 Poster: A snowHead
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The ever nervous making http://www.ski-injury.com/ website has a specific section about Thumb injuries caused by a fall with wrists in wrist straps, and advises skiing not using the straps, unless losing a pole would be more dangerous than the risk of a broken thumb.
It says
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| No question though that a grade 2-3 UCL injury is more disabling than a grade 1-2 MCL injury of the knee. |
yet I have not heard much here, or with my non-SH friends about it, and as far as i know they all ski with hands in the straps.
What do YOU do?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Straps every time, however I think people thread their wrist through the straps in different ways, this might have an effect in injuries I guess
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have seen many many holiday skiers thread their hands through the straps incorrectly thus increasing the risk of injury.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I never ski with hands in straps, not sure why you would bother. My poles do have safety clips that will split if you fall.
It is probably a good idea to wear some good gloves when skiing - my thumb has bits of titanium in it after I fell walking on ice - If I had been wearing ski gloves it would have mitagated the injury I think. A thumb will surprisngly still work with a broken UCL but will have no power - this is why it can be misdiagnosed but as the website says a surgical repair is essential.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On-piste, definitely hands OUT! Have done the torn UCL injury and it wasn't pleasant, although it didn't stop me ski-ing. Fortunately it was pretty warm so I could get away with thin stretchy gloves over the plaster cast, although hanging on to drag lifts was a bit of challenge. Hand was supposed to be in plaster for 4 weeks but I had a concert to do (I'm a cellist) 3 weeks after I got back so the plaster came off after 2 weeks and I did obsessive things with a tennis ball for 2 weeks to try and get my hand back up to strength - was my right hand (bowing hand) so strength pretty vital - you'd be surprised how much. In fact, many of my playing friends have right hands that are noticeably bigger than their left. However, still needed a neoprene support and plenty of painkillers to get through the concert, and it was about a year before it stopped bothering me when playing my cello. Funnily enough, had a row with an Austrian ski instructor last year about the same thing. She spent a week of ski school telling me to put my straps round my hands, and I spent the week saying no, I'd rather lose my poles and spend £30 on a new pair. Gave up trying to explain why....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I was always taught to have the hand pass up through the strap loop, then the strap forms a supprting platform for the wrist, as I grap the pole handle. Is this now considered incorrect?
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I believe that snowbunny's description of strap use is correct and I guess that veeeight refers to people having loose straps flapping about their wrists.
On page 96 of his book, Wayne Watson of Alpine Experience discusses straps, basically he reccommends not to use them off piste as it is something more to trap you in an avalanche, also more likely to catch on trees and pull you over.
Nowadays I just hold my poles and ignore the straps when skiing. Except, when poling along a long road putting on straps means I can relax my hand and push with wrist against strap.
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snowbunny, that is considered "the way" to wear your straps. Whether you wear them or not is personal choice. I do. I was skiing with an US ex-mogul team member who wouldn't use the straps on her poles as she once broke her thumb, she hadn't used them for over 10 years. After half a day skiing with me she started wearing them, I saw her wearing them for the rest of her weeks holiday too.
She skied lots of off-piste with me and could easily keep up (sorry should said she stopped racing to start a family, two kids and not *huge* amounts of skiing later) but as her technique was rusty she fell a few times and after the 2nd time of me fetching her pole for her she had to start walking back up the hill to get them (nobody else around). She exhasted herself by the end of the day and decided that it was slightly worth the risk...
On a 'connected' topic anyone used the Leki click in system?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yepp, I had this very injury in Feb (Along with a broken/dislocated shoulder!) and it still gives me hassle. Just last night I was playing badminton and went to balance myself, and my thumb took some weight and BANG! pain for two hours where the tendons were just not happy again  Because I cycle race regularly its always getting stressed when braking or descending, and just isnt 100% since the accident.
It was caused by the strap on my poles, so first thing I did when I took my poles out a couple of weeks ago was remove the straps and store them. I would rather spend 30 euros than have this hassle again!
ScottyDog
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Never use straps for the reasons Adrian refers to
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I never use straps as I was taught years ago it was possibly unsafe in a fall. Partly my dry ski heritage as well - it's easier for it to all go horribly wrong on the dendex (pole caught etc) and of course there's nowhere for the pole to GO on your average dry slope and there's never any bother skiing without poles to the bottom - so losing them isn't an issue either.
aj xx
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I never ski with hands in straps, not sure why you would bother.
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Unless you are exceptionally good, it is not possible to achive a consitently effective pole plant in all conditions and terrain without use of the pole straps.
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I broke both thumbs (once riding, once skiing) in childhood and I have never had any problem with the straps on my sticks. I agree with veeeight that you get a much better pole-plant with the straps on and tight enough to support the hand. If you watch Bode Miller, it appears that the modern method is to not use your sticks at all but I come from a generation that idolised Ingemar Stenmark and he often used a double pole-plant!
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You know it makes sense.
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| veeeight wrote: |
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I never ski with hands in straps, not sure why you would bother.
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Unless you are exceptionally good, it is not possible to achive a consitently effective pole plant in all conditions and terrain without use of the pole straps. |
not sure i'd agree with that, but maybe i'm exceptionally good 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Gordyjh, for DH sure. I advocate less pole planting than in days gone by but a good pole plant technique is still fundamental to being a rounded skier.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Had a few different views. The hardcore backcountry guide I did my avalanche course with is of the never have your straps on (and set your bindings on a low setting) so you can ditch as much as possible as quickly as possible if you get caught in an avalanche, on the basis that they provide anchors to drag you deeper into the snow where the chance of being found/surviving goes down dramatically.
On the other hand some freesking coaches have told me always to use the straps - not quite sure why, guess it's because on the steeps it's pretty hard to go back and get your pole.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think I am going to experiment not using my straps, at least on piste...
I have planted a pole between my skis before 
As a side note, what do you look for in a pole? I am thinking that lightness is probably the over riding factor... though obv something that won't snap at the 1st turn would be nice!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Always use straps and use them up through the hand rather than over the thumb which is just stupid. You are asking for the shock to go through your thumb and guess what gets injured...!! Off-piste it is a call between losing the pole which could be a HUGE hassle or geting caught in an avalanche. Same with the ski bindings, too loose and you could lose the ski. On balance I would say a fall is much more likley than an avalanche so would plan around that. Those are the calculated risks with going off-piste.
Generally you can/will get a better plant with a supporting strap. On-piste you can use the Leki/Goode system where you don't need the strap support but it is too much hassle to have to bother with different gloves for on/off-piste.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm surprised no one else in this thread apart from scottydog has mentioned shoulder injuries from pole accidents. A friend dislocated his shoulder from a pole accident the other year.
Meanwhile my shoulder simply got a good wrench last season from stabbing a sticky mogul which didn't give me my pole back quite as quickly as I'd have liked.
However, I still go thru phases of wearing straps and not wearing them since I 'think' I'm going to drop the poles if they aren't attached for some reason, not that I have ever dropped them, with or without the straps on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you watch Bode Miller, it appears that the modern method is to not use your sticks at all
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For DH, SG and GS - it's more of a pole-tip touch. Watch the SL carefully. Strong pole plants are utilised. As for bumps - I don't think you will find many effective bump skiers without pole plants.
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not sure i'd agree with that, but maybe i'm exceptionally good
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In steeper terrain you need to get torque from an oblique pole plant, otherwise something else will start happening in order to execute a turn. Like shoulder or hip rotation.
Watching anyone skiing short radius turns on the steeps without an effective pole plant is just plain cringeworthy. Unless they have an exceptionally strong core to keep the upper body quiet.
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veeeight, i certainly agree that effective pole planting is a very good thing on steep slopes. i am not so sure that you need to have your hand in the loop in order to execute an effective pole plant
i have attempted to ski a couloir with only one and a half poles (snapped one - long story) and it took a lot of getting used to!
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i am not so sure that you need to have your hand in the loop in order to execute an effective pole plant
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I guess this is one of those debates that will run on........
If you are exerting the correct and required amount of force and torque from the pole plant for the conditions/terrain - having the strap in the correct position will aid you: More torque can be exerted, less tiring on the fingers as you are using the whole hand/palm to exert this force.
Also. In short radius turns and SL - having the strap pivot point at the top of the hand will aid the pole swing whilst retaining grip on the shaft grip.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, i'm not going to debate this because (without wishing to blow my own trumpet unduly) i am pretty good at steeps; i don't think too hard about my pole plants and the last thing i want to do is start overanalysing them!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My "Goode"s have straps that will release if the stick gets caught anywhere. Apparently. Still de-strap in trees (when I remember).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have a pair of poles with "quick release" straps......perfect solution.
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The Leki system's been mentioned once or twice: is it any better (or any worse) than a "standard" strap...
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You know it makes sense.
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Leki Trigger - Brilliant.
Pros:
The strap stays on your glove.
The system plugs into the pole grip.
It will release if caught in say trees
Cons:
The mechanism can occasionally freeze up
You can't hang your poles up as there are no straps
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So they were a worthwhile purchase then...tah
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Poster: A snowHead
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The point about avalanches is a good one and if I felt at risk I might not use straps (and undo the waist strap/chest strap on my pack etc). That said, on steep firm snow I would always use my straps - if you lose both skis, a pole can be crucial for self-arrest. Personally, I don't feel that my thumbs are threatened by using straps properly (up through the straps).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is an argument for keeping a lighty packed rucksack with you in an avalanche. With the pac your total weight::volume ratio is reduced and so you might float higher up in moving snow. Without the pack you lose lots of volume but not much weight and so could sink deeper.
In my many off piste falls I do not recall losing a pole. I keep hold of them. Occasionally I fall and land on my pole and on such occasions I can just let it go and then stand up. If I had the straps around my wrist I would have lots more effort to move my body enough to be able to untangle wrist from straps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I got caught out planting a pole in a soft mogul and dislocated my elbow as a result, I don't use straps any more!
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FAQ
while learning to plant properly. I had my hands in the straps correctly and ended up as a big pile on the floor. Perhaps if I wasn't using the straps, I would have just skied over the pole and been fine 