had a fantastic days sking, and managed about 7 or 8 runs. The q was not that bad - usually about 1/ 2 hour. Everyone around us was freindly and the sun even came out on Saturday afternoon. Even tales of the killer Poma lift seem to be exaggerated (My son is an excellent skier, but little legs can cause problems with high tow cables). The skiing was excellent with good cover and even a bit of powder off piste to get back to the car.
Its obvious that this club is run by volenteers, they give up there time to allow 2 of us to ski all day for less than £50. I would like to say a big thank you to everyone up at Yad Moss for there efforts over the last 20 years which allowed us to ski the Penines for the first time.
And lastly to all the pratts who were, weaving, jumping and fooling about on the Poma, GROW UP. I hope they manage to get the tow up and running soon because it looks like we will have this snow for a bit longer and I can feel a sick day coming on 
Mark
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I originally saw an article about skiing in northern England in a copy of 'Ski' magazine (long defunct) back in the early 80s. It's true that it was all very obscure. Very few people knew anything about it.
Then came the internet!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, would love to have trip over there myself, but I don't have any skis and boots here, not even my Saphirs
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Having had 6 days (and counting) on Pennine snow this season I would like to make a few comments:
Firstly to echo landlockedpirate's comments:
| Quote: |
I would like to say a big thank you to everyone up at Yad Moss for their efforts over the last 20 years which allowed us to ski the Pennines for the first time.
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Here here!! And the same applies to Weardale Ski Club on Swinhope Moor. One of the organisers I spoke to there last week had managed only one run all day because they'd been so busy!! Dedication or what!
Secondly, people are entitled to their opinion but how can anyone go to Yad Moss or Weardale and think it's going to be Deer Valley or Verbier?? It's incredible but people do!! Every  , like me, must have thought that saikee's comments about building a bistro and a chairlift etc etc were a joke. Even funnier when it turned out they were real. On a very quiet midweek day last week - with brilliant snow conditions - I heard snowboarders at Weardale moaning about it ...."Not as good as I thought it would be..." etc. Well let them all pay £21 for an HOUR at Xscape then - complete with cafes, bars and hot and cold running water. Off piste away from the lifts at Weardale and Yad Moss is verging on a wilderness experience. Long may it stay that way.
Thirdly, the parking situation shown on the aearlier photo is completely unbelievable. What the **** were these idiots thinking?!! What would they have thought if they'd caused a head on crash? It would have been just brilliant if a tractor with a trailer had scraped down the side/front of every one of them or the police had ticketed the lot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spirit of self reliance - that is bascially pennine skiing. Its not about resorts, despite the worries when we had proper winters that there may be a proflifation ski tows. No chairs, no T-bars and no four dales super resort. The evolution of pennine skiing can best be seen at Yad Moss. The two shacks above the main bowl were the club hut and the tool store / garage for the site. The tows are where they are because the sites hold the snow quite well not for ski in ski out convience. Its the same for all the other club fields. Perhaps its time we got back to calling them club fields because thats what they are. You dont buy a day ticket you buy membership of the club by the day.
In the days before regular day members everyone knew the deal, chains meant chains, dig in meant dig in and blocking the tow road could result in a linching. Everyone had a stake. Then the poor winters came and the membership fell away. To survive the clubs opened up to day members - generally a succesful symbiotic relationship. Although their are ocaisional hicups along the way - parking has been an issue for both of the big clubs this weekend. Blocking the road in Weardale stops people getting to their houses or skiers getting to the tow. At Yad Moss its less about blocking the road for residents and more about blocking the road for the plough. Dont think car width think tractor and plough width. If the plough cant past the club then several of us can be facing a very long trip round to get back to the SW of County Durham.
The remaining tows still exist because the a dedicated few kept faith through the poor winters. From the 14 tows PeterS identified as running in the eighties we are now down to six in the Pennines. Two 100m rope tows at Allenheads, Two 450m (ish) buttons in weardale, one 500m rope tow at harwood (down from two last year) possibly to none next year and one 700m Poma at Yad Moss. Its not really the lack of snow but the lack of people to man them. Now that they are gone it would be very difficult to get them back again. Go to a grouse moor owner and ask to put a tow up and their agent will more than likely ask you for compensation for loss of earnings due to a reduction in grouse numbers as well as a rent. Once these tows go they arent coming back - its not just the expections of the people who come to ski that have changed. I'm not sure the average moor owner is really going to get kite boarding away from the ski areas.
To get a tow going now would mean getting the consent of:
Landowner, tenant or tenants, shooting rights owner and shooting tenant. Some of these may or may not be the same people.
Local council, local residents, AONB partnership and natural england.
Then there are the interest groups - CPRE, Ramblers Association, RSPB, Game Conservancy Trust and the Friends of where every you want to put the tow up.
And thats before you get into interesting things like european directives - no I didnt know about these things until I asked PeterS the usual why dont you... question. Oh and there's enviriomental impact assesments.
The infrastructure that is in place was developed at a time when several weekends of skiing then a break then another couple of weekends were common. When clubs had large memberships and could really invest time and money. In the eighties weardale had a membership of 500-600 and a waiting list to join. Day members on wednesdays only. Half term skiing during the spring term was common. Yad Moss apparently used to field 20-30 volunteers on a work group. Last summer at weardale there was only 3 of us to put in the first stage of the new fence off the top of F2. The second work group managed 11 people. This was after one cancelation for bad weather and me droping out with a cracked rib. Its not just snow fencing that needs constructing - tow maintainance takes a lot of time. Each hanger or poma has to be checked and serviced every summer. 90ish at Weardale, 60ish at Yad Moss. Apparently a Poma strip and service takes one to two hours. Looks like I may be moving from hitting snow with a shovel to springs and pipes this summer!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If the Carlisle ski club heirarchy wants to calm the weekend crowds down then why don't they make a ruling that the weekend skiing at Yad Moss is available to FULL members only and splash it full and wide on their website.?
This of course would result in a loss of revanue as the day member paying herd would go else where to ski so i suspect this will not happen.
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You know it makes sense.
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If the club cares about the visitors it can always stop selling day ticket after its optimum capacity has been reached. Then there will be no problem with the car park. Disbehaving visitors can also banned from the site to prolong the life of its Poma. However this will not go down well with later comers especially if they drive over a hundred miles to try the facility out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If people were allowed to have a say in Yad Moss's future then the choices (imo) would be to,
1- Install adequate facillities
2- Make weekends available to full members only
3- Do nothing
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Poster: A snowHead
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saikee, Having read the above discussions, I feel I reflect the feelings of others too polite to comment when I say that I can not report my true feelings for your incredible lack of intelligence demonstrated by all your comments as they would undoubtedly be moderated out completely.
There are hills there which catch and hold snow; this is a novelty in England; when it gets really good lots of people will want to come so it will get gridlocked. That's life! Unfortunately it simply isn't possible to engineer the world to ensure that everyone can experience everything!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, I'm not that polite, I've never been to Yad Moss- or anywhere to ski in England (except a little cross country between Sedbergh and Kirkby Stephen snow I think of it) but saikee, you have just lost the plot and don't have the insight to see it - and say sorry for what are obviously very hurtful 'observations' aimed at people who spend hours of their own time for the benefit of all - even you.
Clearly from the posts and folk I have spoken to who do /did ski there the English ski fields are run for and by enthusiasts. You are clearly not and enthusiast. Say sorry, shut up.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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edsilva,
If Yad Moss is run for and by enthusiasts then I have made a mistake by going there as a member of the general public. I was obviously ignorant of its restrictions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Saikee, "Snowhead" wasn't the first type of head that sprung to mind whilst reading your posts.... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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alicecat,
My intention for the facility is good as I am a local who rides a motorbike regularly in this area. My vision of it is to turn the facility usable in the summer so that its infrastructure can automatically solve some of the limitations that have been reported.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Haha, that's excellent.
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| saikee wrote: |
alicecat,
My intention for the facility is good as I am a local who rides a motorbike regularly in this area. My vision of it is to turn the facility usable in the summer so that its infrastructure can automatically solve some of the limitations that have been reported. |
Seriously, just drop it. Your 'vision' obviously isn't required.
It's also fairly obvious that you only went because the conditions were the best they have been for a long time. I'm sure if you'd visited when the conditions were more marginal you might have realised what the attraction of skiing in the Pennines is all about.
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saikee,
So if you are a local, and by commenting here you imply that you are enthusiastic about snow sports, why have you not joined the club? That way you could air your views directly to all the people who are in a position to directly affect the situation. You would also discover the realities of achieving even the smallest development! That is until, assuming you exhibit a similar level of arrogance and ignorance there as you have here, they throw you out!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| saikee wrote: |
alicecat,
My intention for the facility is good as I am a local who rides a motorbike regularly in this area. My vision of it is to turn the facility usable in the summer so that its infrastructure can automatically solve some of the limitations that have been reported. |
I am shocked that you would even consider developing such a wild and unspoilt area. You may think you are a local, but you obviously have no idea.
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| paulio wrote: |
Haha, that's excellent. |
I'm not sure I'd call that excellent, more a sure fire way to screw a poma up and stop lots of others having fun.............
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FAQ
