 Poster: A snowHead
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Well, when I started this thread I certainly didn't expect such controvesy - but its a very interesting argument. So far I have dropped my BMI from 31 to 25.5 so just starting to edge it off the overweight side of the graph - just a bit more needed.
Mind you its very difficult to lose weight in a house that cooks 'puddings'!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Kramer,
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VolklAttivaS5, I'm not concerned about my weight. It's a very poor goal, so I don't use it. When I say I'm still overweight, I refer to my BMI, which has dropped considerably, but is still well into the overweight band. I'm actually much happier to lose weight slowly rather than quickly, as my personal opinion is that sustained weight loss is more likely when it is done by creating a small calorific defecit rather than a large one.
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Do you have a goal instead of weight then? I must admit (although I go on the mirror more so) I like to have a target of weight as I explained above because I can see month in month out that it's working. Also measuring the waist and hips, thighs and upper arms is good too to see the difference. My main reason for measuring my weight loss though is so I can get my BMI within the healthy range again, which of course is directly related to your actual mass in kg.
Lizzard yes you are right about the nuggets and pretty much every other junk/convenience food, even though it doesn't taste that great you want to carry on eating it for some reason!
D G Orf,
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For what it's worth I've been doing an increased exercise routine since may last year, I've also been watcing what I eat but not too hard, in that time I've lost arround 39kg or just over 6 stone, I find that I need to do about 4 1hr+ sessions each week to actually loose weight but I still loose inches off the stomach even without significant weight loss as the exercises are improving the muscle tone under the rolls of fat, I reckon I've gone from a 4x4 spare tyre arround my stomack to a medium sized cat sitting there, I still need to loose arround another 12kg but I'm getting there
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Blimey 6 stone in just over a year!? I'm sure you will see a massive benefit to your skiing with that gone next year if you haven't done so already! Well done D G Orf.
As I have said I've recently just started going back to the gym in the last couple of weeks, and so far my weight is about the same, but I have lost quite a lot of my belly already. I did find that last time I lost a lot of weight that this happened, in the first say, month I didn't lose hardly anything in weight but my body shape changed and lost a couple of inches, and you wonder if you're doing enough. Then after another couple of weeks it really started to shift. It's funny how different people's bodies react accordingly. 6 stone in a year though is a lot!
Interesting to see how much exercise different people need to get rid of excess weight and also how it comes about.
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Just don't take things too far, one girl in the local gym has so little body fat on her that you can count her vertebrae when she's on the cross trainer machine... Scarry, even the instructors have told her she's overdoing things but in the end it's up to her
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I don't eat junk food. It's real food I like a lot. Not necessarily fancy stuff, maybe something like fresh home made multigrain bread toasted with marmalade for breakfast. One slice, fine. Two? Unnecessary, delicious but fattening. Or - for lunch today - same bread in a mashed banana sandwich. Could easily have eaten two rounds of sandwiches, but didn't. And I could eat packets of nuts straight off - I never buy almonds, brazil nuts, etc unless I have a particular recipe in mind or they're gone - down the hatch in moments. They're healthy food but they put weight on just as surely as unhealthy food does. A few days ago I made a recipe from the latest French edition of the Waitrose food magazine, pancakes with a gruyere, mushroom and spinach filling. Butter at every stage, then a pint of cream poured over the top, garnished with - you guessed! More Gruyere. Frankly, by the time I finished making it I was grateful to wrap it in clingfilm and bung it in the freezer to eat with my son and his family tomorrow. It was much more laden in fat than my normal recipe for savoury pancakes. But I am sure they will be absolutely delicious. We will have mountains of salad with them, but then there's that home made strawberry icecream to follow (this last, incidentally, at a small fraction of the price of Haagen Dasz, and incomparably better, made in a trice too).
My BMI is 23.1 which I guess is OK (I found a website telling you how to measure it, having read the above). But it could easily creep up if I let it, without a morsel of junk food passing my lips. I'm not sure that extra lardy bits resulting from high quality food look any better than those piled on by kebabs and pies. 
I do find that over the weeks the more you eat the more you want to eat - however good quality the food. The stomach stretches, perhaps?
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pam w, yes you're probably right about the stomach stretching to accomodate more food. I really noticed a difference when I cut down last time. I found I couldn't eat nowhere near as big a portion of say, Sunday lunch.
If your BMI is 23.1 then you're right in the middle of the healthy range. You are very right about extra fat put on not looking any different, regardless of the source! I stay clear of kebabs and pies though. The only sort of kebab I might eat would be a "shish kebab which is basically pieces of chicken breast meat (well it is breast meat at the one in Hereford anyway) grilled on a skewer over hot coals, much the same as it would be on a barbeque. It isn't covered with stuff, it's plain chicken and then they serve it with salad. One thing that is fattening if you have one of those sorts of kebabs is the garlic mayonnaise though, but if you don't have that then I can't see it being any different from chicken grilled at home. I definitely do not eat the chicken/lamb things (doner) that goes round on that big skewer thing with copious amounts being sliced off-yuck!
D G Orf, I don't think there's any chance of that with me! I like my scoff far too much to get into that state. It's a shame when girls get like that. Half the time they still think they are fat in their minds too. I can lose plenty of weight off my behind/hips and it will still be a nice shapely feminine one!
Actually I have found that underneath the layer of fat on my legs and lower half in general, there's plenty of muscle underneath probably helped by all the skiing I did last season, especially in variable,cruddy snow, that really makes your legs work. Getting back onto piste after that felt like a breeze! I've never been "flabby fat" always "firm fat" if that makes sense.
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VolklAttivaS5, the main advantage of weight as a target is that it's easy to measure.
The disadvantages are first that it's a negative goal, so hard to maintain motivation towards, second that it doesn't always accurately represent progress, and thirdly that it's a firm target, so that if you do actually reach it, then you tend to lapse.
I keep a training log to motivate myself, so I know how much I'm lifting, and how fast I'm running and rowing. On top of that I have training goals - to be able to do a wide grip pull up, to bench press my body weight, to beat the thin girl from BMF up the hill...
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Kramer, Yes I can see how once the target weight loss is achieved, it could be easy to lapse on the exercise front, partly for fear of losing even more weight and getting too thin, or quite simply "Oh I've done it now, I don't need to go as often".
Good idea about the training log. We have that kind of record keeping on our "keys" at the gym I go to that operates the machines. After every visit you can see what you've lifted on each body section, how far you've ran and what speed, biked or rowed etc etc. You can see how it has changed over time which is good to be able to see that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, 7.5miles in half an hour is perfectly respectable. Do it often enough and your endurance will increase as well. 
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| One thing I did notice, going back to some women unfortunately and seemingly exercising their bums and breasts practically off (i.e getting too thin) was the number of women I noticed that didn't actually have a bum at all, hardly any actual cheeks I mean. Something I hadn't obviously paid a great deal of attention to on my previous gym visits. Or very skinny bottom halves (legs etc) even though the top half may have been quite well endowed actually and quite a lot of weight in the middle round the stomach. I did see one woman who had a nice shape though. I suppose it takes all sorts. |
Take a similar look at the women in the lift queue and the gym when you go out to Tignes, you won't see any who are losing muscle bulk.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rjs wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| One thing I did notice, going back to some women unfortunately and seemingly exercising their bums and breasts practically off (i.e getting too thin) was the number of women I noticed that didn't actually have a bum at all, hardly any actual cheeks I mean. Something I hadn't obviously paid a great deal of attention to on my previous gym visits. Or very skinny bottom halves (legs etc) even though the top half may have been quite well endowed actually and quite a lot of weight in the middle round the stomach. I did see one woman who had a nice shape though. I suppose it takes all sorts. |
Take a similar look at the women in the lift queue and the gym when you go out to Tignes, you won't see any who are losing muscle bulk. |
Sorry rjs I don't quite follow you.....are you saying because the women in Tignes they're skiers they have nice full bums (not necessarily fat) with decent glutes and no sparrow legs, or are you saying that they look the same as the women I saw in the gym to day with no bums, just a short line for a bum??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Megamum, 7.5miles in half an hour is perfectly respectable. Do it often enough and your endurance will increase as well. |
I'm one of those who do 50 miles a day type. So here's my experience.
My advice is not to "do it more frequently" but do MORE of it each time out. In my view, which is different from that of Kramer's , you get more benefit from riding longer distance each time out. Endurance doesn't come so much from doing short distance more frequently, but from riding for a longer distance. In order to fit the distance within a reasonable time, you will keep on pushing harder. As a result, you'll get faster too.
I only cycle 2-4 times a week. Very rarely do I cycle 4 times a week. Most weeks are only twice a week. But almost always more than 20 miles. And I try to fit those 20 miles within an hour too (granted, I'm on a road bike with skinny tyres and areodynamic positions). That way, I can still have a life besides "exercise". That is good enough to prepare me to jump on the bike to do a 50--60 miles day on one of the weekend day, and still have energy left to go dancing in the evening.
I used to ride more often and rode longer distance each time. But I had lately realize those extra mileage and frequency isn't doing me much good cycling-wise. All it actually did was interfereing with the rest of my life. So for last and this season, I've slowly scale back both the frequency and time spend but up the intensity (because I can, now that I have a day's rest from the previous day's exercise.). So far, I'm actually faster than before.
This Sunday, I'll be doing my first century of this season, riding 100 miles in a day. I hadn't done anything similar since last October. Should be interesting.
Each individual responds differently to different pattern of exercise. Kramer's routine might work for him. But it didn't work for me. It may or may not work for you Megamum.
It's interesting to read about all these talk of "work out" plans. I don't think of my cycling as "working out". Sure, I got sweaty and sored afterwards. But it's all in the name of FUN. I do enjoy being out on bikes. Besides, riding hard produces endorphin, which is like poping a pill... The more I do it, the more I get high! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Megamum, I would go along with abc, on the time thing - for cycling 30 minutes (while being a good start), once you have been doing for a few month, is not much ,more than a warm up. I would suggest trying to maintain the same average speed (have you got a cycle computer yet?) and gradually increase the mileage on one or two rides each week. I'm not too up on cycle training but running the principle was to increase distance by 10% each week. It is the time training continuously that will improve stamina. I just wish I could work up your enthusiasm - since having to give up running because of two prolapsed discs I'm having trouble with motivation for real exercise. The rehab exercise after surgery was fine, because I got real, fast progress, but now without any training I am fit enough to have do a 9 - 10 hour mountain walking day, or 100 miles cycling in 6hrs 45 mins - but I know I am not "properly fit".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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peura, It's a fairly old "Glamour" photographers pose, for just the reason that you've spotted
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| abc wrote: |
| My advice is not to "do it more frequently" but do MORE of it each time out. In my view, which is different from that of Kramer's , you get more benefit from riding longer distance each time out. Endurance doesn't come so much from doing short distance more frequently, but from riding for a longer distance. In order to fit the distance within a reasonable time, you will keep on pushing harder. As a result, you'll get faster too. |
In my view you'd get better gains by keeping the duration shorter, but doing it at higher intensities and more frequently. This helps both speed and endurance.
AFAIK many coaches are starting to come round to the benefits of interval training as well.
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mountain biking is addictive.. you can be out for 2 hours and what with all the upping and downing it is interval training.. go different routes do fave routes the other way round.. your balance and confidence improve, committing yourself to fast downhill stretches, getting round bumpy corners faster etc etc .. all in all perfect ski training..
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peura,
Yes you're right, I'm sure they are bent over slightly. They must be because the way they're standing doesn't leave a lot to the imagination in other ways does it?
I'm not sure they walk round all day in that position though 
Even so, if they were stood upright they seem to have that "full bum" look, but you're right, I think they are trying to emphasise the roundness in the pics.
abc, very sensible comments you have made there. Incidentally doesn't the term "working out" come from working out the muscles or something like that? In my view you have it spot on, different things work for different people. Exercise should be fun and enjoyed like you say, not a chore of "Oh I've to go out because I'm only been 5 times this week". It shouldn't hurt/you shouldn't be in pain when you do exercise nor just after because if so, you're doing too much IMO. Yes, the next morning your muscles might feel a bit sore/achy but it shouldn't be like it's painful/unbearable to get out of bed and walk down the stairs first thing. Its better if the exercise is measurable like you say, if you can use a cycle computer or have a trainer at the gym who can measure your progress.
Every 3 months (usually-although I've obviously not got back to that yet) they have something called a Fitness Assessment at my gym which gives you certain types of exercises to do, some are how fast, some are for how long, some are how heavy, and some are for how many etc. I do find those a good way of seeing how your body is getting better over time. Then they tweak your program to allow for the changes and to make it more difficult for another 3 months until you get used to that and then so on and so on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
In my view you'd get better gains by keeping the duration shorter, but doing it at higher intensities and more frequently. This helps both speed and endurance.
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Depends what you mean by "gains". Just try running a marathon on the back of lots of fast 10k runs ( or a 10k on the back of lots of 400m) - it doesn't work. If you want endurance you need to train for endurance. The fast 10k will help, but only when tied in with other long endurance training. Interval training is good, used to do it once a week along with a short (10k) fast (for me!) run, a medium (10 - 12 mile) and a long - 15 - 20 mile when I was in training - but the interval training was a hard hours training!
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I spend a lot of time getting my endurance horse fit. i.e. we have raced around 80km at 17kph. To do this a horse needs a base fitness of long, slow steady work. Then we build up the speed and we incorporate interval training i.e. 3 x 1 mile canters getting the HR to around 180bpm (max. for a horse is 200 ish bpm, resting rate 30-40bpm). I have tried to do similar with my fitness work. As far as I've found long periods of workout do increase stamina and fitness i.e. 2-3 hrs of mountain biking. I've found interval training a bit of a strange thing to replicate for me. The idea is that you push your heart rate over the aerobic threshold and thereby eventually increase the HR point at which you go start exercising anaerobically. This works really well in an endurance horse - it doesn't seem to work for me.
The 30mins 3 x week routine is really inadequate for getting fit. It is a good starting point though. When I first started doing proper exercise the most I could manage was 5 mins on a cross trainer. Skiing has certainly increased my enthusiasm for getting fit.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
mountain biking is addictive.. you can be out for 2 hours and what with all the upping and downing it is interval training.. go different routes do fave routes the other way round.. your balance and confidence improve, committing yourself to fast downhill stretches, getting round bumpy corners faster etc etc .. all in all perfect ski training..
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I'm sure it is, but I am far too timid a cyclist to do all that. I don't like descents.... falling off a bike onto hillside and rock is just too painful. I did come off a mountain bike the day before going to a wedding a year or so ago. I actually threw myself off deliberately because I really didn't like the look of the very narrow and eroded pathway ahead of me with a big drop into a ditch one side and a bigger drop into the sea the other. I wasn't confident I could get across it though it hadn't given my OH any trouble. He looked round amazed as I yelled and kamikazied into the bushes. I grazed elbows etc. but no great harm done. Looked an idiot at the wedding in a posh frock though; silly old trout. But that was very slow speed, and sort of controlled. I'd be far too scared to really go for it on a mountain bike. But I'm not scared of falling on snow, one slides along so much better.... and with all those clothes on too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| mountain biking is addictive.. you can be out for 2 hours and what with all the upping and downing it is interval training.. go different routes do fave routes the other way round.. your balance and confidence improve, committing yourself to fast downhill stretches, getting round bumpy corners faster etc etc .. all in all perfect ski training.. |
my view exactly.
I used to be a road cyclist many years ago and would often do 500 miles in a week in the Summer. Boring Boring Boring compared with being in the woods surrounded by trees, wildlife, no cars etc etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
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mountain biking is addictive.. you can be out for 2 hours and what with all the upping and downing it is interval training.. go different routes do fave routes the other way round.. your balance and confidence improve, committing yourself to fast downhill stretches, getting round bumpy corners faster etc etc .. all in all perfect ski training..
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I'm sure it is, but I am far too timid a cyclist to do all that. I don't like descents.... falling off a bike onto hillside and rock is just too painful. I did come off a mountain bike the day before going to a wedding a year or so ago. I actually threw myself off deliberately because I really didn't like the look of the very narrow and eroded pathway ahead of me with a big drop into a ditch one side and a bigger drop into the sea the other. I wasn't confident I could get across it though it hadn't given my OH any trouble. He looked round amazed as I yelled and kamikazied into the bushes. I grazed elbows etc. but no great harm done. Looked an idiot at the wedding in a posh frock though; silly old trout. But that was very slow speed, and sort of controlled. I'd be far too scared to really go for it on a mountain bike. But I'm not scared of falling on snow, one slides along so much better.... and with all those clothes on too. |
I used to really enjoy it, until I did something similar, only this was an accidental fall, with a long slide down to the river Guisane on one side, and a drainage canal on the other. I left several layers of skin behind, mainly off my back. It sort of put me off a bit, although I did some less adventurous stuff last week in Serre Chevalier. I would love to enjoy it again though. .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Did anyone else see that poor guy go straight off the edge of the road on the mountain stage of the Tour on Tuesday?
That was scary. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kramer, no. Did he crash really badly?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Busy day today and have yet to pack for the weekend and also still have to get the house straight for my Swiss friends holiday next week so haven't been out tonight, but did walk for a couple of miles+ in London today whilst the tubes sodded around being late. Have decided not to go out tonight - just run out of time.
That's the thing about longer distances and therefore probably longer taken to do them, I can probably find 30-45 mins in an evening to go and do something, but in my busy life there is probably very little chance of finding more time - this will ultimately limit how far I can the cycling. This is not driven by a lack of enthusiasm, but more by dint of the fact that I am, now, a single mum who still doesn't live an ordinary life in a 2up 2down with time to spare. As I mentioned above all these exercise recommendations are all very well, but its finding the time to implement them. All you singles and DINKY's out there don't realise the freedom that you have [envious smiley reqd].
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, it was on a hairpin corner on a descent from a col in the mountains, he didn't make it round the corner, and went flying straight off the edge. He went flying down the hill, but managed to stop himself.
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Kramer, yep - I suspect they haven't got his bike back yet. That looked a 45 degree scree slope he ended up on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| erica2004 wrote: |
| I spend a lot of time getting my endurance horse fit. i.e. we have raced around 80km at 17kph. To do this a horse needs a base fitness of long, slow steady work. Then we build up the speed and we incorporate interval training i.e. 3 x 1 mile canters getting the HR to around 180bpm (max. for a horse is 200 ish bpm, resting rate 30-40bpm). I have tried to do similar with my fitness work. As far as I've found long periods of workout do increase stamina and fitness i.e. 2-3 hrs of mountain biking. I've found interval training a bit of a strange thing to replicate for me. The idea is that you push your heart rate over the aerobic threshold and thereby eventually increase the HR point at which you go start exercising anaerobically. This works really well in an endurance horse - it doesn't seem to work for me. |
The "long, slow steady work" dose wonder for your horses, and for a lot of cyclists too, me included (and my countryman Lance Armstrong make it a popular mode of training for endurance cyclist in America )
Is it possible your own "interval" training is too intense? I found I need to keep my heart rate in a rather narrow zone: just above aerobic but not so high I can't sustain it for more than a minute (or two). Seems to me, I'm more responsive to the "long slow steady" mode of workout EVEN when doing interval training. So, finding that narrow band that would push me but not break me took quite a bit of trial and error.
Megamum, keep your 30 minute workouts. But if you can find the time just once a week, make that a long, slow one. Perhaps on the weekend? That would give you the endurance you need. Do the short 30 min workouts hard but make the long one an enjoyable outing.
The long ride is what burns most calories, so is likely do more to drop your weight than the other two 30 minute workouts combine.
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Megamum,
The body can only store so much energy and as abc says long lower intensity burns more fat for a given energy expenditure. However muscle also burns fat and it gives shape. A heart monitor is also a good investment so you can track progress and see roughly how many cals you have burnt (be sure to buy one with a calorie counter). You might want to try and change your routine a little, here are a couple of ideas .....
1. Ride for 30 mins at a constant pulse and see how much further you ride (buy a cheap bike computer so you can measure distance travelled).
2. Warm up with light exercise (e.g. ca @ 110 beats per minute (bpm) pulse) for 10 mins, then ride hard for 10 minutes then finish off with 10 mins @ 110 pulse).
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Megamum, 7.5 miles in 30mins is pretty damn good. And I don't think puddings are the real enemy. We had blackcurrant and rhubarb (from the garden) crumble last night. All that vitamin C.
abc's advice of doing one long bike ride is a really good idea. You wouldn't believe how it boosts your metabolism.
abc, It might be an age thing too? I agree - I'll try intervals on the running machine - 1 minute at a fast pace, then 5mins steady ?
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VolklAttivaS5, it may be for them just a posed posture as D G Orf suggests. I've been doing some more thinking (and a bit of googling) and I think I've decided that we're ("Mrs Peura" and I) are noticing a lot more people with Lordosis (I think) than before. From what I've worked out (which isn't much) I think it's a common "problem posture" for females. I'm not sure whether it's more common than before or we're just more observant of it  .
Megamum, would you be able to do a "body weight circuit" on two other days? I'm doing one (based on Kramer's suggestion) twice a week and "start running" program which involves running three times a week. So far I think (scales not very consistant) I've lost ~10kg and feel fitter and stronger, without too many changes to my diet. I've not had to buy anything special and the circuit training I'm doing in the home. Could you do the same after the megakids have gone to bed? Assuming (perhaps a big assumption) you're not too shattered. I've just about pursuaded "Mrs Peura" to do something similar, although we're trying an lower activity level to start with, and all we've had to find for her is something "more supportive".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
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