 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Good day at Glencoe today. 2-3 inches of fresh snow overnight made for fresh tracks. Probably only 20-30 people on the hill today, which is a shame when the snow cover remains extensive on the upper mountain. Main Basin, Happy Valley, Rannoch Glades, Spring Run, Flypaper and Baiiles were all in fine condition.
Report and pics here http://www.winterhighland.info/publicreports/index.php?50,2259
Making some late season turns high on the Flypaper
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
It's really sad that so few people are skiing at the end of the season. I've recently heard about one skier who won't even ski somewhere like LDA in March because it's 'too late int he season' - how can we educate these idiots???
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
easiski, we don't, keep the masses going at half term means lovely uncrowded slopes at Easter as I found in Stuben last week 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
kitenski, I knowk, but we have to think of the business side for the resorts and lift companies. If no-one goes skiing they will close earlier and earlier.  I dread to think how much the leccy bill is for uplift.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The trouble is the earlier resorts close, people tend to stop skiing even earlier still. There seems to be a bit of a mind-set which says, when do they usually close, early May, hmm prob not worth it after mid April then? Now it's normally close mid April, hmm prob not worth it after late March then? 
Back to the here and now and there was a further dusting of fresh for the mountains overnight. Top to Daylodge riding remains available on CairnGorm this week, but the Carpark Tow and Fiacaill Ridge Poma wont run on the lower slopes mid-week, unless higher lifts are shut due to weather or demand warrants it, Funicular is running non stop bottom to top.
^ Fresh Tracks on the Coronation Wall, Coire Cas, Sunday 18th April.
More: http://www.winterhighland.info/pix/pixalbum.php?pix_id=638
CairnGorm Mountain From Saturday 8th May:
Weekend snowsports will take place from 10am - 4pm
Tickets will be available for 3 hour sessions or from 10am - 4pm. Last ski ticket sale 1pm
3 hours snowsports prices will be as follows:
With hire £25
No hire - ticket only £20
Full day snowsports ticket prices as follows:
With hire £30
No hire - ticket only £25
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Why is Cairngorm far and away the busiest/most popular ski area? |
It's an interesting one that and I'm not sure I've worked out a definitive answer.
Cairngorm/Aviemore is the ski area that's best known and it's probably the most accessible with good road and rail links so that might partly explain it. Additionally Aviemore provides a base that's closest in feel to a ski resort town, something I'd argue none of the others have, and offers far more accommodation options for visitors. The area also offers far more alternatives to snowsports than anywhere else if the conditions are unsuitable, far more I've realised in recent years than any alpine resort I've been to. It also has the longest season of any of the 5 Scottish destinations and you can pretty much guarantee sliding at the top from December to April.
It's strange though that it's Cairngorm that in recent years has cut back on it's lift infrastructure and seemingly relegated snowsports to second place after summer tourism (something that may currently be changing but we'll see). It's also the place that seems to garner the most criticism and complaints whereas the others seem to have generally happy customers.
This year of course it's the place with the most snow and will continue it's season the longest so I guess maybe that's what's currently attracting people to travel there from further afield.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
roga, for me, your post strikes me as incredibly biased 
IMO, Cairngorms is far from being the most accessible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
roga, the A9 is a disaster year on year. I'm not so sure I understand why the A82 gets such a bad rep, the only 'difficult' secion of the A82 is the loch side which only takes about 20 minutes to clear. After that it is a series of long straights all the way to Glencoe and onwards to Nevis.
The rail link to Glencoe stops at Crianlarach (and the free shuttle service which has been offered if you stay at their hotel). I can't dispute the fact that Cairngorms offers the most 'alpine' experience but as has been said over and over - that is not what skiing in Scotland is about (although maybe it is what brings the customers).
I wasn't aware of Aviemore's rail link. Are you talking about the funicular 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
roga, I did wonder about the Transport but according to Google Maps, Fort William is a tad closer than Aviemore, at least when driving up the M6 side. I guess it is closer to the Airport (?) at Inverness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I can't find the stats but doesn't Cairngorm average more open days?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I should say that even though I live nearby and ski probably 90% of my days at cairngorm, Glencoe is my favourite 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
| Why is Cairngorm far and away the busiest/most popular ski area? |
Firstly it's not entirely that clear cut. Glenshee on a given day can blow CairnGorm out of the water in terms of visitation and for most of this season Glenshee were ahead in terms of Skier Days. However for purely geographic reasons there is an almost inevitability that CairnGorm will overhaul Glenshee most seasons by the end as it has done this year.
The reason being, the season in the East starts earlier, but inevitably finishes earlier, in the West the Season inevitably starts later (due to terrain and climate factors) but also finishes later - CairnGorm Mountain sits smack in the middle, both in terms of geographic location, climate factors and for that matter terrain factors, thus gets quite literally the best of both worlds most seasons.
More than any other area, Strathspey has a constant holiday presence. Having a large number of visitors already in the area looking for things to do does seem to help, esp when they were visiting for golf or mountain biking and the golf courses were under feet of fresh as happened at Easter weekend!
Another factor is a greater "local" population in relatively close proximity to CairnGorm, esp compared to the Western Areas. This is possibly the most significant factor in play late season?
Also the snowboard vs drag lifts factor. The Funicular provides more terrain of all levels without use of surface lifts than any other area, indeed this season with the shuttle bus running and the Ciste Gully complete to the lower Carpark in Coire na Ciste, it was possible to ride the entire mountain (minus half the Ptarmigan Run at the top) just off the Funicular and bus! Perhaps that's something which helped boost boarder turnout at CairnGorm over the other areas which should make CML think about the uplift situation in Coire na Ciste!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
In fact the proportion of terrain accessible by non surface lift is an appeal that stretches much wide than just snowboarders, it's also esp true for families with younger children and less confident intermediates who are happy to ski the likes of the Traverse, Coire Cas or Bunny Run, Butcharts, but are put off by the drag lifts up/through more challenging terrain necessary to access them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Aviemore / Cairngorm has:
1. Higher brand awareness;
2. A flagship, shiny snowtrain;
3. Better snowfall;
4. Better transport links.
Aviemore's brand, product and visitability are superior.
Although, having been there recently, I can guide that Nevis kicks its butt for slopes, lifts and views.
Scotland's overall marketing of its ski resorts remains amateurish. Cairngorm has been quite possibly the snowiest resort in Western Europe this season, but almost noone outside the hardcore skiing clique is aware of it. They should have been bombarding the major media outlets with press releases and exclusives allseason long, to get influential London companies like BBC, Sky or FT to run big national stories about them in the UK, Ireland and Northern Europe. This season has been a huge missed opportunity to big up Scottish skiing among casual massmarket riders and reset perceptions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Winterhighland, My 2p FWIW: Cairngorn is quite compact and if, say, you have improving intermediates then they can stay on the Cas while more advanced skiers in the group ski the M1 or White Lady but they can all keep meeting up top or mid- station (although a pity the Sheiling has gone). My children learned to ski on Cairngorm in the 90s (despite abandoned days due to rain and wind) and I got them onto the t-bars early on - they're really not that hard are they, plus you get to have a chat like on a chair (well not quite like a chair but you get my drift). I fondly remember when the boys were young, all 3 of us using the Ptarmigan t-bar (all together). Happy days (when the sun was out)!
Due to having to cancel an Easter Alpine trip we had a couple of days on Cairngorm a week ago (Fri/Sat), first time back there for 11 years. OK, it's not the Alps but it's fine for a couple of days - I find it a tad repetitive by then though as I'm used to 250k plus of pistes. I also found it a bit bumpy and lumpy after the cosseted Alpine powder motorways but it's OK. I've skied Glenshee and Nevis (briefly) also but I'd put CG at the top of the list. Glenshee has acreage but not really enough vertical drop. Nevis seemed more spread out but I guess I didn't ski there long enough to fully appreciate it. Oh and CG easily has the best cafes even without the Sheiling. Aren't the CG corries quite deep also, so they hold loadsof snow, more than anywhere else? Regards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
| I can guide that Nevis kicks its butt for views. |
agreed for what's directly viewable from the ski areas themselves, but a short hop and step beyond the rope to the summit of cairngorm and beyond provides paralleled (and arguably better) vistas. Magical place up there on the plateau(x) - a tow to the summit would be a proper job! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Cairngorm really has no excuse to invest in the uplift system after the year its had, I can't imagine they won't put something up.. it would certainly surprise me if they don't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| but wouldn't it be great if the Scottish areas made some tangible improvements after this year's bumper winter? |
Glenshee has submitted a planning application to Aberdeenshire Council for a short chairlift from the Ticket Office to the Cairnwell Mountain Restaurant. It's far from the world's sexiest ski development and must be up there with the shortest chairlifts anywhere, but it will make a huge difference to accessing the Cairnwell side of the mountain for all. Relieving a horrendous bottleneck at the Plastic Slope Poma, providing access for beginners to more reliable gentle snow than at the roadside and providing lift access when there is snow down to the restaurant but not road level.
Providing the National Park don't call in the application it should be in place for next season, even if the park call it in, it might still just be achievable for next winter.
| Quote: |
| Cairngorm really has no excuse to invest in the uplift system after the year its had, I can't imagine they won't put something up.. it would certainly surprise me if they don't. |
CML can start with fixing the West Wall Chairlift up and repairing the West Wall boardwalk. 
Actually somewhat disappointed with CML selling bits of old lifts to Glenshee, the gubbins of the Lady Tow along with the Fiacaill Towers could have been used to build the long over due (and even longer talked about) Marquis Well Tow (Summit Tow).
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Whitegold, this is frightening! I agree with you. 
If you think just about the May bank holiday weekend: I wrote to the PR person to ask if they would be open 'assuming sufficient snow', and she replied telling me to check their website regularly!  It was only when I wrote back and pointed out that people needed to make plans, especially if they wanted to attract visitors from further afield, that she then replied after a meeting with an affirmative answer. Really poor marketing! there have been some little bits and pieces on the news though, which is the first time Scottish skiing has been mentioned since forever. It was Cairngorm though - do the other areas even know about marketing? Maybe they don't want 'tourists' coming?
mountainaddict, Most people who come here do seem to know you can ski in Scotland, all have heard of Aviemore, but a goodly number are surprised to hear there are other places to ski in Scotland and even in England! However many say they would never ski there because it's too cold. This is shocking when it's said in -20degs alpine winter. Where does this idea that it's colder than the alps come from?
Winterhighland, what's the current situation at Glencoe? Is it worth driving over for the day if it's still open at the BH weekend? Last time I went it was a bit of a rip off, paying extra for the first chair, walking across the 'plateau' and no loos on the mountain ... it was a long time ago, but it's a fair old drive from Aviemore in a big van ... advice would be appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Having now skied all 5 stations, Cairngorm does tick all the boxes.
Good access, even from Norn Iron.
Good ski town
Big mountain
Good facilities
Lifts were perfectly acceptable, but that chair would be good if it was running again.
On this ocassion, excellent snow.
Fort William is a total dump of a town
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| arv wrote: |
| roga, the A9 is a disaster year on year. I'm not so sure I understand why the A82 gets such a bad rep, the only 'difficult' secion of the A82 is the loch side which only takes about 20 minutes to clear. After that it is a series of long straights all the way to Glencoe and onwards to Nevis. |
Oh I agree and don't get me wrong I actually prefer driving that road, it's far more scenic and Glencoe is my fave Scottish resort. However, and I should have made this clear above, IMHO the perception of people is different and the marketing of Scottish skiing so woeful that these perceptions are never really challenged.
| Quote: |
| The rail link to Glencoe stops at Crianlarach (and the free shuttle service which has been offered if you stay at their hotel). I can't dispute the fact that Cairngorms offers the most 'alpine' experience but as has been said over and over - that is not what skiing in Scotland is about (although maybe it is what brings the customers). |
I think it's perhaps partly that but also the sheer practical fact that Aviemore is a good base town with lots to do and lots of accomodation and is also perceived as being easy to get to, or at least easier to get to, than the other ski areas and their bases. Take Crianlarach, the hotel is fantastic but it's hardly offering the resort experience that many people are looking for. Personally I like the middle of nowhere experience and doing things a bit out of the ordinary but I suspect most potential customers don't, this is where Aviemore and area wins. This season I've got the impression from talking to ski school customers that many only looked as far as the McDonald Highland Resort website for their 'package' and were happy with what they got, despite the fact very much cheaper (and 'authentic') accomodation could be had by looking further afield. There were also a lot from the Hilton at Coylumbridge which again offers a package for people and and has facilities such as a swimming pool on site for apres ski. This is all anecdotal but I can but base my assumptions on what people (and there's been a fair few of them) have told me.
| Quote: |
| I wasn't aware of Aviemore's rail link. Are you talking about the funicular |
LOL
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| roga, I did wonder about the Transport but according to Google Maps, Fort William is a tad closer than Aviemore, at least when driving up the M6 side. I guess it is closer to the Airport (?) at Inverness. |
Yes, nearest airport to Nevis/Glencoe would be Glasgow which is a longer drive from Nevis/Glencoe (I've done it) than Inverness to Aviemore. Again though it's about perception, after all the drive frpom Glasgow to Nevis/Glencoe is a lot shorter than the drive from Geneva to many Alpine resorts and people quite happily fly into Geneva and hire cars, most though will admitedly go for a transfer rather than drive.
| barry wrote: |
| mostly though, it's the fleshpots |
LOL
| barry wrote: |
| I should say that even though I live nearby and ski probably 90% of my days at cairngorm, Glencoe is my favourite |
Same here!
Winterhighland, agree with all that!
| easiski wrote: |
| If you think just about the May bank holiday weekend: I wrote to the PR person to ask if they would be open 'assuming sufficient snow', and she replied telling me to check their website regularly! It was only when I wrote back and pointed out that people needed to make plans, especially if they wanted to attract visitors from further afield, that she then replied after a meeting with an affirmative answer. Really poor marketing! there have been some little bits and pieces on the news though, which is the first time Scottish skiing has been mentioned since forever. It was Cairngorm though - do the other areas even know about marketing? Maybe they don't want 'tourists' coming? |
I think PR for Scottish skiing is woeful at best and something needs to be done about it. I remember a time when there were brochures (I have some still) and ads around promoting Scottish skiing, this all seems to have been lost in recent years. Given the amazing conditions why on earth wasn't there a campaign in the media this season? Failing thta even more PR for news reports UK wide would have been good. Agreed that Cairngorm is the best at this but I saw their PR person state clearly on one TV report that this year they had a proper ski resort and that they hadn't had that for years. Not only is this arrant nonsense but it's not the job of a PR person to talk down the product they offer and with that kind of attitude what hope is there! Don't get me started on Ski Scotland who are an organisation that seem to think a years old, poorly designed (and updated) website coupled with a few e-mail bulletins during the season is an adequate job and justifies the thousands paid to them by the ski areas. Question is though why the ski areas still give them their cash, that says a lot IMHO!
| Quote: |
mountainaddict, Most people who come here do seem to know you can ski in Scotland, all have heard of Aviemore, but a goodly number are surprised to hear there are other places to ski in Scotland and even in England! However many say they would never ski there because it's too cold. This is shocking when it's said in -20degs alpine winter. Where does this idea that it's colder than the alps come from?
Could it be the wind chills they are referring to rather than the actual temperature?
[quote="johnboy"]Having now skied all 5 stations, Cairngorm does tick all the boxes.
Good access, even from Norn Iron.
Good ski town
Big mountain
Good facilities
Lifts were perfectly acceptable, but that chair would be good if it was running again.
On this ocassion, excellent snow. |
I think this is absolutely right and it does tick all the boxes for those whose involvement in snowsports is less intense than our own in all honesty.
| Quote: |
| Fort William is a total dump of a town |
It's not the most uplifting of places it has to be said!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Providing the National Park don't call in the application it should be in place for next season, even if the park call it in, it might still just be achievable for next winter.
|
I was chatting to my councilor at the weekend and mentioned the planning application (as I received a letter thanking me for my comment on the planning website*). He said it would be automatically called in by the NP.
* I was pointing out that sending me a letter was a waste of money and an email would have been sufficient.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I think a "fresh pair of eyes" would work wonders. Things which are obvious and straight forward to regulars and staff can be confusing and frustrating to new visitors. Yet the 'lifetime' value of these visitors to the resorts is massive. This need not be expensive but could make a big difference to first impressions. 'Retail is Detail' as the old adage goes.
The potential marketing message which struck me during my visit Scotland would be to place the Scottish resorts as 'hard-core' destinations for 'real' skiers. That would play to the area's strengths and mitigate some of the weaknesses while playing to the aspirations of many recreational visitors. And it need not be expensive if done intelligently.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
easiski, at the moment Glencoe Day Tickets are £20. The top runs are currently in great shape of the Main Basin T-bar. Plateau Poma track is goosed, you can ski most of the way back down it at present, and there is a landrover which ferries folk' over the Plateau to the Cliffhanger Chair, but the walk across the Plateau involves only a 1/3rd of the rise of the Plateau Poma which is something folk overlook. There are toilets at the top of the Access Chair and in the Plateau Cafe adjacent to the bottom of the Cliffhanger.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
For anyone planning a slide in the coming days it looks like a mix of sunny spells and blustery snow showers for Wednesday and Thursday, with Friday being the best day for a slide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
On the marketing front, I've just had the ski club email through. No mention of Scottish conditions in the Snow Reports section, not even in the 'Rest of EU', although they do mention Scotland near the top. The Scottish tourist office should have a word.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| The potential marketing message which struck me during my visit Scotland would be to place the Scottish resorts as 'hard-core' destinations for 'real' skiers. That would play to the area's strengths and mitigate some of the weaknesses while playing to the aspirations of many recreational visitors. And it need not be expensive if done intelligently. |
I'm not sure I agree on that, whilst I enjoy skiing in Scotland, the resorts are small compared to the Alps, the vertical isn't as great, neither is the variety. Sure the back corries are nice, but there's only so many times you can lap braveheart in a day....
The tough skiing in Cairngorm IMHO is no.1 and no.2 gully, lots of nice variations around there, but once again a day spent there and you'll have skied all/most of the accessible terrain....
regards,
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
a day spent there and you'll have skied all/most of the accessible terrain....
|
Exactly. If you're used to something larger, both km and vertical, well, there's no contest. It's OK if you live close enough to get there and back in a day but to travel hundreds of miles for one centre only, I don't think so (unless you're doing other stuff in the area / visiting friends or family en route etc.). OR, when all centres are properly operating I guess you can do a day at each. Regards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
If conditions are right I don't think you could exhaust Nevis in a day. There have been a few times this season where I have come away not skiing everything I wanted to (in fairness, that is not necessarily normal).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
billb, Is it only the Brits who are obsessed with Kms? All the smaller resorts around here are as small or smaller than the main Scottish sk areas, and french families seem to have no problem with it. Why is my assertion that the Lecht is one of my top 5 favourite places to ski always treated with disbelief? There's a lot more to skiing that racking up Kms!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
billb, really, really strongly disagree with that!
Yes the areas are smaller than the *very* developed mega resorts in Europe but they're wilder and conditions change giving far more of a challenge. IMHO only the most dedicated of motorway piste skiers (yup, done that been there and it's ticked off so no need to do it again) could suggest that a resort is 'done' when all the runs are skied. This is particularly the case with somewhere like Glencoe where every run offers different lines and experiences each time it skied - endless creative variations on every run. Yes there's an argument for covering more than one ski area in a week but frankly even at Cairngorm, which I've spend over 5 weeks at this season, I was skiing new lines and new places right up to last week.
However this does represent the mind set of many UK skiers (boarders less so in my experience) so appealing to that market has it's limitations IMHO. Better to go for the line that david@mediacopy suggests and look at the 'hard core' marketing of Scotland, on and (this is important) off-piste.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Not surprising that it's closed early due to lack of demand.
