achilles, that was sort of what I meant. Because my hands are weak, and my grip therefore not reliable, I have the straps quite tight so that I can rest some of my weight on the strap itself, and the weakness of the grip doesn't matter so much. Odin, what do you need to buy? I have some Leki walking poles, with exchangeable baskets, but I think they just have ordinary straps. Is it a special pole, or do you also need special gloves?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w, You CAN buy special Leki gloves. however, when you buy Leki poles with the 'klick' system they come with an attachment which slips over your glove and leaves you with a small 'klick' piece (which goes into the handle of the pole) in the area between your thumb and forefinger.
The picture below (click for larger) shows the system with gloves and normal straps along with the ones that go over your own gloves (bottom two).
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
veeeight, I think the answer is pretty damn well, unless you are one of the people who likes maintaining an open hand when you swing/plant. I have found some instructors tell you off for open hands, some for closed hands. Either works for me, and I believe I can plant effectively without straps on.
pam w, fascinating. Don' t remember ever having that concept explained to me - through a long series of (despairing ) instructors. I gather from veeeight's and stoatsbrother's remarks that the philosophy is out there. But this is the first time I have come across it.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This has been an eye opener. I hadn't realised that there was a right and a wrong way to carry the poles AND a reason for the difference. I've been trying to think how I carried mine, but can't bring it to mind except that I do know one way it felt comfortable and if I did something different it was sufficiently uncomfortable that I changed it. However, I do know that I was def. better off with straps on the poles rather than being cut off - when I was on the button lift my instructor showed me to put both loops over my left hand and let the poles drag on one side of me so that I had both hands free to hold on and also so that they didn't get in my way when I dismounted. I then looped the right one back on before I set off.
So far I seem to have got away with falling over with them attached by the straps to both wrists, including this years occasion when I was side swiped by the kids from the ski school, however what I did forget to tell you all is that one of them hit my straight ski pole and it ended up as bent a Grand Prix race pole, when was interesting until I got it straightened out!!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stoatsbrother, It might be elementary, but how long should they be - the hire shops have always handed me a pair with a degree of confidence and I've gone along with it, but what are they measuring against on me, and is it with ski boots on or off?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Odin, thanks very much for that. Will go and have a look at them.
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Megamum, The classic way is to hold the pole upside down on the floor and hold your arm at your side flexed with a 90 degrees angle at the elbow, and when holding the pole the top of your hand should be against the bottom of the basket. But different people like different lengths. I ski with 122cm poles (which means adjusting them or sawing a bit off the top end).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
stoatsbrother, 2 cm from a standard length? Poser
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
veeeight, clearly!
I don't quite see how ski-pole-straps help with ski-pole planting myself...
And anytime I've been heliskiing the guides ahev clearly recommended not wearing strapswhile skiing through trees - as it's all to easy to get a pole trapped in a tree with predictable and painful results. And you ski through trees (when heliskiing) really quite a lot IME.
I don't think they're so concerned about ski-pole-straps and avalanches as you're not really supposed to be skiing in avalanches anyway...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
In order to execute an oblique pole plant to generate the correct amount of torque from it in tough terrain, you need the straps otherwise your grip would be slipping from the handle(grip).
If you're not finding this to be the case then either you're not skiing the terrain that warrants it, or you're not using the pole plant in that manner, or you've got a superhuman vise grip, or that you've got such incredible core strength that will enable you to ski with such precision to get max. seperation without rotation.
In my experience most people with incorrect pole plants plant either too late or/and too upright.
Yes I heli-ski with my straps, and yes, I ski fast through (extremely tight) trees with my straps. Then again I don't venture into trees unless there is at least a 2m snowbase.....
Anyway - this topic has been covered before, the unbelievers remain so, and the enlightened ones progress.......
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 4-03-07 15:30; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
In order to execute an oblique pole plant to generate the correct amount of torque from it in tough terrain, you need the straps otherwise your grip would be slipping from the handle(grip).
This was the point I was raising, though in a less technically precise manner. I can't actually DO that pole plant effectively yet, but have started practising it in undemanding terrain, and on the infrequent occasions when I actually manage to get the pole taking a sensible amount of my body weight, I definitely couldn't hang on to it with just a hand round the pole; the strap is taking quite a bit of pressure. I don't ski through the trees (unless that's where the piste goes!).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w, i have the Leki click ins as i have very weak thumbs which dislocate easily having injured them loads of times.
i find them easier on the hands but agree with SMALLZOOKEEPERs, point about spares. on the second day i lost the strap on one and had to get a replacement.
the only thing i dont like is you have to loosen off the velcro strap to get your gloves off and it is easy to lose the strap assembly if not clicked into poles and left on a glove that has been taken off.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
veeeight wrote:
............Anyway - this topic has been covered before, the unbelievers remain so, and the enlightened ones progress.......
You don't do arrogance then. And you don't seem to think that skilegs has done much skiing - you might be surprised about that.
[edit]On reflection that was grumpy. However, I'm 95% certain I have skied with skilegs - 15 years or so ago. If I'm right she was no slouch then, and judging by what I have heard she has skied since, she's no slouch now. Skis all terrain. To judge by skileg's opening question, she has a different viewpoint from veeeight's. So, though I don't doubt that veeeight is an advanced skier, it doesn't make someone with a differing viewpoint unenlightened.
PS If I am wrong about who skilegs is, I'll go and hide in a snow hole [/edit]
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
veeeight, unimpressed. I have heard very well regarded instructors in US and Austria saying different things. I have also seen some very good skiers ski all sorts of terrain from the start of the day to the end without their straps on. I am not sure that you being so dogmatic about this issue is justified and I also think that wearing straps in tight trees is a bit silly for most of us, and doesn't make me think I should take your opinion about this issue very seriously!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Quote:
In order to execute an oblique pole plant to generate the correct amount of torque from it in tough terrain, you need the straps otherwise your grip would be slipping from the handle(grip).
This was the point I was raising, though in a less technically precise manner. I can't actually DO that pole plant effectively yet, but have started practising it in undemanding terrain, and on the infrequent occasions when I actually manage to get the pole taking a sensible amount of my body weight
I occasionally read about these pole plants and my instructor encourages them although I can't do them like he does yet. In pam w,s quote above, she states that weight is actually put through the pole. I'm obviously missing their importance I assumed that they had a lot to do with balance and could help to teach turning technique, but now it sounds as though there is something even more fundamental about the use of poles that I have so far missed If someone would like to explain what I've clearly missed it might help me to understand and make a common sense judgement about this important straps issue.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, on "normal" terrain, a pole plant can be used to help with balance and rhythm. On difficult terrain the pole is used actively as a pivot. I'm sure someone will come with a better (or even correct!) description. From what I've remembered of what you've said of your experience, the latter probably isn't a consideration for you at the moment.
Megamum,
You use the strap to provide positive support for your hand when you pole plant, rather than just relying on your grip. Avoid using the straps in trees, in case the poles get caught up, you don't want to be attached to them.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Haven't used straps for several seasons, i love it, one less thing to worry about. I took a few days to get used to the feeling of being strapless, but it's then second nature. Ocassionaly when polling along in sticky snow I leave the pole behind, but it's always on flat terrain, so no big problem. I think I switched after a few off-piste guided sessions where someone said about taking off straps, just thought may as well do it all the time. As for the suggestion by some that not using straps can effect your pole plant or that you ain't pole planting correct in the first place -well from my experince that's not correct - I can quite happily ski steep terrain and execute very positive pole plants. Bottom line is try strapless, if you like it stick with it else go with straps and risk thumb injuries.
waynos, I'm with you on this one. I got tired of fiddling about taking my hands in and out of the straps getting on and off lifts and just started holding the polls without bothering with the straps. The only time I have ever 'lost' one is as you say, polling along the flat and they are easily retrieved.
Another benefit of being 'strapless' is in the 'side sliding into your pole' wipeout. This is an embarrasing slow spead fall that occurs when you are stopped on a steepish slope, chatting to your wife (normally in full view of the rest of your family and a chair lift) with both poles 'planted' , one uphill, one downhill. The wipeout occurs when you inadvertently let your edges slip a bit and your skis slide over the downhill pole trapping the 'basket' under the ski edge and pulling you over. If you can't drop the pole quickly you end up in a heap After the SECOND time I did this I realised that not having the strap round my wrist would be a big plus
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
AxsMan, I've a friend who's just missed a couple of weeks skiing due to breaking his thumb in a stationary fall. Talking to him he thinks had he been strapless no busted thumb, though this is the same friend that broke a rib and wrist whilst skiing an empty green run in good conditions with no other skiers involved.
After all it is free
After all it is free
waynos, Can you please post his holiday plans here well in advance. He sounds like someone worth avoiding
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Having suffered the "skier's thumb" injury (twice), I am very much in the 'no straps' camp.
In fact I have only just had a cast removed from my latest thumb injury, and I can tell you it's an injury you really, really don't want. 6-weeks in a cast (or 'spike', as the medical profession refer to them), and another 3-4 weeks of physio. And that's if you're lucky!
The previous time I did my thumb in, it involved emergency surgery to re-attach the tendons/ligaments to the bone, many weeks in a cast (catn't remember exactly how many weeks ... it was that long), and whole load of physio.
You have been warned
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sorry, I should point out it's still possible to sustain this injury without poles strapped to your hand - but 'strapping-in' makes it far, far more likely.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
jonflat2 wrote:
Sorry, I should point out it's still possible to sustain this injury without poles strapped to your hand.
I agree with that - and you don't even need to be skiing!
My friend sustained her "skiers thumb" crossing the road. I noticed just in time that the "gap" in the traffic wasn't actually a gap at all - there was a tow rope. I managed to skip over said tow rope but she didn't - fell flat on her face and did the "thumb" thing. I took her to casualty where we were told it was just a bit bruised. A visit to her local hospital next day confirmed the skier's thumb diagnosis. I don't think she has ever fully regained her grip.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I only go strapless when in trees, and then only if I remember to extract my hands. I find them to useful as a means of helping to pivot the pole forward from my wrist and it gives me a good grip if I need a firm pole plant. I hate to ski without straps. Don't all poles now come with some kind of release mechanism for the strap? Both my pairs of poles have a release mechanism.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stoatsbrother wrote:
veeeight, I think the answer is pretty damn well, unless you are one of the people who likes maintaining an open hand when you swing/plant. I have found some instructors tell you off for open hands, some for closed hands. Either works for me, ...
Presumably you only have an open hand for swinging the pole when you use the strap? I also use both open and closed hand movements, but as I do this subconsciously I need to have straps on as much as possible otherwise I'd lose grip far too often.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've been told to grip the poles tightly as a means of helping to keep my core strong, so don't fancy the open hand approach.
I always use straps, it just feels "right".
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
marc gledhill wrote:
I've been told to grip the poles tightly as a means of helping to keep my core strong, so don't fancy the open hand approach.
Sometimes I do, especially if it's steep, but when the going is not so tough it seems natural to me just to relax my grip and flick the pole forward. Not so much "open hand" but "loose hand", which, of course, relies on a strap.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
stoatsbrother wrote:
veeeight, I think the answer is pretty damn well, unless you are one of the people who likes maintaining an open hand when you swing/plant. I have found some instructors tell you off for open hands, some for closed hands. Either works for me, ...
Presumably you only have an open hand for swinging the pole when you use the strap? I also use both open and closed hand movements, but as I do this subconsciously I need to have straps on as much as possible otherwise I'd lose grip far too often.
I must have led a very sheltered life as I've never heard of the idea of swinging poles from the straps while skiing . What's wrong with just flexing/extending/flicking the wrists? I now hardly ever use straps, as of about 3 years ago when one guide (after giving the warnings about trees and avalanches mentioned above) suggested cutting them off altogether (as he clearly did). I do keep them on the poles though, primarily for attaching them to the skis at lunchtime. I do sometimes now use them as a security measure when skiing very steep stuff, and would prefer not to be separated from the poles by 100m+ if I had a fall. The only other occasion when I would find them useful is in a racing start, but I can normally grip them hard enough for that too. My racing poles are Leki with the trigger system, but I never use those straps as that's always on plastic.
I have no ideas what veeeight is talking about - I can generally do perfectly adequate pole plants in steeps and pretty tough terrain (although I'm happy to admit that I'm no great shakes in moguls at the best of times), and the principal problem with getting a firm plant is when the shop renting nice fat skis only has poles equipped with poxy baskets suitable only for the piste . And as far as I have been taught, all the twisting action for turns in these cases should be from the hip joints and below anyway so I don't see where any torque applied through the arms has anything to do with it in the first place.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
veeeight, exactly how do you push a strap? Clearly I have misunderstood this gravity thing, which might explain my skiing!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thorney wrote:
veeeight, exactly how do you push a strap? Clearly I have misunderstood this gravity thing, which might explain my skiing!
Easy, you push against the strap which is tight around your hand. If you are poling along on a flat bit of piste, or need to apply a very powerful pole plant you push down or behind you on the pole. If your strap is firmly connecting you do the pole it means you don't rely so much on your grip as the strap takes some of your 'push'.
In view of the comments on holding ski straps which threaten to de-rail someone elses thread, I've BUMPED this thread which IIRC had lots of useful in it.
By the comments on the other thread it implies that the tope of the loops are help under the palm of the hand - this may be the 'correct' way to hold the straps (entering the hand from underneath to do so) but it still sounds an uncomfortable concept to have the loop under the hand in this way IMHO
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, Bump of the year I'd say
If you are gouing to put the straps around your wrists then grip pole with strap across the top of the hand.
I'm sorry I'm not making any sense coz I don't understand the topic. TTFN
BTW - no gloves worthy of a mention in TK Maxx now - you were lucky.
After all it is free
After all it is free
LIke skilegs I rarely use the straps after I wrenched my thumb. I was taught how to use the straps 'correctly' but it didn't make any difference.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Megamum, But using them this way means that the loops support your hand when making plants, under the palms, it means you don't need to grip very hard yet can still put plenty of force down through the pole.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Scarpa, That makes a whole lot more sense w.r.t. a reason for doing it than many of the other reasons - I can certainly visualise how and why that would work. I like something as an explanation that I can understand - you should be an instructor!!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) instructors. I gather from veeeight's and stoatsbrother's remarks that the philosophy is out there. But this is the first time I have come across it.
[
If someone would like to explain what I've clearly missed it might help me to understand and make a common sense judgement about this important straps issue.
After the SECOND time I did this I realised that not having the strap round my wrist would be a big plus 
. What's wrong with just flexing/extending/flicking the wrists? I now hardly ever use straps, as of about 3 years ago when one guide (after giving the warnings about trees and avalanches mentioned above) suggested cutting them off altogether (as he clearly did). I do keep them on the poles though, primarily for attaching them to the skis at lunchtime. I do sometimes now use them as a security measure when skiing very steep stuff, and would prefer not to be separated from the poles by 100m+ if I had a fall. The only other occasion when I would find them useful is in a racing start, but I can normally grip them hard enough for that too. My racing poles are Leki with the trigger system, but I never use those straps as that's always on plastic.
. And as far as I have been taught, all the twisting action for turns in these cases should be from the hip joints and below anyway so I don't see where any torque applied through the arms has anything to do with it in the first place.
