 Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I'm not quite clear what "purely political" means. The law was imposed (about 30 years ago?) and it's stuck. That's the important thing, and if "purely political" means "gimmick" then how come it's endured?
Let's get away from the cynicism and get away from this concept that the ultimate ski experience has to equate to the maximum air pollution.
Clearly it doesn't. |
why?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
"It's not easy to ski powder" - ohhh yes it is. Fat enough skis and anyone can. |
Depending upon the conditions, skiing powder with a suncrust or an uneven base can become quite difficult sometimes. It does say 'It's not easy to ski powder - at first', which is true because it requires a slightly different technique. So that comment is fairly true.
Also, you've taken the 'heliskiing before lifts' comment completely out of context.
'This is how it was done long before chairlifts gave people a ride to the top. Of course, pioneers trekked to the mountain peaks without the aid of a helicopter, but you get the drift.'
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| graeme wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I'm not quite clear what "purely political" means. The law was imposed (about 30 years ago?) and it's stuck. That's the important thing, and if "purely political" means "gimmick" then how come it's endured?
Let's get away from the cynicism and get away from this concept that the ultimate ski experience has to equate to the maximum air pollution.
Clearly it doesn't. |
why? |
Let us not forget that you can still heli-ski from France. So, yes, the whole 'ban' was, and remains, a fudge and a gimmick.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spikyhedgehog, no, I haven't taken the comment out of context. Sentence: "This is how it was done long before chairlifts gave people a ride to the top.". Either it was, or it wasn't.
It wasn't.
" skiing powder with a suncrust or an uneven base can become quite difficult sometimes." It does say 'It's not easy to ski powder - at first', which is true because it requires a slightly different technique. So that comment is fairly true.
To a point fair comment, but...1. only to the extent that "powder" requires a "different" technique - I would suggest it doesn't.... and 2. What they mean (I interpret) by "powder" doesn't have a crust. That's the point of heliskiing ( at least according to the marketing or on site conversation).
Case in point:
My 1st heli week involved us as a mixed group, some very strong skiers, skiing with a chap who had only come along for the social side (!). His skiing was by SCGB (sudden intake of horrified breath) standard at best "Novice". Very fat skis later and he was at least keep up with the rest of the party. So given the "right" kit I reckon anyone who can remain upright on skis for 20 minutes can heliski...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'll agree with you there to a certain degree, although I wouldn't personally say I use the same technique on and off piste.
I don't think heliskiing is ever advertised as a hugely difficult way to ski, most operators say you need to have the ability to ski blacks. Although I think this is more to do with the fact they can't have someone freaking out half way down the mountain.
I think the fact that heliskiing is normally partaken by strong skiers, due to the dedication it requires to spend the money on the trip, is what causes it to be looked at as more difficult.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Has anyone heli-skied on Monte Rosa, down to Zermatt? Thinking of giving it a go next year. I'd like to think my technique/stamina is up to it, but I'd be interested in any reality checks.
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laundryman, yes - last March (my only time heliskiing). No more nor less difficult than any other 'typical' off-piste jaunt (if such a thing exists). Mostly skiing down glacier (in some cases with nicely spectacular crevasse/serac fields), so usual caveats about stopping above guides/watching out for crevasses apply. Depending on where you're trying to get back to, you do have to keep up a reasonable pace though - we needed to get back up Kleine Matterhorn and down into Champoluc for the last lift to Gressoney - so no time for faffing about (or lunch). If you're only heading back to Zermatt or Cervinia there's much less time pressure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, thanks, that's reassuring. I've done the "easy" route down the Valleé Blanche without any trouble (only time on glacier), but I've had quite a bit more general off-piste experience since then, usually under instruction. I'd only be going back to Zermatt. Keeping up a hard pace with an experienced group would be a concern for me.
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David Murdoch, Everyone thinks I jumped out of a Helicopter James Bond stylee, really not the case!
Anyway, it's all just skiing down a hill on two planks, how different can a technique be?? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spikyhedgehog, actually, we did have one drop where the helo hovered with the rear 50cms of skis on a ledge, the guide walked balk along the skids and around the back to open the door and we all jumped backwards out to ensure we didn't go the other way down a 1,500ft cliff. Awesome flying.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Murdoch, sounds really awesome! I can't wait until next season. I'm really tempted to go to the biggest State in the Union.
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Tim Brown, AirBase UK? Aren't you there already?
Heli skiiing? Hmmm. Done it twice (as in two weeks). One week was truly fantastic. One week involved sitting in a lodge for pretty much the whole week 6 hours drive from anywhere waiting for the weather to clear...although one of my chums had epic experiences in the Himalayas and is planning what looks to be a fine trip to Turkey next year.
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You know it makes sense.
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Phew, what a thread!
I've been watching/reading Dave Goldsmith baiting here and elsewhere since I joined this forum over a year ago and it still puzzles me!
Okay, Dave seems to wind some people up inordinately but as far as I can see these people must have terribly low tolerance levels or just can't stand people who disagree with them period. I don't see the problem, Dave brings up some interesting points and makes some useful contributions. I agree with some of what he says but not everything, that's life, but I don't feel the need to throw a hissy fit whenever he posts and accuse him of all sorts and/or make what seem sometimes like personal attacks.
Maybe I'm missing something but then I don't think it's overly clever to laugh in the face of climate change either, whatever may be causing it... 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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roga, thanks for that. Clearly, given your attitude to him, David with not mind the fact that you use a pseudonym and you will not be required to produce evidence for you existence. Also, he will not require you to 'show your face' and the 'day of reckoning' will not be fast approaching you.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 14-06-07 23:12; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tim Brown, Great to see you are still advertising the Club even as a non-member 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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boredburfin, the SCGB's website is an excellent source of information for skiers. Much of the site is also freely accessible to non-members. So is there really a problem with me keeping the link in my sig?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| roga, thanks for that. |
Oh don't mention it Tim... no really don't!
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| Clearly, given your attitude to him |
Which is that I agree with some things he says and don't agree with others and don't have a personal vendetta against him?
More than reasonable and an eminently mature POV don't you think??
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| David with not mind the fact that you use a pseudonym and you will not be required to produce evidence for you existence. Also, he will not require you to 'show your face' and the 'day of reckoning' will not be fast approaching you. |
Just to give you a second chance to 'get' what I'm saying, and to simplify it because evidently I didn't make myself clear enough above:
I don't give a t*ss what's been said or interpreted as having been said in any argument here or anywhere else, especially when evidently some people would accuse DG of arguing black was white even if he was screaming "black is black" and/or would take the opposite opinion to his just because he's the one making the point.
I am fully aware that both sides, DG and those that seem to have some sort of personal vendetta against him, sometimes say silly things but I believe it's all best forgotten rather than turned into a vendetta, e.g. once I have replied to this I'll forget the tone and attitude that I perceive rightly or wrongly from your comment above and go back to presuming you're a reasonable and sensible chap... unless of course you present evidence to the contrary... again... and again!
Oh FYI (and FWIW), my "pseudonym" is actually pretty close to my real name so no great cloak and dagger there - 'rog' is the shortened version of my first name, a version many people use to address me, and 'a' is the first letter of my second - hardly rocket science, but then I thought understanding my point above wasn't rocket science either
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga, has Goldsmith asked you to send your scgb membership card to his house so he can validate your id?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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boredsurfin,
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Tim Brown, Great to see you are still advertising the Club
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I think not 
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roga,
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Which is that I agree with some things he says and don't agree with others and don't have a personal vendetta against him?
More than reasonable and an eminently mature POV don't you think??
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YES! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
boredsurfin,
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Tim Brown, Great to see you are still advertising the Club
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I think not |
You actually think? Can we have the proof in the form of the reasoning behind that last statement?
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Tim Brown,
QED
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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roga, flattered to be put on a par with "terribly reasonable and sensible chaps". 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tim Brown,
seems to indicate that Hurtle, didn't suggest that thought was involved.
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| roga wrote: |
| Okay, Dave seems to wind some people up inordinately but as far as I can see these people must have terribly low tolerance levels or just can't stand people who disagree with them period. I don't see the problem, Dave brings up some interesting points and makes some useful contributions. I agree with some of what he says but not everything, that's life, but I don't feel the need to throw a hissy fit whenever he posts and accuse him of all sorts and/or make what seem sometimes like personal attacks. |
That's also a personal attack, apart from the fact that you don't name names. I don't know if it's aimed at me, but if so, I'd be grateful if you could substantiate "low tolerance levels" and "hissy fit". For my part, if Dave (or anyone else) posts views with which I disagree, or uses flawed reasoning, I feel free to respond (trying - but perhaps sometimes failing - not to be personal).
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You know it makes sense.
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| roga wrote: |
I've been watching/reading Dave Goldsmith baiting here and elsewhere since I joined this forum over a year ago and it still puzzles me!
Okay, Dave seems to wind some people up inordinately but as far as I can see these people must have terribly low tolerance levels or just can't stand people who disagree with them period. I don't see the problem, Dave brings up some interesting points and makes some useful contributions. |
Not any more he don't !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I too must admit to disaproving of heliskiing in principle while wanting to try it once, which I did the year before last. (By the way, I agree with Bode Swiller that you can get as many thrills in a good week with a guide and many more thrills per £ with a guide.) To make it much worse I did it by going to the USA/Canada for the first time. But at least I admit it was selfish.
Surely the point isn't that the total CO2 output be compared with that of US or China but that we each have a responsibility for our own output and that it is selfish to raise it vastly above the average. Total output is simply the total of all the little ones. If we dismiss the little ones we are in deep poo poo.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dale Goldsmith,
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Not any more he don't !
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Yes he does, you silly sock puppet!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dale Goldsmith wrote: |
| roga wrote: |
I've been watching/reading Dave Goldsmith baiting here and elsewhere since I joined this forum over a year ago and it still puzzles me!
Okay, Dave seems to wind some people up inordinately but as far as I can see these people must have terribly low tolerance levels or just can't stand people who disagree with them period. I don't see the problem, Dave brings up some interesting points and makes some useful contributions. |
Not any more he don't ! |
"YES HE DOES" "NO HE DOESN"T" "YES HE DOES"
I feel like I'm in pantomime land now with David and his dedicated chorus of rabid detractors!
By the way, if David hasn't skied recently as is constantly stated by others (I don't know) then that is no doubt his private tragedy, given his love of the sport, and I don't think we should pry.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowball, he's behind you!
Now, who's the dame?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Actually he might be behind me - I think he lives near here.
Actually when these threads become personal I tend to switch off, which is what I'm going to do now.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, snowball, No he don't !
Dave has been banned.
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Dave Goldsmith has been banned.
David Goldsmith is alive and well (AFAIK)
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| laundryman wrote: |
| I've done the "easy" route down the Valleé Blanche without any trouble (only time on glacier), but I've had quite a bit more general off-piste experience since then, usually under instruction. I'd only be going back to Zermatt. |
FWIW, I don't consider the VB Classic Route as really representative of off-piste, as it's normapply so heavily ski-pisted (most of the other routes are a different matter), but if you've had more general off-piste experience that should be fine. By "the usual caveats" I meant:
1) be able to ski in control in exactly the guide's tracks when instructed to (e.g. when you need to cross a snow bridge);
2) be able to stop immediately when instructed to (in case the guide spots a crevasse below you that you can't see from above);
3) (not specifically glacier related) be able to cope with variable quality snow - sometimes with a bit of a crust.
The route we did (from between Castor and Pollux down to Furi) was of similar calibre to something like the Petit Envers route down the VB. It took us, the group being fairly experienced but a couple of them were not really very fit, about 2 hours to get down - it we'd pushed it we could probably have done it in under an hour. Snow conditions will vary a huge amount from day to day, but as an example we had some wind-crust coming off the pass, then boot-deep soft snow with a light sun-crust for the next half hour or so, then non-icy hardpack. At the bottom, as we came off of the glacier there was a fun little ice tunnel to crawl through (although you could avoid that and go round the outside), followed by a track which it was important to ski well for a few hunder metres, as there was a fairly fast-flowing stream flowing alongside mostly covered with a snowbridge - it was not clear if you'd avoid getting sucked under if you fell into one of those holes (which could well have been a one-way trip).
Sort of reflecting snowball's general point above though, if you're only going back into Zermatt why take the heli at all? You only get about 5 mins in the heli to the drop off, so it'll be only a half day trip. While I've not done it, I understand that it's a pretty easy climb from the top of Kleine Matterhorn lift to the Breithorn, so hire some touring skis and skins and join a group doing that. AFAIK it's something like a couple of hours?. From what you've posted you're well fit enough for that. You'll get way, WAY more satisfaction from making the summit under your own power, you'll have loads more time to soak in the views, it'll be cheaper - and you'll save the planet as well  (since I know your carbon footprint is of such concern to you ).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, thanks, nice post - plenty to ponder!
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brian
brian
Guest
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FAQ
maybe you should... oh all right fair enough, I modify technique slightly off piste, but still the same basic principles.
NOt entirely sure where that impression came from!
Worth a revisit that site, BTW. I think there are one or two new ones. I don't remember Lurker or 
