 Poster: A snowHead
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homphomp,
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My worry is that, like all insurers, this is a get out clause so they don't have to pay out! |
Ahhh. Dunno about accidentally falling into an unsafe offpiste area. It's unlikely to appear in any insurance policy, so it's worth confirming the position with the insurer.
AB Ski, D G Orf, ideally the policy would allow you, AFTER the accident, to obtain written confirmation from the resort that the area in which your acccident occured was within the "safe" area. I think an insurer who insists on daily pre-skiing confirmation is angling for a kick where it hurts from the insurance ombudsman....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The off-piste warning is an interesting clause, I believe I've read somewhere that the majority of avalanches occur when the warnings are at level 3. People who wouldn't ski off-piste at level 4 therefore think it's OK and it's not. A bit off the subject but maybe davidof has some stats.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 24-11-04 21:48; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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 On the subject of ski theft, I checked my Direct travel policy, and it says that 'skis must be locked to secure racking IF AVAILABLE.' (MY CAPITALS), I have my renewal notice and I will be renewing it. I had to put in a claim for a camera in July, and they were excellent. They were initially recommended by a friend when we crossed the pond for the 1st time a couple of years ago . I know how finnicky he is about things like insurance etc, and asked him who he used, as I knew he would have spent hours researching the best value policy, and that it would include off-piste.. Saved me a lot of trawling.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looks like Direct Travel are edgeing into the lead?Any other offers,or should we warn them to expand their call centre 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What a relief....I'll be renewing my Direct Travel policy soon! The time it took to find someone who would cover us for more than a couple of weeks at a reasonable price in the first place...I couldn't face that again!
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What about skiing through a parking lot or along the road back to the hotel, is this also deemed off piste? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowman, What about over the top of parked cars as happened in Val T after a mega dump in the eighties no one realised there were cars underneath until they started to dig them out
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My mum just got an offer from egg for annual family insurance for £20 altogether including winter sports cover! Nice one mum! - clearly she's been giving the credit card a beating lately and she's one of their fave customers cos I havent been offered it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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this is off-off-piste skiing..
extreme skiing
which policy will cover this? 
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You know it makes sense.
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snowman, Does the policy cover rust damage to boot clips?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hmmm....unlimited trips worldwide for two people:
Direct Travel - £100 ish (haven't had my renewal quote yet!)
Snowcard - £430 
Mind you I found the Snowcard online quote system a bit difficult to negotiate so maybe that's wrong? I think I'm going to stick with DT though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Reply from Direct-Travel concerning off-piste
"If you were to make a claim involving off piste
skiing or snow boarding, our claims department would obtain confirmation
from the local authorities as to whether this was a safe place for you to
ski.
In most cases if the area is not safe there will be warnings posted telling
you not to ski, or if there is a treat of avalanche. If you have any doubts
at all about the safety of the area in which you wish to ski or snow board,
we would advise that you did not do so in that area."
This still seems to be an all encompasing get get out clause. I can think of occassions where venturing off piste means skiing past a warning sign or under a rope (e.g. to encourage the masses to turn left instead of right at the top of a lift). Also what would be the position if there was say a level 3 avalanche warning.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowskisnow, its their standard annual travel policy that Laundryman bought, full price. My mums checked it out- and its great. WE dont go off piste so no need for extras!
Well done mum!! - she's paying for my ski trip and the insurance aswell!! just need to wangle some boots out of her!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have looked at my SCGB (ie Primary) policy and it does not make any conditions in relation to off-piste, though you have to pay extra if you race.
Also, NickW, you do not have to lock your skis at on piste restaurants etc., but it is sufficient to split your skis with someone else.
Perhaps this is partly why it is expensive.
A Standard policy covers 17 days/year, Super covers 21 and Executive is unlimited, though no single trip may excede 31 days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi all
I spoke to Direct Travel yesterday and was assured that I would be insured off piste unless I skied in an area closed for safety reasons by the resort management. Was advised that I did not need to get written notification in advance of that day's off piste skiing. Was also advised that off piste within a resort boundary is covered unless that area was closed off by the resort. This was for European cover - US cover is slightly different in that you need a guide outside of the resort boundary (I think) £73 for a year for 2.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Does"closed off" mean there is a notice prohibiting skiing, or just poles and tape accross the route and, perhaps a notice saying "Danger" (which is quite normal accross off-piste areas most of the time and just means "At your own risk, we have warned you")
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This does not answer my question of what constitutes (in terms of what the skiers might find on the slope to warn them) a "closed" off-piste area. ( I have seen "closed" piste signs. ). Unless you mean a tape accross and "Danger" sign IS the sign for Closed. In which case you could hardly ski off-piste at all, since many of these are permanent in my experience, (these are usually where going straight on from the top of a lift takes you off-piste) and I pass them almost every day (usually with a guide).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowball-know where you're coming from.Have experienced the closed/danger signs a few times.Is it closed because its dangerous;or marked dangerous because its out for normal recreational skiers(off piste)Time to invoke the common sense rule;ask!!In my experience,and surely many others,its sometimes obvious?The run has been closed off because of a slippage/rocks/tree fall etc.Many of the danger signs I've seen are just that;warning of danger.A quick look at the piste map will reveal them to be off the pisted area.Does anyone seriously consider an off piste day without planning?Only those with a death wish IMHO  If in doubt,I will always ask;guides,instructors,ESF,ski patrol,even the lifties.These people are on the ground,they know whats happening
There is a danger in seeking an absolute,definitive answer to the off piste question.By its very nature its a changing situation.And insurance,by and large,deals in certainties.This leaves you with a doubt,yes?? Personally,I see nothing onerous in Direct Travels clause.As long as the area is open(as determined by the resort)you can ski it.This brings the presumption that you would check beforehand.And as I'm sure you do,where's the problem?
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But unless you goto the tourist office and ask each day (and would anyone really do that?) how could you get a definitive answer. I don't think they ever operate like that with regards to off-piste: they just tell you there is a danger and perhaps even the degree of danger (and when is there not some danger, it's a matter of degree). If you ask, they will never tell you somewhere is safe to ski, though they are usually happy to tell you about danger spots in some detail if you ask the guides' office, and obviously generalised dangers of the moment.
Only pistes come with some resort guarantee of safety and thus sometimes get a Closed sign, while the off-piste next to it is left to your discretion, even though it may be more dangerous.
My concern was that the insurance company would take the Danger signs (which are there to protect the resort at places that piste skiers might be tempted to stray onto far off-piste areas) as equivalent to a Closed sign (which I cannot remember seeing, though my memory may be at fault).
The steepest off-piste often has no danger sign since it would not tempt the casual skier to stray.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowbunny I hope you got that definition in writing. It won't mean a thing to get it over the phone if they then decided not to pay up. Most contract's have a clause saying that no verbally agreed changes are allowed. You should also get them to define what *they* mean by "closed off". Though if you're planning on staying outside those sorts of areas, then it'll probably be fine.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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More on Skiing Insurance from Sophie Butler of the Telegraph newspaper. The 'hard copy' article had a useful table of comparisons between several companies but that has unfortunately not made it to the on-line version.
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hannah29, welcome to snowHeads. It's nice to know the prices of some things go down!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have just checked the terms of my annual policy with Columbus Direct with winter sports cover. This does not draw any distinction between on or off piste. All forms of skiing and all forms of winter sports are covered except:
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ski jumping, ski flying, heli-skiing outside Europe, ski acrobatics, ski stunting, freestyle skiing, ski racing and training, ski bob racing, parapenting, ice hockey, mountaineering (except incidental to skiing) and the use of skeletons and bobsleighs.
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seems pretty good to me and avoids any worries about doing the "wrong kind" of off-piste.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just to add to the complications.... Does anyone have any ideas which company have the best terms for cancellation. I am about to renew the annual travel insurance, and my father in law has recently diclocated his hip. He is ok for now and not definitely going to need an operation, but if he dislocates again then it would be new hip replacment time and possible cancellation of family ski-ing at Easter. Different compnaies deal with this in different ways.. anyone got any ideas
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would agreen that you should verify this with an Insurance company and if they will insure him, get it in writing. Sounds like a very 'good get-out clause' in the making.
I use Fogg as a top-up to my annual multi-trip which I get from my company. They insure off-piste and heli-ski as standard as long as you don't jump out of the helicopter.......!!!!!
I don't know how they are beyond that, just that the offices seem to know what they are selling.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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chrisb, I'm afraid that I agree with snowskisnow. Makes one wonder how far one should go, though. Many snowheads will have elderly, infirm relatives, for example. Logic says they are at greater risk of not being with us for much longer than the fitter, snowhead-like, community. Should they be declared? If so, the medical screening lines will be very busy. And snowheads quite possibly will not know precise medical details unless they intrusively ask precise details from said elderly relatives - who would be mortified if they learnt the enquiries were due to their potential imminent demise.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, I considered Fogg for my annual policy, but when I looked at the small print it seemed that off piste cover was only valid if there were more than 2 persons skiing together. Is your policy the same?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowbunny,
I'll have to check that out but I don't recall that. Aside from not wanting to ski off-piste alone by choice I can understand the insurance company being nervous about this but not to the extent of invalidating the policy..!!
I have used the multi-trip with '17 days ski' option and also just the medical and off-piste upgrades on my company multi-trip which I use for personal loss etc. I will dig the policy out and check and get back to you. I find them quite forthcoming on the phone so I would be surprised at that. After all, they did say that off-piste was not defined by using a guide which is not the norm with insurance companies.
Also, have you read about carte niege ?
I googled it this morning and found that it probably isn't for UK based or non-french speaking people on account that if you ever have to use it, you need to deal with Paris etc and it would be so frustrating for Brits to say the least.
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It was mentioned earlier as to how the insurance company knows your number of ski days...... if someone on their second holiday were to ski beyond their 17 days and have an accident..... what is to stop them saying "well I only skied one week of the two on the first holiday, so Im within my 17 days...."?
And an additional question..... if you know you are going beyond your 17 days, you obviously will need a new policy..... but surely then you are going to have 2 policies active (admittedly one would only cover your travel), isnt that against the rules?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To add a bit more, I have been checking the direct travel policy..... it looks very solid. Maybe I missed discussion earlier in the thread, but the snowsport stipulation is
"no more than 17 days ON ANY ONE TRIP"
This implies that even if you had half a dozen trips, as long as no one exceeds 17 days, you would still be covered even if your total number of days is in excess of 17...... is my reading of this correct?
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PS. Having reread..... it has been mentioned 
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FAQ
Think you would find they would invoke the all covering 'take reasonable care' rule 
). Only time will tell if the Direct Travel Policy merits it's high snowheads rating. Ask me this time next year 
Based on what I had read I had discounted the Fogg policy (as there are only 2 of us).
