 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks. Destination charging will be fine, can park & charge while we ski/eat 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| luanb wrote: |
| Hello all, we're planning to drive to Bourg-Saint-Maurice and stay there next weekend. Has anyony been recently and knows what's the chargers situation like there? The Elli/ABRP map is showing that there are chargers near the post office but a Google review last week says that they don't exist. |
I don't think there's any high speed chargers in Bourg. There are four 22kW (I think) chargers in the multi-storey car park at the SuperU supermarket. I've not used them but I think they are part of the Sowatt network, also available with a ChargeMap account.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| luanb wrote: |
| Hello all, we're planning to drive to Bourg-Saint-Maurice and stay there next weekend. Has anyony been recently and knows what's the chargers situation like there? The Elli/ABRP map is showing that there are chargers near the post office but a Google review last week says that they don't exist. |
I don't think there's any high speed chargers in Bourg. There are four 22kW (I think) chargers in the multi-storey car park at the SuperU supermarket. I've not used them but I think they are part of the Sowatt network, also available with a ChargeMap account. |
Looks like I'll need a ChargeMap card for activations. I don't think I can order one in time. Oh well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’m driving back to the UK tonight via Eurotunnel and it seems that there are fast chargers in the flexiplus area at Calais? I’m a bit nervous about going through immigration only to find that this isn’t the case/they don’t work etc. Has anyone who has been through recently confirm whether they do exist?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
| I’m driving back to the UK tonight via Eurotunnel and it seems that there are fast chargers in the flexiplus area at Calais? I’m a bit nervous about going through immigration only to find that this isn’t the case/they don’t work etc. Has anyone who has been through recently confirm whether they do exist? |
Not sure about the Flexiplus, but there are definitely chargers in the main parking area and they do work. However, you'll need to either sign up to their app or have a working RIF card, in my case the Eli RIF card worked perfectly.
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@luanb, Thanks - I don’t have a RIF card yet (I got the car less than a week ago). My car app is directing me to them, so I’ll take a risk with enough charge to get me to Maidstone. There’s quite a lot of planning to do!!!
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This charger definitely does not exist. I've walked around searching for it for 30 minutes!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @andy from embsay, yes, it’s still in Beta. For me it’s been pretty much faultless, except for the first few days but that was my fault as I set it up incorrectly. But my point is that when it comes to EVs legacy manufacturers really needed to have the same kind of mindset change that EV owners need to have when they make the switch from ICE. We shouldn’t think of an EV just as a regular car which happens to have a battery and electric motor rather than a tank and an engine. It can, and I think should, be something different. For example, how the EV interfaces with the National Grid is going to matter more and more, and the smarter that relationship is the better for all concerned. As you say, Octopus is pretty good at innovating in this domain. |
Apologies for thread drift, but just spotted that Octopus have announced a small scale beta programme available for a limited number of car models which offer "vehicle-to-grid" functionality. For those cars which can export energy stored in their battery back to the national grid at peak times, when you aren't using the car, then recharge at off-peak times, Octopus will offer free EV charging. Just a small scale trial with a very limited number of suitable cars, but I think an important step in the right direction for dealing with the problem of peak demand.
Octopus Power Pack
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 17-02-24 11:19; edited 1 time in total
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@rob@rar, I think my Volvo (when it turns up…) has this capability.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Did anyone do the half term trip in an EV? If so, what was your experience of charger availability? Stopping at Leclerc Champfleury for fuel this afternoon, the EV charging area looked busy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's just cars equipped with Chademo fast charge ports at the moment. Nissan leaf, env200 and Mitsubishi outlander phev. Unfortunately the indominant standard in Europe (CCS) until recently hasn't had a standard for vehicle to home or grid.
Having said this, several cars can do vehicle to load (mg, Kia, etc), great for portable power but not fit integrating into house storage.
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Back on topic, I'm noticing a lot more charging options popping up on the Calais-Troyes-Dijon-Geneva route.
We've just got back from driving out mg ZS ev to the grand massif and the journey seems to be getting easier each time. Eg aire de sommesouse between Reims and Troyes with 13 CCS chargers that has popped up in the last year.
The only issue we've had is with total energies that show 8 plugs on apps but in reality there are only 2 fast chargers. A pain if they're both busy!
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You know it makes sense.
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| rachelharrisonsmith wrote: |
| Did anyone do the half term trip in an EV? If so, what was your experience of charger availability? Stopping at Leclerc Champfleury for fuel this afternoon, the EV charging area looked busy. |
We drive overnight so there we found no issues with charging stops in France being too busy. The Tesla sites are huge on the way down from UK and many are open to non Tesla's (and quite a lot cheaper too!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One thing about EV charging is rapid charging is expensive unless your car has a deal. Eg Hyundai gets cheap Ionity because they were one of the initial investors. Most cars are restricted to rapid charge 100kW/h or slow AC eg 7kW/h on a public charge.
This is why we chose a wee Renault Zoe as an EV because we can’t charge at home but can charge on the cheaper AC at 22kW/h. I believe these are everywhere in France.
I also know of a free charger in Glasgow and use this all the time.
Another car that can charge at full speed on these is a Tesla.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So thought I would do a write up of our trip as I think its an interesting output from us.
Last year we split the trip into 3 sections Hampshire -> Ashford, Ashford via tunnel -> Annecy and then Annecy to Val D'Isere. Last year it was done in an SQ5 and this time in a Model Y Performance (but running 19s with all-seasons). It's family with two kids so we did end up stopping every so often. We used the following charges
* Fully charged at home in Hampshire
* Maidstone just to top up a bit in case the eurotunnel was busy - 28Kwh. Chargers was fairly empty
* Eurotunnel while waiting - 28Kwh. Chargers was fairly empty but it was around 5am
* Aire D'Urvillers for Breakfast - 59Kwh (15 minutes max over last year)
* Troyes for Lunch - 55Kwh (15 minutes max over last year)
* Aire du Jura for afternoon stack - 59Kwh (15 minutes max over last year)
* Albertville for Breakfast - 62Kwh (15 minutes max over last year)
* Val D'Isere with 61% left of the battery
So the trip out probably took just under an hour longer than last year which is fine. Cost was interesting as charging cost us £71.40 vs last year around £83 each way in diesel so it ended up costing less which I was not expecting given this was all public charging. Worth noting that the drive this year overall did take a bit longer again but purely as we were limited to 110 vs 130 due to rain for a chunk of the journey though France although did go 125/130 when ever we could so were certainly not trying to drive efficiently, we just drove like we did the year before.
The trip back took a bit longer - we split it into two stopping at Reims for the night on Saturday. The stops didn't quite line up so well and it was busier - Troyes with 26 chargers were full and at one point when we got out spot had another 7 lined up but there was a ranger keeping a queue and cars were moving on so only had to wait 5-10 minutes. At Reims we also had to queue up for 5 minutes too so it did take us a bit longer coming back.
Overall it was not a problem. Fairly painless. Is it the same and as quick as a non EV no - is it for everyone No but for us it was. We did choose the chargers rather than rely on Tesla routing and used ABRP because we needed to make sure we had enough charger to get back down the mountain and also didn't want to get to chargers with <10% which was often suggested. It also allowed us to line them up for lunch etc.
We didn't buy the EV for the trip to the Alps but have found that its essentially made no difference for us to drive vs our old SQ5 - much more space in the back for the kids.
Below is a graphic of my charges
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One of the concerns voiced about EVs in general is about the conditions in which Cobalt is currently mined. However a new recycling method has the potential to drastically reduce the requirements to mine new cobalt.
It uses a liquid solvent derived from urine and acetic acid, the main ingredient in vinegar.
The scientists say that it is able to recover a whopping 97% of cobalt from a battery, all while relying on harmless chemicals and much less energy than current processes.
“The combination of readily available and relatively harmless substances and high energy efficacy gives our method potential to work for large-scale extraction,” said Ian Nicholls, a professor at Linnaeus University, in a press release.
Sounds like piss and vinegar could be the way forward.... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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... also the new LFP batteries are supposedly cobalt free anyway.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Quick Update - Those who are aware of the bank of Tesla Superchargers in the Auberge Moissons in Matouges, they are, according to the Hotel, being converted to take CCS connection EVs on 15th April (2024).
Just a shame I'm looking to stay there on 11th...
(But there are 8x 150KWh chargers at E Leclerc 6km away - which we had to use last year, so not a disaster).
But for those who don't drive all the way in one go, it's a good hotel for the way home: close to the autoroute, 3.5 hours from Calais, and been used by a number of SH over the years as I recall. This upgrade will make it even more attractive I think.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| Quick Update - Those who are aware of the bank of Tesla Superchargers in the Auberge Moissons in Matouges, they are, according to the Hotel, being converted to take CCS connection EVs on 15th April (2024). |
Converted, or being opened up to non-Tesla cars? As far as I know, all Tesla Superchargers (outside of North America) have CCS connectors, including that one at Chalons-en-Champagne. It’s currently Tesla-only, but Tesla are slowly opening up their Supercharger stations to other brands so maybe that’s what the hotel meant?
One word of caution, that Supercharger only has 4 charging stalls offering 150kW max. When I was driving back from the Alps at New Year there were 20 minute queues there. If you can get to Troyes, the Supercharger there has 28 stalls open to all cars, up to 250kW.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think that's right Rob. Poor choice of words on my part.
I couldn't use it last year for sure, but asked if they were now available to non Tesla's, and they came back with a date..
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Journey from Shropshire to Serre Chevalier back in January (mid - farmers strikes so a few autoroute closures!) in a 2024 Polestar 2 82kWh. Really easy drive down, most stops were at superfast chargers, no queues, and we did not stop any longer than we usually do in a diesel van, just long enough for a comfort break and a coffee.
Total return journey:
1657.6 miles
35.2 kWh/100miles
32hr 03min driving
£230.33 total cost
Stops at:
Cobham - Ionity
Folkestone - Tesla, while waiting for the Shuttle
Aire de Barelle Ionity
Troyes Sud Ionity
Overnight stop at the Greet Hotel, Beaune, they have 8 superfast Electra chargers in the car park, basic rooms but very comfy, friendly staff, good food and very cheap! We will stay here again.
Isle D'Abeau Ionity, only stopped for 5 mins as needed a wee and about to go cross country due to the road closures, did not need to charge but plugged in anyway
Seyssins, Grenoble Ionity - this one is at the Intermarche and across the road from Grand Frais so charged to nearly 100% while purchasing my own body weight in cheese 
Arrived SC with about 70%
Serre Chevalier - We could not get the Reseau Eborn charger in La Salle Les Alpes to work with the app, luckily had enough charge to get back to Grenoble. Did see other vehicles charging on it though, maybe with a charge card.
Return journey took a bit longer as we did not stop overnight, so no overnight charge, and no time to charge at the tunnel, which combined added about an hour of charging time that we didn't have on the outward trip, it made for a very long day so will stop next time. Added stops at Champfleury L'Eclerc, and Tournus Tesla supercharger.
All in all it was easier than I thought it would be - but I can imagine the chargers will fill up quickly on busy weekends
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
Quick Update - Those who are aware of the bank of Tesla Superchargers in the Auberge Moissons in Matouges, they are, according to the Hotel, being converted to take CCS connection EVs on 15th April (2024).
Just a shame I'm looking to stay there on 11th...
(But there are 8x 150KWh chargers at E Leclerc 6km away - which we had to use last year, so not a disaster).
But for those who don't drive all the way in one go, it's a good hotel for the way home: close to the autoroute, 3.5 hours from Calais, and been used by a number of SH over the years as I recall. This upgrade will make it even more attractive I think. |
Well we stopped at the Auberge des Moissons hotel, and as a bonus, the Tesla supercharger was already available to us non Tesla drivers. As usual, those cars that can't cope with the short cables may struggle, but yes, it is there, it works, and the hotel really is very nice.
pepper67 I too stopped in Beaune on the way down, close to 3 or 4 other 'traveller' hotels, and every one seemed to have charging facilities, albeit of varying speeds. They really are set up properly in France. Sigh.
Ionity (Electroverse) and Tesla (app) all the way down to Les Arcs via Morzine; Teslas all the way back, including the Calais check in. (Note - chosen by the inbuilt Volvo route planner / satnav, not any deliberate hard work on my part! )
1550 miles, no problems at all (Oh: there was one off-motorway stop, with a cafe that was shut mid afternoon, but a minor firstworldproblem). It really is very easy!
Octopus Electroverse now seem now to support multiple credit cards on the RFID. I think it is quite new, possibly activated in the last week or so, as we had previously two accounts / RFID cards, one for Sterling UK one for Euro account. Save on all that nasty FX costs. But now, I have both accounts on the one card - and can just switch the 'active' credit card as I go through the tunnel.
When I get around to changing our home provider, they also offer a discount to Octopus home users, so that'll be a nice bonus too.
And a "price plunge" thing - bigger discount at specific but random times / days. To be honest, seem a matter of luck as opposed to judgement. If you're not travelling that time / day, it makes no difference, and it you are, well, you're going to stop anyway.
Or .. do some of you actually plan your stops based on price of charge?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| When I get around to changing our home provider, they also offer a discount to Octopus home users, so that'll be a nice bonus too. |
If you are switching to Octopus at home I can let you have a referral code for a £50 discount.
Do you have a Tesla subscription to make the cost of their Supercharging a bit cheaper?
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@rob@rar, referral codes always welcome! Hopefully you will get something out of it too. DM me?
No Tesla subscription, we don't go on enough long journeys to make it worthwhile, normally charging at home. Maybe 3, 4 times a year and it is, what, £13 a month? - savings would need to be substantial for that to pay off I think.
But we do like the Superchargers: The per kWh rate is significantly cheaper than alternatives already, so I'm surprised not to see more non-Teslas at the stations - we're often the only one there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I rented a Volvo XC40 recharge (80kwh battery) from Hertz at Geneva a couple of weeks ago, and drove to Les Menuires via Chamonix each way.
A few observations on the journey:
1) Car started with 91% charge, Hertz told me as long as it had 75% on return that was fine.
2) Driving up to resort from Moutiers used 15% (c. 12kWh)
3) Driving back down to Moutiers regenerated 5% (c. 4kWh) so no need to charge to 100% in resort
4) Les Menuires had at least a dozen AC chargers (on which the Volvo drew 11kW) in the central underground carpark just off Croisettes. Idle fees + parking fees mean they don't get over-occupied and it was easy to recharge while having dinner one night.
5) Prior to return, I charged at junction 13.1 of the A40, at https://g.co/kgs/xTEv5cL From here, it used 5% charge to get back to Hertz.
Based on Hertz rates, renting an EV got me many car classes "better" than the equivalent petrol; the XC40 was the same price as a polo, but much bigger, 4WD, 400hp.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowdave wrote: |
| ... the XC40 was the same price as a polo ... |
Wow 
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@snowdave, nice. And that's the bigger XC40 too - mine is the 70kWh battery (single motor). May well look at Hertz when going further afield.
I did wonder how long it would take them to work out how to get people to put the charge back in the car on rental return - it's not like you can get close and then fill up, as with petrol. 75% seems a reasonable compromise.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
@snowdave, nice. And that's the bigger XC40 too - mine is the 70kWh battery (single motor). May well look at Hertz when going further afield.
I did wonder how long it would take them to work out how to get people to put the charge back in the car on rental return - it's not like you can get close and then fill up, as with petrol. 75% seems a reasonable compromise. |
Yep, they seem quite sensible on this. The recharge fee if I'd gone under was CHF1.30/kWh which I was fine to pay if necessary. However, the Allego station near the Swiss border/A40 junction was really well situated, with a bunch of 300kW chargers, so it was only a few minutes to bring it to 85% and be totally safe.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
| - it's not like you can get close and then fill up, as with petrol. 75% seems a reasonable compromise. |
There's a Tesla Supercharger (open to all vehicles, 24 stalls @250kW, 0.35-0.39 CHF/kWH*) about 4 minutes drive from the rental return garage at GVA. Also two more Superchargers, also open to all, about 20 minutes drive from the P51 garage (20x250kW at Saint-Julien-en-Genevois; 8x150kW in Archamps - €0.27-€0.35 kWH*). Returning an EV with the correct level charge really couldn't be any easier. If I can get an EV for about the price of a Polo I'm very happy to switch from ICE for rentals at GVA.
* Tesla prices.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Driving down to Austria I normally pass through Luxembourg, old habit from diesel days, Lux has cheap-ish diesel and prices at motorway services same as other stations. Nowadays I normally use Tesla Superchargers enroute but a few days ago I needed caffeine so stop at Berchem on A3 Luxembourg. There were some Chargy 350kw chargers so I plugged in for 11 mins. Used credit card to pay, didn't notice the rate displayed at the time. Checking my bank statement since I was charged a mere 5.20 eurs for 22kwh , now that's a bargain, under 24 cents a kwh. The coffee was pretty good and cheap too.
The route to Austria (Calais -> Lillie -> Namur -> Arlon -> Lux -> Zweibrucken -> Landau -> Karlshrue -> Stuttgart -> Ulm -> Munich -> Salzburg -> mountains.
Piles of Tesla SCs on this route, so many I can relax and enjoy the autobahn speeds. Was a gap between Arlon and Karlshrue (via Landau) but end of last year new SC at Zweibrucken - in a out of town shopping centre - be warned gets very busy at weekends and one time I arrived and tw&ts parked and blocking half the SC spaces, though there's also a bank of other high speed chargers in the car park, so used those for an expensive top up.
When in Austria (Schladming) currently no high speed chargers locally, but some were installed last year at local Eni gas station but still not connected and no doubt will be uber expensive when they are. There are however lots of AC chargers, most go up to 22kw but Tesla at least maxes out at 11 for AC. The lift station car parks have lots of chargers, using credit card can pay I think 22 euros for as much as you want - works out okay if you have a near empty battery and go off skiing for the day. Otherwise best prices I have found are a local Spar (AC) or a Lidl in Altenmarkt (on way to Zauchansee) 35 cents with Lidl Plus app and 50kw CSS. I've used the Octopus Electroverse a few times, works well and always seems cheaper than chargemap or shell cards I have but never used. There's a Tesla SC at Flachau if I happen to be that way.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Arctic Roll, Europcar haven’t worked out how to charge for this yet so you can take it back with any charge %.
They keep telling us it’s going to be 80% and an extra charge if it comes back below this. But I’ve got cars booked right up to next Feb and they all say “full charge included” so no need to worry.
Europcar tend to have an ID3 for only a few quid more than a Polo, and an ID4 for not much more.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
How much does it cost to charge an EV for an Alps trip? And (typically) how many charges are required these days?  |
I cost us essentially the same as it cost in diesel using superchargers (Audi SQ5 vs Model Y Performance). We only stopped once more than we did when driving a non ev - 6 stops
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 16-04-24 7:39; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
| How much does it cost to charge an EV for an Alps trip? And (typically) how many charges are required these days? |
II give a breakdown of the energy costs and charging requirements for my drive to the Alps (from SW London) in this post. Probably around half the cost of the same journey in the diesel Kia Sportage I used to own.
In terms of charging time, it was a longer journey for sure, 90-120 minutes longer, but for me that was of no significance as it was a travel day. Leaving an hour earlier and arriving an hour later makes no difference to me for that travel day, it's still a travel day.
Probably important to bear in mind that the cost of a drive to the Alps is determined by public charging rates. For most of the year, about 90% of my energy consumption, I charge at home on a domestic tariff. My car has a summer/winter range of about 305/270 miles on a full charge. It costs me less than £6 for a full charge. That's hugely cheaper than it was costing me to fill up the Sportage with diesel.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
As a non-EV user I can't say I'm looking forward to the day when we are all forced to "walk down to Electric Avenue."  |
It is certainly a different experience. As with all things, change requires, well, change. If people aren't happy with change then it might not be a positive experience for them.
For me that change has, for the vast majority of days of the year, meant that driving an EV is more convenient than driving an ICE car, not less convenient. No more trips to the garage to fill up with smelly diesel, simply plug in at home (takes less than 10 seconds) and the car refuels when I'm asleep.
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Similar to Rob, using Tesla SC I expect I'm paying no more than about 7-8p/mile so about half what I was paying in the Skoda diesel. That's not allowing for the free 250miles of charge I started with (local council have free EV charging in their car parks). En route charging was generally done to coincide with natural rest stops either for coffee, a pee, supermarket or at the hotel. Having been in a serious accident (off work for 6 months with brain injury) caused by a tired driver, I'm fairly conscious about taking regular breaks.
There's still work to be done to make normal chargers to be as easy to use as Tesla but it is getting better, with more accepting a simple tap of a bank card.
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@snowdave, that’s a helpful charger if Europcar ever get round to requiring a charge on return - it looks like you can nip off the motorway and straight back on and there’s some 300kWh chargers?
I’ve actually got back to GVA from Morzine with just over 80% in a VW IDBuzz, which is basically like driving a brick, so in most cases, even if they do start asking for 80%, I think I could do it in most cars, but assming that’s just a whizz off the motorway that’s a really useful stop.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
@snowdave, that’s a helpful charger if Europcar ever get round to requiring a charge on return - it looks like you can nip off the motorway and straight back on and there’s some 300kWh chargers?
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Yep, it's an easy on/off junction, with a pizza place if you're hungry, and ?a dozen? chargers of which 6 were 300kW, all empty when I arrived around 2pm on a Saturday.
If I'd charged to 97% in Chamonix I could definitely have made Geneva (100km, with the first 20k downhill) above the 75% threshold.
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I have now been given a Mitsubishi Hybrid Plug-in EV a couple of times from Hertz GVA Swiss side which is great, however I have not been able to take advantage of the battery for the drive back to airport the wall socket cable has a Swiss plug which is incompatible with the french socket in my garage. I wanted to check if it is safe to use a socket converter or if I should invest in something more heavy duty converter or worst case have a sparky fit a Swiss socket in garage for future use. I dont particulally need to use a public charger as the car normally sits idle for the weekend and have ample time to home charge.
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FAQ
