 Poster: A snowHead
|
If you are booking as part of a package linen is almost always included if DIY it may or may not be , but you can always add it as an extra in my experience.
The advantage of DIY when self catering is that in my experience you can usually find better quality accommodation and often at a cheaper overall price.
If I was going as a beginner I would certainly concentrate on size of ski school class. Most resorts now have several different ski school operators and maximum sizes of class vary .It is worth it not to be in a huge group.
If going in March I would strongly reinforce the sunglasses / goggles sunscreen lip salve point. Although you can get stormy weather, the sun can be very strong at this time of the year and protection from the first day is important, sunburn is no fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@SnoodyMcFlude, Yawn - 'So many people' - That's 2x people who have an innate desire to be so 'right' all the time and feel its their station in life to nit-pick / misquote anyone else's opinion other than their own (based on their 3million and 56 posts and), a newbie that's contributed nothing to the thread and now your good self . . . in the words of Homer Simpson . . .'you people are idiots'
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I've flown and self-catered with kids many times with no problems. One thing to remember is that there are many different potential successful options suggested here, far more than possible mistakes. I'm sure you'll have a great time whatever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
What’s peoples thoughts on Flaine as a family beginner resort? Crystalski recommended.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Flaine should be fine, especially as you're going outside school holidays. Very purpose built, not a beautiful place, but depending on where you stay, very convenient. Are Crystal offering "beginners weeks" deals?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Just looked randomly at some Crystal s/c deals in Flaine. The information about the apartment is shockingly sparse - doesn't even tell you the size, which immediately tells you a lot. You can click on "more information" but there isn't any. If sleeping arrangements and overall space matter (and you'd be surprised how much clobber gets spread around) you'd need to phone them and ask, I guess. Looking at a separate website for the same accommodation, it's a bedroom with double bed and a pull out sofa bed in the lounge. A common arrangement. If you wanted the boys in bed before you they'd need to share the double, and you the sofa bed. The kitchen does not include an oven, which does limit your catering.
The apartment is 34 square metres - better than some - but why can't Crystal give you relevant info?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My 2p
When looking at apartment size, look at the number of bedrooms, not number of beds. The French are happy using sofa beds so an apartment for 4 may only have one bedroom. I'd suggest you want a bedroom for the kids and one for yourselves.
We've regularly flown and self catered, it's not too difficult but:
Pack one sharp kitchen knife - as said above, the knives in the aprtments generally aren't sharp!
Take one toilet roll for when you arrive, just in case!
Pack a small travel sized washing up liquid, and take 3-5 dishwasher tablets with you
Take a travel size salt and pepper
A couple of stir fry type sauces take no space at all, and or other packet seasoning
Pack a few bin liners - again they take no space
The morning list of essentials is a great idea. That said, lots of ski jackets have pockets specifically for things like lift passes, so once in, do not remove!
Gloves with a wrist safety strap are great so you can take the gloves off without them falling to the ground
Don't leave the ski boots in an unheated boot room
Take some shoes for the walk from apartment to boot room - crocs were almost designed for this!
Remember to drink loads of water - you are at altitude and will dehydrate!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Gloves with a wrist safety strap are great so you can take the gloves off without them falling to the ground
|
But be careful and don't leave them hanging when sneaking off to the side of the piste for a wee.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| What’s peoples thoughts on Flaine as a family beginner resort? Crystalski recommended. |
My son learnt in Flaine. It's excellent for beginners, and as the resort sits in a bowl the kids won't ski down past the village by mistake!
Residence La Foret nd Les Terrasses de Vert are fabulous locations - son would have lessons in the morning then we'd pick him up, have a long lunch break in the apartment and then head out again in the afternoon. We went twice, when he was 5 and 6.
If you can, then Catherine is briliant for private lessons with kids. We did a combination of ESF supplemented with Catherine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| What’s peoples thoughts on Flaine as a family beginner resort? Crystalski recommended. |
Absolutely ideal to fit your family requirements. One of the easiest and most convenient places for introduction and learning to ski, in my view.
We've been often, many times in mid March too, with family, learners, friend groups etc.
Close to Geneva for transfer, exceptional piste gradient, width and topography for learning, all without need of any transport while staying there. Highly recommended, one of the most hassle free places you could pick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| JDL65 wrote: |
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| What’s peoples thoughts on Flaine as a family beginner resort? Crystalski recommended. |
My son learnt in Flaine. It's excellent for beginners, and as the resort sits in a bowl the kids won't ski down past the village by mistake!
Residence La Foret nd Les Terrasses de Vert are fabulous locations - son would have lessons in the morning then we'd pick him up, have a long lunch break in the apartment and then head out again in the afternoon. We went twice, when he was 5 and 6.
If you can, then Catherine is briliant for private lessons with kids. We did a combination of ESF supplemented
with Catherine. |
It’s Residence La Foret that’s been suggested as well located for the ski school and slopes. Two bedroom apartment, south facing balcony. Is La foret a typical ski resort, not that we know what that is!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
The Residence la Foret is an apartment block and is about 100m from the slopes and (IIRC) the ski school meeting points for both ESF and ESI. It's where we stayed both times (3 weeks total).
Flaine isn't the most attractive resort (it certainly isn't chocolate box!) but it does grow on you from a Bauhaus architecture style perspective!
However it is really convenient for GVA, and has all that you need.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don’t know flaine but like pamw says check the apartment size and check again. 2 bed does not mean 2 Bedrooms it means 2 areas to sleep in. Usually one bedroom and a sofa bed arrangement or one bedroom and bunks in the hallway.
We always look for a real bedroom for us and kids and you usually are looking for a 6 person apartment
You may want to pay a slight surcharge for that
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Good call, even if the sleeping is as @Lucywuk thinks I am sure your lads will treat sleeping in bunks as part of their adventure. The key is not to need to keep making up a sofabed. 100m from ski school is perfect and Flaine has a good reputation as a beginner resort though it has challenging stuff too.
If the location allows you to head back to the apartment for lunch that will be great for the budget. Go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Tbh I’ve just looked at the Crystal option and it does seem to say it’s a 2 bedroom apartment (the accommodation website has 1 or 2 bedroom apartments) and the very basic description on Crystal mentions the beds that match the 2 bed.
In that case it’s a good option and one I would book if I was learning to ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Big up-tick for Decathlon - all my base layer / thermals / mid layer and ski socks were Decathlon own label purchases - very reasonably priced and totally fit-for-purpose (compare and contrast a ski buddy's rather more expensive Snow and Rock purchased thermal top and bottoms which he consigned to the bin rather than bother to take home!)
But, definitely buy now - they tend not to restock as the season progresses, at least they used not to and in the current economic climate I doubt they'd be wanting to carry forward dead inventory.
Not to everyone's liking but do consider thin silk gloves combined with weather resistant mittens as an alternative to gloves - the silk liner gloves keep your fingers warm, absorb sweat, and, crucially can be rinsed and dried overnight. Additional advantages with the use of silk liner gloves are your mittens can be removed and put back on with ease, and, the insides of the mittens tend not to end up smelling quite so "interesting" (ie like a wrestlers armpit  )
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 14-01-24 19:53; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Ski in / ski out and close proximity to the ski school meeting point I have found to be pretty important - schlepping halfway across the planet, in unaccustomed ski boots, carrying skis whilst herding cats (2 youngsters) isn't my preferred start to the day, nor I'd guess would be said youngsters' preference.
As to self catering - it's definitely my preference. I'd rather spend €10-€15 per adult (probably more, a year on, inclusive of a half decent bottle of red or two - clearly that pushes the budget!) and a small amount of prep time on a pleasant relaxed meal in our apartment over perhaps 2-3 or more times that amount for something nowhere near as nutritional / enjoyable in a restaurant.
Yes, I accept that shopping can be an annoyance but equally (perhaps more so), so can the hassle of finding a reasonable restaurant, booking a table for a time that suits, herding your party out the door at the right time, etc., etc., plus the financial pain in picking up the check at the end of the meal.
I'm not totally against eating out but on balance I prefer to eat in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Mick_Br wrote: |
I'm not totally against eating out but on balance I prefer to eat in. |
I quite often do both but as with a lot of other people I tend to eat out most often on the last night to save clearing up it's worthwhile booking the restaurant in advance for the last night.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
As total beginners do we need to splash out on lift passes for the week? At £300 each it’s a big expense if they are not needed for the early learning days down on the nursery slopes? Are some of the lower lifts free at Flaine  , or do you need the passes for everywhere?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@Dpetchey, if you are booking beginners lessons you can be guided by the ski school, they sometimes can provide slightly cheaper passes with deals on offer. If for example you go to Flaine you won’t need a Grand Massif pass (includes Samoens, Les Carroz and Morillon also) just a Flaine one. If you progress normally you won’t just stay on Green nursery slopes, they’ll have you on blues certainly around the bowl.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Crystal were offering free child passes with two adult passes last week for many resorts. Also depending on your party make up a family pass (normally two adults two children) will be cheaper than four individual passes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Dpetchey, glad you are homing in on an actual holiday. Plus the way this thread has returned to being constructive.
You are asking good questions. I don't know the specifics of Flaine, but most places only have a couple of pass-free nursery lifts and most beginners will get beyond those by the second day if not the end of the first. As said above you will have to ask the ski school, while it is helpful to use a tour operator like Crystal the downside is finding someone who can answer those resort-specific questions, and for this it would be easiest to find out who they use for instruction (most likely ESF) and phone them - they will have English speaking staff on their enquiry lines.
I echo the advice that you don't need to buy expensive kit, and that if you have the option locally Decathlon is first choice (but other inexpensive chains are OK). They are a French company that pays attention to the technical detail, in fact they have their development centre not far from Flaine (in Passy down in the main valley). One year my wife booked a private lesson and the instructor allocated turned out to be a former World Cup skier who "moonlighted" with some instructing at weekends while her weekday job was road-testing ski and other outdoor gear for Decathlon as part of the development team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| As total beginners do we need to splash out on lift passes for the week? At £300 each it’s a big expense if they are not needed for the early learning days down on the nursery slopes? Are some of the lower lifts free at Flaine , or do you need the passes for everywhere? |
I've not been to Flaine but the lift co appears to offer two choices for that resort: either €53 for a points based beginners pass (https://www.skipass-grand-massif.com/en/beginner-skipass - points are eroded by use of the various lifts it covers, rather than being valid for a set time period), or a general daily pass at €53 per day. There appears to be no financial disadvantage for buying by the day - some resorts taper the equivalent daily rate if you buy at least 6 days up front
Check with the local ski school what they recommend - I've found ESF to be reasonably responsive to such questions. Crystal or other similar TO may offer a deal of some sort although I do recall meeting an Irish couple in Val Thorens on their first ever ski holiday having been talked by their TO into buying passes that covered the entire Three Vallies ski area rather than just Val Thorens (the couple didn't know vthe 3V covers about half a dozen or more resorts spread over quite a large area so complete overkill for a novice skier)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Love self catering. It's nothing like cooking at home and mainly focused around meat and salad (and wine) so very simple. Plus lots of treat snacks! I always draw up a shopping list in the UK in advance with items we need/want and a rough meal plan. This gets split between our family at the supermarket to make life quicker (we regroup and it all goes into one trolley). Obviously we stay flexible and lots of extras are bought. Again, this is all done in a valley supermarket on the way. Only frozen/top ups/fresh bread etc is bought in resort.
We deffo eat out on the last night as a treat (maybe one night in the week too). The last night restaurant is booked from the UK before we go using Tripadvisor and looking at what fits our criteria. Then it's out of the way and we know we have a table (esp if we have to go at Feb half term).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| kettonskimum wrote: |
Love self catering. It's nothing like cooking at home and mainly focused around meat and salad (and wine) so very simple. Plus lots of treat snacks! I always draw up a shopping list in the UK in advance with items we need/want and a rough meal plan. This gets split between our family at the supermarket to make life quicker (we regroup and it all goes into one trolley). Obviously we stay flexible and lots of extras are bought. Again, this is all done in a valley supermarket on the way. Only frozen/top ups/fresh bread etc is bought in resort.
We deffo eat out on the last night as a treat (maybe one night in the week too). The last night restaurant is booked from the UK before we go using Tripadvisor and looking at what fits our criteria. Then it's out of the way and we know we have a table (esp if we have to go at Feb half term). |
I assume you drive down by your message? What sort or driving time are you looking at from the tunnel? And where do you go?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Jude1,
I'd add a packet of sweets or chocolate bard to that list for the kids. Amazing how restorative it can be after a tumble, or some poor weather. .
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Dpetchey, ref ski clothing for you, a few places in the UK offer rental clothing, I haven't used and can't vouch for the stock but a possibility perhaps? I can vouch for Aldi and Mountain Warehouse our kids and cousins have used for 17 years. Goggles: check rental agreements as sometimes these aren't included. Also, we found taking spares of socks and gloves helped as these often get wet and need time to dry (especially if you are tobogganing/snowball fighting). I echo the restorative power of chocolates and sweets - for me never mind the kids 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| I assume you drive down by your message? What sort or driving time are you looking at from the tunnel? And where do you go? |
It's around 10 hours to most of the French resorts - you can make it to Austria, Switzerland in another hour or so, Italy 13+.
There are 3 options really:
1) Get over late afternoon/early evening, drive until early evening/late evening, stay in Hotel and do the last stretch in the morning. Supermarket stop either night before or in the morning. Arrive resort early or late morning depending.
2) Drive overnight straight through. Really need two+ drivers so can nap. We do this.
3) Get early Sat tunnel and drive through the day to reach resort early evening.
Few pros and cons of each.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@ski3, bleah
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Dpetchey wrote: |
I assume you drive down by your message? What sort or driving time are you looking at from the tunnel? And where do you go? |
From leaving Eurotunnel at Coquelles, allow 9-10 hours drive time, plus a break every few hours for pit stops, say 12 hrs in total depending upon how many stops and for how long.
You've towed through France so you'll have a good idea on how long your party is happy to go without a break.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Arctic Roll, yes, it always amuses me some of the cock~eyed interpretation/ correction my spell check brings to my ham-fisted keyboard skill.
Rather cool though, skiing with the Bard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Mick_Br wrote: |
| Dpetchey wrote: |
I assume you drive down by your message? What sort or driving time are you looking at from the tunnel? And where do you go? |
From leaving Eurotunnel at Coquelles, allow 9-10 hours drive time, plus a break every few hours for pit stops, say 12 hrs in total depending upon how many stops and for how long.
You've towed through France so you'll have a good idea on how long your party is happy to go without a break. |
Through many "test" drives Flaine @ 550 miles and all in average (without overnight stop etc) 50mph is reasonably a practical calculator for these trip. And so, 11 hours is on target.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Dpetchey, Yes, since the kids we've always driven hence sticking to France for shortest driving distances. Having been at Feb half term for many years our travel has followed a very consistent (and quite effective) pattern - but I know this won't work for everyone as some prefer not to stop/drive in one go etc. We prefer leisurely:
1. Drive 2.5 hours to tunnel and cross Thursday night - drive around an hour (Arras for example) and stop in a family room (B&B/Ace Hotel)
2. Start around 9am and drive to Macon (near Dijon) - stop there the night/go out for a meal (come back and watch a lot of haggard people arriving much later from a full on slog/Friday after school tunnel crossing
3. Saturday - get on the road absolutely no later than 7am - usually getting into resort by mid to late morning
4. Get any rental stuff done and out of the way immediately (the rental shop is empty but I've seen it mental when walking past at 7pm) - then either ski the afternoon or have a lovely family late lunch before accessing the apartment
Doing the drive like this misses the majority of traffic as you're ahead (until Saturday morning) hence the early start. I guess it's equated to around 10 hours of actual driving from Coquelles (1 hour Thursday night, 6 on Friday and 2.5 Saturday). The 6 hours on Friday has 2 stops - every 2 hours (one short break/one lunch break). I've squeaked the 2.5 in on Saturday as one drive to resort - broken up with a massive supermarket shop in the valley - as we're usually excited and can go a bit longer. Kids in rear with films.
There was one year I did the supermarket shop on the Friday night and left it all in the boot - going on the basis that it was so cold the car was like a fridge. We survived - but not advocating doing that!
The above worked for travelling to Chinaillon (Grand Bornand) x 3 (when kids were small and learning), Les Saisies and Morillon 1100 (Feb half term). Now that the kids are older and more competent we go at Easter whenever possible but higher - Tignes/Val Thorens. Slightly longer drive but in better weather (generally). I have friends who strongly extol the virtues of Easter skiing and we're certainly coming round to that way of thinking.....
The only caveat on driving (for us) is that the return journey is a bit of a ball-ache. We don't set off super early on the return Saturday (although many French do) but opt for leaving after lunch (maybe quick ski in the morning). Hubby is always itching to just get on the road. We do this with one overnight stop on the Saturday (which we classify as 'hell drive day') but countlessly end up in queue after queue on the motorway. It's never been straightforward. We stop at Troyes which should be a 6 hour drive but with queues and breaks ends up more like 9. The Sunday morning drive to the tunnel (9am start) is on virtually empty motorways.
Another thing we like to do, when stopping at budget hotels, is to pop into the local supermarche before checking in and grabbing lots of treat food for the room (and a nice bottle of wine!). There's always hot water and a microwave available but we've also just got cold cuts/sushi.
I guess, for us, the drive and stopovers are just as much part of the trip itself and not just about getting from a to b! Do need to take a bit more time off work though (and ring kids in sick on the Friday!).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
When we drive, we do 2.5 hrs to the tunnel, swap drivers then swap every 2-2.5 hrs so we don’t get too tired. Overnight in Novotel Dijon Sud, adequate restaurant, breakfast included. Set off 9ish to arrive at resort in the afternoon. It’s meant to be a holiday so we stop often to change driver/pee/fill up both selves and car. Same on return. Get home late afternoon.
We used to set off @ cocksfart & do the whole journey in a day but found it took 2 days to recover…
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The OP is not going on a busy weekend, so probably wouldn't encounter big traffic at all if they opt to drive. That's what I'd do - much cheaper for a family of 4 and a bit of planning on food will save a LOT of work and money in resort. Personally I'd not bother with a big supermarket shop in the valley before going up to resort - prior planning can save much of that, and the marginal cost of a resort shop over that of a big valley supermarket is not, in my view, worth the extra considerable effort after a long journey with kids. If you are a super-organised family, or group, all well and good. But after all those hours of driving I find myself wandering like a zombie round the supermarket (even a supermarket I'm familiar with, and know where to find the fresh milk, if they've got any...) picking things up and wondering and dithering between 20 different varieties of tomato.
French shops (big or small) generally have a good selection of tetrapack soups, far better than anything found in the UK and just the job, with baguette and cheese, for lunch. If you only have baguettes left over from breakfast, they'll be fine, toasted or splashed with water and blasted for a couple of minutes in the oven (if you have one..... doesn't work in a microwave).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@pam w, The only difference in a valley based supermarket shop for me (other than price) is that there is more choice. But I certainly know that feeling of zombie shopping knowing that you are tantalisingly close to arriving at the resort. In the early days we just did it in the resort - and I seemed to be the only one with an overflowing trolley while everyone else had baskets!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@kettonskimum, Can I ask a question please ? (and I'm not trying to be controversial or personally annoying - I think most of the thread knows my views on SC already lol) TBF your itinerary is well thought out in terms of 'realistic' travel with kids and would be very similar to my own (ie. lots of stops / breaks rather than a huge schlepp) if I'd ever dared to undertake the same.
HOWEVER when you add the transfer costs up (time off work / fuel / ferries / multiple B&B stops / meals out etc) and offset this against the savings made by self catering etc surely this potentially puts you on an even keel financially with a package holiday?
Appreciate that the travel / road trip aspect may be seen as 'fun / educational' for families, and that SC specifically (although not for me!) preferable in itself; I'm just questioning the commercials. I've done basic DIY family trip spreadsheet exercises in the past but always found this route (and IMO the potential aggro esp with kids in tow) whilst marginally cheaper on occasion, not worth the actual saving or associated faff!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Whenever I traveled with the kids it always worked out cheaper DIY ing than a package when I could find a comparable one. I virtually always flew and rented a car rather than driving the whole way and it was usually at or near school holiday time which may have made a difference. I don't know if it would still be the case now but when I tried to look for packages recently I was better off DIYing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
