 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| I'm wondering how the Reps' social skiing days will work? Will they be categorised by skier ability or fitness? Will this be by Freshtracks grading? What if you don’t have one or it is very out of date or you are "self assessed"? If the Rep is not happy about a skiers ability does, or can he ask a skier to leave the group? Or does the Rep leave the group instead? On an Instructor Led Guiding day the guide will often set a simple test early on to confirm ability, I’m assuming the Rep won’t be authorised to do this? I fear that despite not wearing the blue jacket many members will ask “but what do you think...” putting him/her in a difficult position as a de-facto guide. |
It’s not the reps’ day but the members’ and the rep is merely joining as a fellow member.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Alastair Pink and Gerry,
Yes I know that's the plan, but I can't help thinking the members will be expecting something different for their subs
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
@Alastair Pink and Gerry,
Yes I know that's the plan, but I can't help thinking the members will be expecting something different for their subs |
I won’t argue with you on that one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not really sure what I will be getting for my subs. I originally joined so that I could ski with the leader when travelling to Austria with my non-skiing wife and that turned out well. Amazed me that most of the Leaders were based in Switzerland - who can afford a holiday there anymore!
I have used the ILG once this year in Val Thorens (exceptional) and have planned to do so again next March in Tignes. However if I decide to do a Snoworks week I think I will probably not re-subscribe. Not completely ruled out a Freshtracks holiday but not cheap (why subsidise the leader who come along?).
The website used to be informative but is now poor. There are some discounts to be had but I found crystal refused my this year as not travelling on a TUI plane
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| I fear that despite not wearing the blue jacket many members will ask “but what do you think...” putting him/her in a difficult position as a de-facto guide. |
Yes. If and when there is a bad accident you can bet your life that the collective shaky fingers will start pointing at the hapless rep when the authorities turn up.
I never understand that when I see organisations use it. It seems to get used as a "go easy on us we're practically a charity". In business you have to try and make a profit or it isn't long before you are technically insolvent. You'd see a lot more philanthropy from the Club if they really existed for the common good beyond just their members. Then more people might sign up for a reason other than the in resort on mountain stuff.
| Quote: |
| The website used to be informative but is now poor. |
It really is poor. It looks unloved. Where's the news? The editorial? The offers? The buzz? It should be simply brimming over with stuff that would interest members and general skiers alike. Lazy, lazy, lazy.
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| Pruman wrote: |
I never understand that when I see organisations use it. It seems to get used as a "go easy on us we're practically a charity". In business you have to try and make a profit or it isn't long before you are technically insolvent. You'd see a lot more philanthropy from the Club if they really existed for the common good beyond just their members. Then more people might sign up for a reason other than the in resort on mountain stuff.
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Why "beyond" the interest of the members?
Almost any "club" are all about its members. It's a collective, and nothing more.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| Davina Goldballs wrote: |
Personally, as a scribbler with a 43-years reputation (of sorts) in ski magazines and other media, I prefer to write under my own identity, 'raising reasonable and responsible questions'. The important thing is to offer a right of response (and social media is absolutely perfect for that). Some of the above was covered in this posting, almost 4 years ago ...
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Yeah, there's nothing you like better than to gather together a partisan audience, tell lies about someone or an organisation then 'invite' them to respond. The sort of people who belive what you say are as fundamentally dishonest as you are. |
Bearing in mind that I have a track record of delivering honest factual journalism for the Ski Club of Great Britain for six successive editors, over a period of some 30 years from 1976, it's laughably idiotic of you to accuse me of being a fundamentally dishonest liar.
Back in 2015, when you were approaching 7 years service as a SCGB director you were asked 10 questions concerning the Club's finances and activities ...
| Quote: |
TEN QUESTIONS FOR GERRY AITKEN
1. GA stated the case for increased SCGB representation in the mountains in his inaugural electoral address to SCGB members in 2005, as a route to increased membership. Has this recruitment resulted? Recent SCGB membership figures appear to be faked at “29,000”, “30,000” etc. The clear statistical evidence prior to 2005 was that the more the SCGB spent on repping, the fewer the new members recruited in the mountains (a fall of over 70% in annual new member recruitment by reps, over 19 years from 1992 (1108 new members) to 2011 (229 new members) - against a huge increase in expenditure). The figure for 2005 (which GA could have used as a benchmark) was 699 new members.
2. New media. Gerry Aitken was chairman of the New Media Task Group, and the SCGB was reportedly investing £100,000 p.a. in website improvements. Was this money productively spent?
3. Social media. The SCGB's public chat forum, following its 9-year shut down from 2004, has extremely low traffic - compared to its huge success in 2002-4. Was GA a supporter of excluding the public, or an opponent? What work has he done to restore the SCGB's vital need for popularity in social media? The open public forum was enormously popular – thousands of participants, hundreds of postings daily - and cost the Club virtually nothing to operate.
4. News coverage. GA personally promised in 2006, as chairman of the New Media Task Group, that the SCGB would have the best news generation in the UK. This has not materialised. Is there a reason for this?
5. Verbier Challenge Cup. A SCGB event which GA helped organise. This, and the more famous Luttmann Johnson SCGB race in Zermatt, have vanished. Given these cuts, the slump in new member recruitment, the withdrawal of SCGB reps from proficiency-testing of skiers, the obsolescence of the SCGB snow reporting, how is the huge cost of SCGB repping justified? Especially the cost of SCGB ‘ambassadors’ in France?
6. The SCGB Environmental Fund. As things stand, c.£60,000 of this c.£100,000 fund is unaccounted for. Concerns have been expressed (since 2006) about the administration of this fund and the absence of annual accounting. This matter has been raised time and time again. What has GA personally done about this?
7. Vanessa Mae is the cover star of the current issue of the SCGB magazine. GA defended this, on the basis that the FIS/IOC did not know about her misdemeanours (faked race results) prior to the Sochi Olympics. But the SCGB magazine was worked on 6 months after those Olympics, and well after Mae was under investigation. Does GA concede that a publishing/editorial error was made here?
8. False snow reports repeatedly published for Scottish ski areas – wrong snow depths, apparently guessed – and mountains repeatedly reported “closed” all weekend, when they are open. This has continued over 3 seasons to 2014-5. What is GA’s position on this?
9. The SCGB’s long history of promoting or directly selling ski helmets, based on false information about head injuries, and its recent statement that everyone should be wearing helmets. What is GA's position on helmets, and what truths the SCGB should be saying to skiers?
10. The array of false audience information – statistics – published to sell Ski Club TV video advertising [“Ski TV is watched by 33,500 subscribers”, Nov 2011], SCGB magazine advertising (incorrect ABC audit data recently published) and website advertising [“2 million unique users per annum” – 2013 SCGB media pack] and so on. Does GA have a position on the SCGB's trading standards/ethics? |
Source: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=94856&start=3800#2673652
I don't recall you addressing a single one of those questions, but you're welcome to have a pop now.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Bearing in mind that I have a track record of delivering honest factual journalism for the Ski Club of Great Britain for six successive editors, over a period of some 30 years from 1976, it's laughably idiotic of you to accuse me of being a fundamentally dishonest liar.
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I find the most interesting point of your post, is that you make it clear that whilst working for the ski club, you were guided, managed and ultimately controlled by those six editors who would have had final say over any article you produced.
It's when you do not have that sort of control that I find you cannot be trusted.
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^ DG for PM!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| richjp wrote: |
I find the most interesting point of your post, is that you make it clear that whilst working for the ski club, you were guided, managed and ultimately controlled by those six editors who would have had final say over any article you produced.
It's when you do not have that sort of control that I find you cannot be trusted. |
Where you place your trust is obviously your prerogative.
Here's a triple update ... obviously not to be trusted ...
"SKI CLUB OF GB CEO 'BOOMERANGS' TO LONDON BUS TOUR CO."
https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/1861738897262322/
SCGB STRATEGY ...
"Chief Executive Officer Vacancy"
https://www.skiclub.co.uk/about-the-ski-club/jobs/chief-executive-officer-vacancy
BEARING IN MIND ...
https://www.planetski.eu/news/11899
"The Ski Club itself is at a crossroads and some even question its relevance.
It's former CEO, Darren Neylon, resigned at the end of April after just over a year in the job.
A search for his successor is underway and we understand the first round of interviews took place last week." [24-28 June 2019]
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It will be very interesting to see how many of the current 18 Ski Club Rep Resorts will be happy to welcome a rep back after this trial winter.......
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| skilegs wrote: |
| It will be very interesting to see how many of the current 18 Ski Club Rep Resorts will be happy to welcome a rep back after this trial winter....... |
Why do you think they'll care?
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You know it makes sense.
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With the role of the rep now downgraded to being no more than another member in resort, plus giving advice that anyone with any common sense can find for themselves, surely they will look at their budgets and consider what value they are getting from hosting a rep.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Are the resorts "hosting a rep" from a financial stand point?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Historically they always have.......
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skilegs wrote: |
| With the role of the rep now downgraded to being no more than another member in resort, plus giving advice that anyone with any common sense can find for themselves, surely they will look at their budgets and consider what value they are getting from hosting a rep. |
They do all this for the snow reports and don't really care much beyond that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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From the Ski Club today: New Representation Service UPDATE
Following our announcement on 2nd July regarding the change from Leading to providing reps in resort, we are now able to provide further details about how the new service will operate.
The reason for the change is to safeguard Leaders and the future of the Ski Club against the increasing risk of potential prosecution, and therefore we have no choice but to halt the service; both on- and off-piste.
We can however go back to our roots and remain a Ski Club: where members of the Club meet and practice their sport and passion together, much as we might with a running or cycling club.
From a member’s perspective, there will not be much change. You can, as before, meet up with other Club members in resort and go skiing. The difference is that there will be no single person taking responsibility for on-snow activities. Ski Club Reps and other members will simply go skiing.
Social skiing refers to members gathering together to ski without either a professional or an individual promoted as being responsible for the group. It may be as adventurous as the group wishes, without the constraints of a programme. Reps may join other members skiing as they wish, but purely in a social capacity as an ordinary member, with no on-snow responsibility. Any member is welcome to volunteer to become a rep.
The purpose of our Reps is to be present in resort, to act as the focal point for the Club’s activities off-snow, building and maintaining relationships with local businesses and communities.
We believe members will continue to receive considerable benefit and enjoyment skiing socially together, as already occurs to a significant extent in some resorts, notably Val d’Isere and Zell am See.
We see this change as a huge opportunity. It is certainly not about stopping a service helping members get the most of their trip to the mountains: indeed, it is quite the opposite. It allows for any member to be involved and for us to significantly expand the service to any resort around the world where Ski Club members are present.
We also hope to further promote the Instructor-led Guiding (ILG) service, providing opportunities for both social skiing and to learn and develop your skills with local instructors and mountain guides. ILG will continue to support the rep service as we extend it across our French resorts.
We will continue to run what was the Ski Club Leaders’ course (indeed probably the best quality course available anywhere), for those wishing to obtain training in mountain craft, avalanche safety and developing off-piste skiing skills. We will also be offering more mountain craft and avalanche training with Bruce Goodlad and Caroline Elliott to continue the Ski Club’s position at the forefront of on- and off-piste mountain safety and education.
Separately, we will define the process of training our new reps, to take place in the autumn, ready for this coming season.
We look forward to seeing how popular this iteration of the service becomes, reflecting the changes that this service has experienced on a regular basis over the last 50-60 years. We welcome your input, feedback and ideas.
What is the role of the Rep?
The Ski Club Resort Rep is the face of the Ski Club in resort. The role is to ensure that Ski Club Members have the most enjoyable time possible, whilst promoting the principles of safe, responsible and enjoyable recreational skiing.
The Ski Club Rep offering will allow us go back to our roots of being a club, facilitating social events and member meetups, allowing us to be more inclusive.
The Rep role includes meeting members, making introductions, arranging a programme of social events, and encouraging the use of and helping to book mountain guides and instructors for Members, whilst building and supporting communities of Ski Club members in that resort.
Are Reps allowed to suggest itineraries, routes or give directions on the mountain?
Can I still ski off-piste with Ski Club members?
Any member of a social ski group may suggest plans for the day on the mountain. When on-snow, Reps are skiing as individual Ski Club members and are not responsible for any on-snow activity, including off-piste skiing.
If a Social Ski group decides they are adequately experienced and prepared, they may ski off-piste at their own risk, as would any other group of skiers choosing to ski together.
Will this affect my Freshtracks holiday?
Your Rep will continue to act as the focal point for your Freshtracks holiday, but they won’t lead on snow. Instead, they will ski with your group socially, as they would if they were a member on a trip.
Will Members still receive their Ski Profile?
Reps will give Ski Profiles to each Member at the end of a Freshtracks holiday. This is to enable the Member to choose the most appropriate holiday the following winter. One of the most important benefits of the Club is bringing people of a similar level to ski together.
In which resorts will Reps be based?
We hope to run the Reps offering in the 18 resorts where we previously had Ski Club Leaders:
Austria: Ischgl, Kitzbuhel, Mayrhofen, Obergurgl, Zell am See
Switzerland: Davos, Grindelwald, Klosters, Murren, Saas Fee, Verbier, Wengen, Zermatt
Italy: Cervinia, Sauze d’Oulx
Andorra: Soldeu - Grandvalira
USA: Jackson Hole
Canada: Whistler
We will also be looking to see where we can expand the programme, in order to allow more of our members to take advantage of the service.
We will also continue, and hopefully expand, the Instructor-led Guiding service currently provided in eleven resorts across France.
Will current Leaders automatically become Reps?
All current Leaders will automatically become Reps, unless they choose otherwise. The role of Rep is also open to any member who would like to experience being a rep on a Freshtracks holiday or in one of our resorts. Any member is welcome to apply.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 20-07-19 18:37; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Is SCGB lowering the subscription in view of the reduced service?
Must admit if I was a rep 'd be making my excuses when the opportunity to social ski off piste with my fellow members came up given the blurriness of that line and the BSy way the question is answered in FAQs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with Dave, I think the fuzzyness is creating more problems for the "club" than it solves although I notice they are not basing anyone in France. This is not how normal ski clubs operate. It all sounds well dodgy.
I imagine leaders whove forked out $$$ for the training will be a bit pissed to be transformed into resort reps.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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With the update, it will be interesting to see how things actually turn out in practice - will the reps simply be social ambassadors or will they do what they've always done (perhaps with more freedom) but without wearing a blue jacket.
If it's the former, then the raison d'etre for the SCGB will have largely disappeared and I suspect resorts will gradually stop offering ot put up reps for free and members will leave in droves.
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^ when a snowboarder speaks, no one bothers to listen.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women, do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general?
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general? |
Yes they do. What about old men who work as accountants?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly.... |
He can.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gerry wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general? |
Yes they do. What about old men who work as accountants? |
everybody has, and should. Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on.
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general? |
Yes they do. What about old men who work as accountants? |
everybody has, and should. Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
whose sock are you kosmos? English clearly isn't your first language, so I'm guessing Stanton/Nigel, or maybe Haggis_troll.
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You know it makes sense.
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I see the second thread started by the SCGB is evolving into the usual toxic dialogue of abusive responses from its representatives.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general? |
Yes they do. What about old men who work as accountants? |
everybody has, and should. Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
whose sock are you kosmos? English clearly isn't your first language, so I'm guessing Stanton/Nigel, or maybe Haggis_troll. |
Completely wrong, I'm in nobodies socks/boots. English is my second/third, I'm from Lithuania.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| Gerry wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| @gerry, you are so pathetic, I bet you can't even put your skis on an edge properly, but sure you know what is superior way to go down the hill. What about kids and women do they have a right to speak, to ride the mountain, to exist in general? |
Yes they do. What about old men who work as accountants? |
everybody has, and should. Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
Are any of the people you are abusing doing any harm to you? And what do you do for a living that’s so amazing? In fact, what is so special about you that you can look down other people?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
I know a few accountants and they are far from boring!!
Tell us what fascinating job you have kosmoz. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kosmoz,
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English is my second/third,
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Irrelevant. Rubbish either way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| martinm wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
I know a few accountants and they are far from boring!!
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So true. My accountant’s last bill made me laugh so much I actually cried.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| martinm wrote: |
| kosmoz wrote: |
| Why accountants? They are just the most bland people around and I am simply amused by the fact, that those bland and oppressed people has a very strong need to gather in all kinds of clubs, wants to belong to groups, then starts playing with hierarchy inside those clubs/groups, implement internal rules, then internal politics and so on. |
I know a few accountants and they are far from boring!!
Tell us what fascinating job you have kosmoz. |
I'm the president of built-in microwave oven's club, that't pretty much at the level of excitingness as skiing
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Gerry wrote: |
So true. My accountant’s last bill made me laugh so much I actually cried. |
+2 
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| kosmoz wrote: |
| I'm the president of built-in microwave oven's club, that't pretty much at the level of excitingness as skiing |
Ah, so a cabbie then. You are Stantit and I claim my $5 (don't want sterling as it's worthless innit?)
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| LaForet wrote: |
| I see the second thread started by the SCGB is evolving into the usual toxic dialogue of abusive responses from its representatives. |
It looks as though this thread was started by a ski club member not by the SCGB itself as you have suggested. There are plenty of ski club members on this board myself included. I doubt if the other thread you are presumably referring to was started by the ski club either.
From what I have seen the toxic dialogue is usually started by Snowheads members some of whom do not like it when they get a response, kozmos being a classic example.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@richjp, and if you look back at LaForet’s comments re our club you’ll notice a high level of toxicity.
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FAQ
). If one or more skiers in the group are unhappy with a destination or route then they are entirely free to leave the group at any point, it's their choice. I definitely don't think it's for the Rep to ask anyone to leave the group, that would put them in a leadership role. On the other hand as you suggest the Rep (like any other member) is free to leave the group. 
