 Poster: A snowHead
|
Well all 29 mainland local authorities in level 4 simplifies the travel thing - you can't! Local ski areas for local skiers! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| haggishunter wrote: |
| Further, the general 5 mile rule is from the boundary of a level 3 council, this exemption does not apply to general informal recreation in level 4. |
I can't find this distinction in the guidance - do you have a link? Here is what I was reading: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/#travellingaroundscotland
The exceptions section near the bottom says: "local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 6 people, plus any children under 12, from no more than 2 households) that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area)" and doesn't seem to specify that it only applies to level 3.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| denfinella wrote: |
| haggishunter wrote: |
| Further, the general 5 mile rule is from the boundary of a level 3 council, this exemption does not apply to general informal recreation in level 4. |
I can't find this distinction in the guidance - do you have a link? Here is what I was reading: https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-on-travel-and-transport/#travellingaroundscotland
The exceptions section near the bottom says: "local outdoor informal exercise such as walking, cycling, golf, or running (in groups of up to 6 people, plus any children under 12, from no more than 2 households) that starts and finishes at the same place (which can be up to 5 miles from the boundary of your local authority area)" and doesn't seem to specify that it only applies to level 3. |
It is mentioned in the statutory instruments - but they are a bit of nightmare to locate and merge together the insert this here / there etc ! The golf guidance which originated from the R&A and SportScotland/Scot Gov pre previous bout of level 4 is probably the most applicable. You can not drive across a level 4 local authority boundary for access to outdoor recreation, but you can cross the boundary during the course of said outdoor recreation if for example a golf course straddles 2 local authorities. That presumably thus removes this issue at any level or variation in level across the Moray / Aberdeenshire boundary.
The implications if transferred across for skiing for example at the Lecht is that Moray and Aberdeenshire riders could both visit the ski centre and access the full area, but would have to park in their respective carparks on the correct side of the cattle grid to be strictly legal. Of course a small number of cars can park in Perth and Kinross in the Glenshee Carpark, but the ski area is wholly in Aberdeenshire. These issues don't arise for CairnGorm and Glencoe unless you are planning some sort of adventure to get to the ski area! 
A downside from that guidance which the ski areas are seeking clarity on is whether equipment hire can operate at all. My guess is the answer will be negative, which makes operating ski schools relatively pointless and numbers of learners in the local area would be notably less than those that can ski, which means commercial factors might close the centres at least until there is more natural snow. There probably isn't much point operating a short beginner slope of machine made snow if you can't hire equipment, but it becomes a different equation when there is more skiable terrain available.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@haggishunter, interesting (well, kind of). So there is a discrepancy between the Scottish government guidance documents and the statutory instruments.
As for ski hire, I'm not convinced that it would be commercially viable for the ski centres to operate without equipment hire. Not necessarily because they make lots of money from hire, but because far fewer people own their own equipment, so there'd be a big impact on lift ticket sales. Of course, this in addition to not being able to accept customers from the Central Belt. 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 23-12-20 9:25; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
there’s a huge discrepancy between the ‘guidance’ and what is actually law. for instance the guidance says you cannot travel unless for one of the exceptions...... but what the law actually says- you can’t travel unless for one of the ‘non-exhaustive list’ of excuses. if it’s non exhaustive, maybe my reason for travelling- because i fancy a ski at glencoe is a valid one? who gets to decide that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@malks, where are you based?
Glencoe have already said on their Facebook page that from 26th December, no one from outwith the Highland Council area should travel there, not that there's much snow to ski on yet. Travel restrictions will be enforced and anyone breaking the travel restrictions may lead to Glencoe being closed.
Best case scenario it's only for 3 weeks. Worst case scenario, your skis are already waxed for 2021/22 season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i’m edinburgh based, and won’t be actually be travelling to any skiing venue until things change. As you say, people ignoring the advice could jeopardise the ski centres being allowed to open at all.
but it does annoy me that the law actually isn’t clear and concise.
fingers crossed it is only 3wks, however i’m not holding my breath. and the tier 4 restrictions have already screwed up my kid starting nursery. she can’t start first week back (with wife due back at work) because childcare/ nurseries are only allowed for ‘key workers’ until the 18th...... but us normal people who still need to work, either can’t go back to work or rope in grandparents for child care, kinda defeating the purpose of the travel ban/ no household mixing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Fingers crossed for the Scottish locals, hope you get a massive dump over Christmas!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Indeed, weather models showing a huge amount of potential over the next couple of weeks, here's hoping it happens and that we can all get to enjoy it in the not too distant future.
In terms of the rules, they are not written with snowsports in mind sadly! The council border thing was a blunt tool to try and keep infection rate appropriate tiers across the country (kinda irrelevant from boxing day!).
When deciding whether the "rules" apply to us going skiing I think we need to look at the risk our actions lead to. eg if Aberdeenshire has super low rates and Perth and Kinross has high rates then going to the Shee and mixing the two groups is probably counter productive. It's less a question of "is it legal" as "is it the right thing to do".
Really hoping that the 3 weeks of tier 4 is enough to control things up here, the numbers in SE England are truly scary atm!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cairngorm closing 24th 3pm for foreseeable so not even open to locals. Closure statement issued yesterday. https://www.cairngormmountain.co.uk/cmsl-closure-statement/
Drove past Ft William/Nevis yesterday, looked pretty white all over at ski area but thin I guess. At least there's a start.
Living in Oban I can get to Glencoe despite living in neighbouring Argyll (currently tier 2) which is about an hour away if they remain open but will take that on advice if and when snow conditions allow reasonable skiing. Cant see there being any restictions/checks between Oban and Fort Bill. Perhaps they'll follow Cairngorms lead and close but GC website says opening on boxing day. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Klammertime, There has been a lot of people been asking on Glencoe's Facebook page if they can go there due to their postcode being Argyll and being told no. I won't be going to any of the ski areas until after new year when hopefully things have improved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
The golf guidance I mentioned above is based on draft regulations - however it’s been pointed out that they have remained just that, draft but could be an indication of where things might go if numbers go up here!
For now the statutory instruments that are in force do permit travel across a level 4 council boundary in or out under the terms of the 5 mile rule. It is to a start point up to 5 miles from the council boundary - that’s got some interesting implications in the mountains!
Further you can leave a level 4 council in the course of travelling to another part of a level 4 council.
The up shot is the law at present says people in Argyle & Bute can travel to Glencoe with either A&B and/or Highland in level 4, including transiting through Stirling Council on the A82.
What is not clear is if you can go to a point within 5 miles of your council area by entering the destination council via third council area!
However this COULD change at short notice to the resorts own council area(s) only! The present rules do create some anomalies, someone in A&B can drive through Tyndrum to go to Glencoe but someone living in Tyndrum would be breaking the law to do the same on Boxing Day!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
How about exercising some common sense instead of trying to unpick the bloody rules. Basically rule #1 applies. If they say highland only then it’s highland only.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
This is all starting to sound remarkably like the rules of Mornington Crescent
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| orange wrote: |
| How about exercising some common sense instead of trying to unpick the bloody rules. Basically rule #1 applies. If they say highland only then it’s highland only. |
It's not trying to unpick the rules, its trying to find out what the ACTUAL rules are. A number of guidances have been issued, but it transpires based on draft not the actual statutory instruments. If it says Highland then its only Highland is a simplicity which doesn't exist. the Highland Council will not uniformly be in Level 4 Lockdown, parts of the Highland Council will be in Level 3 Restrictions from 00.01hrs on Boxing Day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| larry1950 wrote: |
| @Klammertime, There has been a lot of people been asking on Glencoe's Facebook page if they can go there due to their postcode being Argyll and being told no. I won't be going to any of the ski areas until after new year when hopefully things have improved. |
I wondered this also, Glencoe has a PH postcode, I assumed that was Perthshire yet as you know Highland region is IV postcode, I'm in IV but still not sure if I can travel to Glencoe. As of boxing day all of Scotland will be in tier 4. So which is it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
A load of bewildering and unintelligible gobbledegook that's what!
It's understandable that people in general want to do the right thing and protect lives. But it's also perfectly understandable that members of a snowsports forum are keen enough to want to go and ski or snowboard - if it's possible to do so safely and legally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Ram80, Using the postcode is a mistake, the PH postcode reaches up past Aviemore but I can't go there, try this link to see if it helps https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-protection-levels
As @mountainaddict, says the regulations are gobbledegook, reluctantly, as we are all moving in to level 4 I think all the ski areas should close and hope for a better New Year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Postcodes are a red herring and don't correspond to council areas. Campbeltown has a PA (Paisley) postcode for example.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 24-12-20 16:06; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Speaking as a former bureaucrat, under normal circumstances governments would start with a policy aim that looks like a tree, then officials and parliamentarians would look deeper and come up with clauses (rules if you like) that cater for all the leaves and roots (as many individual circumstances they can think of). Due to the urgency of the present situation governments can at best only come up with things that affect branches. Meanwhile all the individual leaves are shouting but what about me - I’m a red leaf with a family of buds.
In fact there has only ever been on rule - don’t be a dick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Whitegold, 2010?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
So basically you can't really travel within a level 4 area, certainly not 100miles away.
| Quote: |
you should also keep journeys of any sort within the Level 4 area to an absolute minimum.
|
So probably no skiing in January.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
So now everywhere is level 4 in Scotland with the exception of some of the islands on 3.
There is some clarity on skiing but still undefined for those living in Highland and Aberdeenshire who can attend ski areas if they are local to them and if they're open. If I lived in Tomintoul I would consider Lecht local for example.
The relevant rules parts below -
"To minimise the risk of spreading the virus, you should stay at home or in your local area as much as possible and only travel out with your Local Authority area for essential purposes.
"Outdoor non-contact sports such as golf and fishing are permitted for all age groups."
"Sports organisations will need to refer to guidance produced by their Scottish Governing Body of Sport and ensure they operate in line with the guidance."
So there is not a 1 hour limit on exercise and there is no 5 mile travel limit like we had in March. Tier 4 is not the same as March lockdown (for now). Sturgeon may tighten rules further of course.
I'm snookered personally with the 'essential purposes' bit, I dont think anyone can argue skiing is essential so I can't cross into another local authority area.
No revision for 3 weeks minimum.
Think it's snowing again at elevation too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Temperature really dropping now from the West, nearing -5c at the Glencoe SSC Hut and plenty of showers moving through still on the radar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Incidentally, the reason Campbeltown, and most of the islands have PA postcodes, is because PA is Paisley. Where Glasgow airport is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
A couple of inches have fallen in central Edinburgh in the last two hours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Joy Zipper wrote: |
| A couple of inches have fallen in central Edinburgh in the last two hours. |
It was really quite heavy in the night ! Seems to have settled and a wee thaw come in though. Was hoping to hoof up arthurs seat if it stayed on...............
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Is hill end running
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Nope, it’s closed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Glencoe is joining Glenshee and The Lecht in opening for lift served skiing tomorrow (plateau only).
Meanwhile, for those in Edinburgh or the Lothians, the Pentlands were lovely and white today and the snow should stick around for a good few days I would think, given the forecast. Multiple groups ski touring on Scald Law and the Kips - looked fun!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I’m amazed it was skiable, I ran round caerketton, allermuir etc early doors and it would have been a nice skin but an awful ski in almost all places. Fair play though. Hopefully sticks around and we get a few more inches
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Saw a group with skis on the Campsie Fells today. We were walking/sledging due to kids/lack of skis. To my amateur eye the less steep side (not the bit facing Glasgow) looks grassy enough to be skiable in places (mind the bogs). The south side looks like if there's enough snow to ski you'd probably have too much avalanche risk as it's steep (closer to my definition of 'cliff' than skiable slope)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@orange, that was my untrained assessment too! They must have been keen. Though the Pentlands are of course mostly grassy which helps.
More snow looking likely for much of Scotland away from the coast at various points over the next week, though it's mostly showery stuff so difficult to pin down the detail. Pentlands might get a few more cm on Wednesday night and Thursday daytime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yep that’s what I am banking on, gear ready to go and I can walk from the house. I could have skinned from about 200m up the road yesterday. Also a quick note about carrying gear, probably not relevant here but...I had to attend to a runner yesterday just near the Capelaw summit who had badly twisted his ankle query fracture, he had no spare gear with him. There were 11 people there and not one had a turkey bag or a set of spare thermals or a spare jacket. I was out training and had a full pack so he got a full set of clothes and an emergency blanket. Two of his friends started to walk him down as the rest had bailed as they were all very cold - one had shorts on. So a reminder that when it’s cold, and the windchill was probably about -4, carrying 300g of spare gear could save your life. A Walker was also heli’d off caerketton about 5:30pm with a broken lower leg and they had been lying there for 2 hours. Just a reminder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Ski lots wrote: |
Speaking as a former bureaucrat, under normal circumstances governments would start with a policy aim that looks like a tree, then officials and parliamentarians would look deeper and come up with clauses (rules if you like) that cater for all the leaves and roots (as many individual circumstances they can think of). Due to the urgency of the present situation governments can at best only come up with things that affect branches. Meanwhile all the individual leaves are shouting but what about me - I’m a red leaf with a family of buds.
In fact there has only ever been on rule - don’t be a dick. |
'Under normal circumstances'????
Are we talking a sane, non narcissistic PM and a cabinet that isn't scraping the barrel after ten years of government infighting has sacked anyone competent.
Please tell me you wrote the Tweet 'Imagine working with these truth twisters'
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| orange wrote: |
| I’m amazed it was skiable, I ran round caerketton, allermuir etc early doors and it would have been a nice skin but an awful ski in almost all places. |
I skinned up Allermuir from Swanston on your old skis yesterday morning and your assessment of the conditions was spot on. Great going up but combat skiing most of the way down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
