 Poster: A snowHead
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| PJSki wrote: |
| I don't ski with the leaders every year but I'm happy to pay the £6.00 cost. Goldsmith, just leave if you don't like it. |
I do not ski with the leaders either but do not begrudge the cost of the leading operation. I think SCGB membership is terrific value for money. Every year my membership secures discounts to a value which is many times the cost of family membership. I suppose it might be different, though, if you had not skied since the days of leather boots and wooden skis ...
PJSki makes an excellent suggestion. Come on CG, please leave. The rules helpfully state:
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| •Members may terminate their membership at any time in writing or by phoning the Membership Department |
One phone call, that's all it would take.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DT68, no point in not having the link - that would be illogical, since it's such a fine pic of Frank. I've removed the photo from the page, but inserted the link.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The service is costing ludicrous amounts of money (c. £250,000 per annum) for the benefit of 10%-15% of members.
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hmm, what about all those non-members who ski for the free 1 day and then join (and get 18 months for 12?) The leading service thus becomes one hell of a lot cheaper than mis-placed social media advertising. Although snow|Heads makes up for some of it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Comedy Goldsmith, just more revenge on your part then? I'm aware that you used to pretty much terrorise and bully the staff and officers and that you are no longer able to do this. In other words, you now have next to no influence within the club.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 18-03-13 17:22; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin, I thought you'd been following the argument.
In 2011, 229 new members were recruited by SCGB reps.
In 1992, 1108 new members were recruited by SCGB reps.
One of the problems is that non-members on these 'free trial' days sometimes sue the Club (perhaps they have less loyalty).
The lawsuit which partly prompted the Ski Club to close the public forum in Feb 2004 - it had lots of back-of-house relevance to the discussion about off-piste repping in the months leading up to MO Day - was being fought by a non-member who was apparently on his second day of freebieing with the Club. He'd been seriously injured, and blamed the rep for this.
How mad does it have to get?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 18-03-13 10:25; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DT68 wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| I don't ski with the leaders every year but I'm happy to pay the £6.00 cost. Goldsmith, just leave if you don't like it. |
I do not ski with the leaders either but do not begrudge the cost of the leading operation. I think SCGB membership is terrific value for money. Every year my membership secures discounts to a value which is many times the cost of family membership. I suppose it might be different, though, if you had not skied since the days of leather boots and wooden skis ...
PJSki makes an excellent suggestion. Come on CG, please leave. The rules helpfully state:
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| •Members may terminate their membership at any time in writing or by phoning the Membership Department |
One phone call, that's all it would take. |
Well said but he won't leave because he has become consumed with the need for revenge.
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Well said but he won't leave because he has become consumed with the need for revenge. |
As I say, how mad does it have to get?
I say "challenge". He says "revenge". Make up your own mind. Please press the 'vote button' now.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
boredsurfin, I thought you'd been following the argument.
In 2011, 229 new members were recruited by SCGB reps.
In 1992, 1108 new members were recruited by SCGB reps.
One of the problems is that non-members on these 'free trial' days sometimes sue the Club (perhaps they have less loyalty).
The lawsuit which partly prompted the Ski Club to close the public forum in Feb 2004 - it had lots of back-of-house relevance to the discussion about off-piste repping in the months leading up to MO Day - was being fought by a non-member who was apparently on his second day of freebieing with the Club. He'd been seriously injured, and blamed the rep for this.
How mad does it have to get? |
One case that the club won and all costs, I'm told, were met by insurance. I've also been told the insurance is very cheap. So not as bleak as you make out, but then you are a nasty little propagandist.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 18-03-13 17:21; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PJSki wrote: |
I've also been told the insurgence is very cheap.
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Blimey, things are getting nasty.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Of some relevance to the discussion of SCGB reps/leaders taking skiers off-piste this winter:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/membersonly/leadingservice/preregister.aspx#.UUbUdzep440
2012/3 Participation Statement, to be agreed on pre-booking a day's skiing with the SCGB
This text appears on the online booking form:
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Participation statement: Your participation in skiing/boarding led by a volunteer from the Ski Club is conditional upon your prior agreement to the following:
1. You appreciate that the Ski Club Leader is a volunteer with no formal qualifications as an instructor or mountain guide.
2. You also appreciate that the Ski Club Leader undertakes no obligations to you concerning your safety for which you remain solely responsible.
3. You must ensure that equipment is in good working order before setting off for the day and that you are suitably clothed for the proposed itinerary and all possible weather conditions. You must decide whether or not a particular run or route is within your competence.
4. In the event of your being injured as a result of the negligence of the Ski Club Leader, you waive any right to claim compensation for such injury.
5. This agreement is regulated by the law of England and Wales. |
Any comments on point 4? In relation to the law of England and Wales?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Well said but he won't leave because he has become consumed with the need for revenge. |
As I say, how mad does it have to get?
I say "challenge". He says "revenge". Make up your own mind. Please press the 'vote button' now. |
I suspect that a therapist would not distinguish between the two. The correct diagnosis is probably "OCD".
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Well, from the comments above (which show remarkable consistency with comments on other channels), I think we can deduce with virtual certainty that PJSki = Gerry Aitken, SCGB director.
But who is DT68?
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You know it makes sense.
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Comedy Goldsmith, Hmmm... you are looking for someone born in 1968 with the initials D and T. Call me Sherlock if you like. I reckon Dylan Thomas?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frustrating thread this  ... it keeps popping-up so tried reading from the start, but lots of posts subsequently deleted by Comedy Goldsmith.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| Well, from the comments above (which show remarkable consistency with comments on other channels), I think we can deduce with virtual certainty that PJSki = Gerry Aitken, SCGB director. |
An alternative explanation could be that it is all down to the effect you have on people.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| 3. You must ensure that equipment is in good working order before setting off for the day and that you are suitably clothed for the proposed itinerary and all possible weather conditions. You must decide whether or not a particular run or route is within your competence. |
The ski club provides & issues trancievers for 'off piste' days.
Surley they have a duty of care to ensure the trancievers work and the batteries are renewed as appropriste 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abj wrote: |
| ... lots of posts subsequently deleted by Comedy Goldsmith. |
Apologies for that. There was an issue (explained somewhere in the thread, I think you'll find). I'm in occasional discussion with admin about restoring that material (which may have been automatically archived by snowHeads).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| PJSki, I'm absolutely not going to leave the SCGB. |
More money than sense then?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| abj wrote: |
| ... lots of posts subsequently deleted by Comedy Goldsmith. |
Apologies for that. There was an issue (explained somewhere in the thread, I think you'll find). I'm in occasional discussion with admin about restoring that material (which may have been automatically archived by snowHeads). |
Is this the same admin who once said your skin was 'so thick that even reality was unable to penetrate it'? And didn't he also say that your ideas for snowheads were 'at best illogical and at worst insane'? Yep, you tried to take over this site and got told where to go.
It's also worth remembering that you have publicly stated that the silent majority of ski club members agree with you. You're just not all there, pal.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 18-03-13 11:24; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| feef wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| PJSki, I'm absolutely not going to leave the SCGB. |
More money than sense then? |
And a real thirst for revenge. It's all because he didn't get the editorship of the club mag.
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Thank god , it would be like war and peace.
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The length, not the quality.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DT68 wrote: |
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| Well, from the comments above (which show remarkable consistency with comments on other channels), I think we can deduce with virtual certainty that PJSki = Gerry Aitken, SCGB director. |
An alternative explanation could be that it is all down to the effect you have on people. |
Goldsmith will bring out the worst in people because he's so infuriating to deal with.
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No, that was the late Sir James Goldsmith. Check out his history of 'dealings' with (lawsuits against) Private Eye.
No relation. No shared DNA whatsoever.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PJSki, feef, filthyphil30k, DT68 to the casual observer and believer in free speech, you're not doing the club any favours by ganging up on CG like this. Presumably the club could refuse to let him renew membership? After all a principle's not a principle until it costs you money...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| shep wrote: |
| PJSki, feef, filthyphil30k, DT68 to the casual observer and believer in free speech, you're not doing the club any favours by ganging up on CG like this. Presumably the club could refuse to let him renew membership? After all a principle's not a principle until it cost you money... |
Hmm. It must be Stockholm Syndrome. Or it could be that CG does indeed provoke a unity of response by others (and we have as much right to free speech on the subject as him). After all, CG's entire existence seems to be devoted to slagging the Club off without offering one constructive or realistic suggestion for its improvement. Of course, the Club could refuse to renew his membership - but would you not (in those circumstances) also accuse it of stifling free speech?
Although he seems to see himself as the Club's self-appointed Messiah-in-waiting, I am genuinely struggling to understand why CG remains a member - the Club is plainly a disappointment to him at every level and the cause of much personal distress (and it is far from obvious that he even still skis). He would surely do better to turn his energies elsewhere and leave sad and foolish people like me, PJSki, feef, and filthyphil30k to rejoice in our membership of such a hollow and inadequate institution.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
2012/3 Participation Statement, to be agreed on pre-booking a day's skiing with the SCGB
This text appears on the online booking form:
| Quote: |
Participation statement: Your participation in skiing/boarding led by a volunteer from the Ski Club is conditional upon your prior agreement to the following:
...
4. In the event of your being injured as a result of the negligence of the Ski Club Leader, you waive any right to claim compensation for such injury.
5. This agreement is regulated by the law of England and Wales. |
Any comments on point 4? In relation to the law of England and Wales? |
Yes - it is not worth the paper it is written on and has no effect at all, due to the provisions of s.2(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which states:
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| A person cannot by reference to any contract term or to a notice given to persons generally or to particular persons exclude or restrict his liability for death or personal injury resulting from negligence. |
I would agree that the SCGB should not be using a participation statement which includes the offending text.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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DT68, obviously there's quite a lot to unwrap there. As recently stated, I'm reluctant to debate with a lottery ticket ... who clearly reveals himself to be a SCGB member.
If you have a vested interest in the SCGB budget for expenses-paid skiing - that includes c.£250,000 for the leaders, plus huge expenditure (undisclosed) for marketing, schmoozing, ski testing, etc. etc. etc. - then please declare it. Thousands of people do not renew membership of the SCGB because they don't obtain the value/relevance. If you're a traveller on the bloated cruiseliner/gravy train/gravy-train-with-wings-and-jet-engines ... that constitutes the SCGB in 2013 it's relevant to the discussion.
| DT68 wrote: |
| ... it is far from obvious that he even still skis ... |
I could cite about 15 witnesses to my skiing in Austria from 6-9 February. Among them was a racy hotel proprietor who led the group (in a fashion far superior and more amusing than the average TO rep in a French resort) down countless slopes across the Ski Welt. Now, it was a legal requirement for this gentleman to check my passport upon arrival. I'm sure he'd be happy to clarify the matter. But you'll need to PM me - or him - your own identity.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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shep, + 1
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
DT68, ...
If you have a vested interest in the SCGB budget for expenses-paid skiing - that includes c.£250,000 for the leaders, plus huge expenditure (undisclosed) for marketing, schmoozing, ski testing, etc. etc. etc. - then please declare it. Thousands of people do not renew membership of the SCGB because they don't obtain the value/relevance. If you're a traveller on the bloated cruiseliner/gravy train/gravy-train-with-wings-and-jet-engines ... that constitutes the SCGB in 2013 it's relevant to the discussion. |
Sorry - I have no such interest (vested or otherwise). I have not skied with a Leader since 1999.
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| DT68 wrote: |
| ... it is far from obvious that he even still skis ... |
I could cite about 15 witnesses to my skiing in Austria from 6-9 February. Among them was a racy hotel proprietor who led the group (in a fashion far superior and more amusing than the average TO rep in a French resort) down countless slopes across the Ski Welt. Now, it was a legal requirement for this gentleman to check my passport upon arrival. I'm sure he'd be happy to clarify the matter. But you'll need to PM me - or him - your own identity. |
Terrific news - is there any chance of a more up-to-date photo?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| shep wrote: |
| Unfortunately some of your (collective) posts seem to be more personal insults than "on the subject". I don't recall him resorting to the same tactic. |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DT68 wrote: |
| ... is there any chance of a more up-to-date photo? |
There might be a CCTV shot of me leaving a gondola station, or exceeding the 90km/h speed limit on a blue run, but that's probably all you'd get. Please apply to the appropriate authorities.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Comedy Goldsmith, I shall have to control my curiosity. Were you skiing on rocker skis?
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IS RUNNING THE SCGB GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH?
A tragic story of attempted suicide
In previous postings, I've indicated that the golden years of the Club were those when it had a clear purpose, an afinity and an empathy with British skiers - from 1903 through two world wars, and up to the early 1960s. After that, the membership went into real (and more importantly relative) decline through the boom decades of skiing. Its membership peaked in 1960, when it accounted for 1 in 4 British skiers (currently 1 in 40) and led the way in everything to do with recreational skiing.
In 1969-70 the club was run by an enterprising man called Rob Tillard, who had a career developing businesses such as Jobs in the Alps (an employment agency later emulated by natives.co.uk). More significantly, he wrote and published a brilliant and very successful set of paperback ski guides to on/off piste runs in famous resorts (well worth securing on the secondhand market). Tillard subsequently published (privately) a hardback autobiography of his decades in skiing called Ski Story 1950-2000. The decline and renaissance of the Ski Club of Great Britain.
There are some interesting chapters describing Tillard's experiences as Club Secretary, including 'Project 70, Crisis at Zermatt' and 'The end of the affair'. Well worth a read, given the passing of over 40 years. Page 148:
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| Fed up with the incessant intrigues, backbiting and lack of support, I drafted a letter to the Chairman of Council warning that, after the AGM in October, I intended to hand in my resignation to take effect when my current term of office ran out at the end of March 1971. |
In the end - Tillard is very candid and honest about it, if somewhat self-focused - he was sacked, and reproduces the letter that terminated his employment. I won't snip from much more of the book - it's an essential read in terms of understanding the perspective - except to say that his crisis culminated in buying a single ticket at Victoria Station to Zermatt (yes, it was possible then), where he took a ride up the Gornergrat cog railway to the top and hiked to the summit of the mountain above the hotel/observatory. That is exactly where he had planned to take his life, sitting with his feet dangling over a cliff, psyching himself for the moment, with only the greatest mountain panorama on earth as his witness.
You'll share my relief that he was persuaded not to take this action by a German tourist who didn't realise what he was up, approached him and asked "Excuse me, please can you identify those peaks over there?". That little trigger of conversation released Rob Tillard from a long journey on which he had spoken to no one ... since buying that ticket at Victoria. He returned to Zermatt and continued his life.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 18-03-13 14:09; edited 2 times in total
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
IS RUNNING THE SCGB GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH?
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CG, an excellent question. I would hope (and have no reason to doubt) that procedures are now in place to protect members of staff from those who, and those things which, might otherwise threaten their sanity. Could that explain some of the restrictions which exist in relation to use of the SCGB forum?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Having worked for several ski businesses in my twenties - retail, Scottish ski school, London artificial ski slopes (Alexandra Palace, Lord's cricket ground), ski magazine - what I appreciated was reality, truth, enterprise, ambition, service, targets, response, creativity, progress etc. SCGB staff are intelligent and rational human beings, like anyone else, and should be treated accordingly. The Club needs to build genuine careers for people, or jack it in.
It's no exaggeration to say that the Club has existed in a parallel universe for 4-5 decades now, catering (these days) for a tiny percentage of the British ski population with skewed demographics. A recent youngish candidate for SCGB Council mentioned that something should be done about the Club's average membership age of 50 (and that's with children up to 24 included in family memberships - unique, I think, for any national UK sports organisation). I'm wondering what would be the average age, if the maximum age for children had remained 18 (when kids generally leave their household units and go into higher education or work).
Read Rob Tillard's book and you'll see that he was arguing for an intelligent analysis and solution ('Project 70') in the year that man landed on the Moon. The reactionaries broke him.
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CG, I see you dodged the question about the SCGB forum ...
| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
It's no exaggeration to say that the Club has existed in a parallel universe for 4-5 decades now, catering (these days) for a tiny percentage of the British ski population with skewed demographics.
Read Rob Tillard's book and you'll see that he was arguing for an intelligent analysis and solution ('Project 70') in the year that man landed on the Moon. The reactionaries broke him. |
So what was the renaissance of Tillard's title, which (I presume) followed the decline which saw him leave?
PS: it is a bit difficult to read the book if (as you say) it was only privately published. We shall have to rely on you to feed us titbits as you teasingly unfold the great conspiracy before our eyes.
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FAQ
