I've commented enough on other people's skiing and someone suggested that those who comment should throw up an example of their own skiing - so here goes. Would have liked to have shown something steeper but the Avy level was 3, the sun was strong and some slopes had already avalanched so we stuck to sub 30 Degree slopes
1.
Skiing shallow powder with a thin breakable crust. I'm on light touring skis with a circa 90mm waist.
Started off with long turns and should have looked where I was going instead of at the camera at the end (already posted in another thread)
Your skiing is obviously a much higher level than mine. One thing I do share with you is that as soon as a camera is trained on you, that's exactly when gremlins set in!!
Seriously though looked like a fantastic day's skiing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Brave man!
I'll have a shot with:
the more demanding the snow the more you have to use your body as a flywheel. Tighten up your core and keep your upper body still with your arms out in a hoop. I sometimes picture a large scoop lying across both my arms that I'm using to push back the top of the snow ahead of me. The irregulatities are going to push your legs about so be ready to push back. However, make sure you still keep the suspension soft so you can ride out any bumps. It helps if you anticipate them.
DB, Very nice, you do favour one side more than the other, something I need to work on too!
All my videos are from my POV, I will have to ask a mate if he has some that I can put up.
I have been compared to a wiggly piece of string, but being 6ft 4 and mostly leg there isn't an easy way to get over that!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
DB, hard to tell from the videos, but in the 2nd one I see a fair bit of tip lift, you are lifting the inside ski to complete the turn???
The turns also seems a bit rushed to me, I think you could calm everything down a touch....
In fact having looked again I think you are lifting the inner ski to finish the turn, which I suspect will catch you out in difficult snow, I have no idea if that's because it's grabby snow or whether you do that all the time, but that is something I'd be working on.....
BTW does anyone know if you can slow down youtube videos and then step frame by frame??
Some video of you skiing past would be good, I cannot see how centered you are on the ski from those 2 films....
Normally when we ski down the first skier puts the first powder track in and then everyone uses the snow economically with parallel lines. The Austrians wedel down putting in short turns, I often go last and either put another line in next to theirs or put long turns right through theirs
Although the snow wasn't deep or steep it was catching a lot of people out that day. The sun and wind meant there was a variable crust thickness and depth of snow underneath. Further up we had even hit ice patches. The tracks in the snow before mine are all from others in the group - everyone of them is an Austrian who started skiing as a young child. As can be seen from the tracks - they were catching edges left and right and going off in all directions. I started approx 15 years ago when I was in my late 20's.
In the second clip at first I was aiming for the little jump then I tried to head to my left (to the right as you look at the picture) and put a track next to theirs. Where I tried to put the track in the slope was banked slightly and my left turns felt really graby. I'm puposefully doing slight dolpin turns to minimise catching edges and using them to stay centered. The tips of the touring skis are very soft and are easily deflected. The fact that the snow is banked, the conditions are crusty and variable and the line I'm trying to follow is irregular is all throwing me off. I should have just blasted throught their lines again although crossing their tracks could have easily have taken me out and I wanted to have some shorts turns on tape. (don't have any other recent clips of me skiing)
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 21-03-13 13:16; edited 2 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB, your mates said it. Der Mann aus dem Königreich... Er kommt nicht in den Flow...
Although I thought you were not doing too badly tbh.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Steilhang wrote:
DB, your mates said it. Der Mann aus dem Königreich... Er kommt nicht in den Flow...
Although I thought you were not doing too badly tbh.
Translates to something like - "The man from England, he just can't get in the flow."
Lukas always takes the mickey, you should have seen the others ski down (the tracks say it all).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kitenski wrote:
BTW does anyone know if you can slow down youtube videos and then step frame by frame??
It is tricky, as you probably understand, as there are not really frames but just bits of frames due to the compression. You can download the video then step through with an editor that can read mp4 format but the results are not always great.
It was a bit hard to see much to form any impression in those clips.
Inner tip lift, yeah I saw that too, it isn't great I agree, I do it. Even Ingrid Backstrom does it as do some other reputable skiers.
Did you have a lot of weight in your rucksack CB? It seemed to be pulling you into a sitting position. Your friends are rude "er kommt nicht in den flow, ueberhaupt nichts" is pretty strong stuff, at least they didn't call you an inselaffe but apart from the point Kitty makes the second clip looks alright.
Were you skiing or was it lift served?
Given what you say about the variable crust it is nice just to survive, you looked pretty good given those conditions.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I certainly don't see any huge issues in the technique, everyone stiffens up a little more when it gets crusty and catchy so fair's fair and not doing uniform turns all the way down is not a sign of bad technique.
If you really want some improvement feedback I would say instead of pushing hard against the ski during the turn in order to get them above the crust at the change over, try pressing lighter in the fall line and softening your knees between the turns allowing them to float up, (for the technical-term nazis out there, this is basically up-unweighting for powder). Also softening your knees will reduce the forces that catching edges and little bumps will have on your upper-body, thereby making you far more stable and less prone to those horrible twisting falls (you know the ones when oneski stops and the other carries on).
If you want a great demo of soft knees watch sean petit as much as possible, his knees are never rigid!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
DB, I don't know about the skiing, but that looked great fun, and I'm very much afraid I cracked a bit of grin when you took that unexpected purler - Sorry!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Not the best video for feedback, as not much zoom use and pretty flat runs.
The most obvious thing is that your weight is back and inside, hence the inner tip lifting. That's caused by rotating from the shoulders and hips rather than using your feet and skis. As Davidof said, it might be bachpack related, a bit of 'patroller roll' if you will. This affects your ability to keep your skis parallel as well, can you see your stance width changing in the second video as your outside ski gets away from you. If you don't stand on the outside ski, it's very difficult to then release them simultaneously. Especially strong on the turns to your right because of the shape of the hill.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well done for putting the video up. No way could I begin to comment on anyone who goes out skiing with Austrians like that - even if they are rude to you. Better than I could ever aspire to, that's for sure!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
jimmer, yup couldn't put it better so I won't.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof wrote:
It was a bit hard to see much to form any impression in those clips.
Inner tip lift, yeah I saw that too, it isn't great I agree, I do it. Even Ingrid Backstrom does it as do some other reputable skiers.
I think it's a survival tactic and don't think it would normally be an issue in snow without a crust. Think I'm resetting a deflected inner ski rather than trying to steer it round - a lot of racers do it too. Having said that the worst snow does bring out the smallest of imperfections - something for me to work on.
davidof wrote:
Did you have a lot of weight in your rucksack CB? It seemed to be pulling you into a sitting position.
Yes the rucksack is heavy - it's an old ABS rucksack I've had since 2006. I drink a lot of water and carry too much stuff too. Skins, crampons, shovel, probe, spare gloves, hat, suncream camera, fleece, GPS, makeupbag etc were all in there.
davidof wrote:
Your friends are rude "er kommt nicht in den flow, ueberhaupt nichts" is pretty strong stuff, at least they didn't call you an inselaffe but apart from the point Kitty makes the second clip looks alright.
They call me "Inselaffe" (island Monkey) too but it's all done in jest. There's always a good group feeling of Schadenfreude when someone goes off course or hits the deck. I give as good as I get - even in their language
davidof wrote:
Were you skiing or was it lift served?
Given what you say about the variable crust it is nice just to survive, you looked pretty good given those conditions.
Thanks, we skinned up.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 22-03-13 9:59; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Megamum wrote:
DB, I don't know about the skiing, but that looked great fun, and I'm very much afraid I cracked a bit of grin when you took that unexpected purler - Sorry!
Knew you'd like it. I don't fall often but when I do, I don't do it by halfs.
The only other two times I fell last weekend were when I skied into a snowhole in flat light and when I hit a post just under the snow. Worst thing was I couldn't work out what the post was but thought I had dropped something so had to side step back up the hill to see what it was.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
altis, , Chattonmill, dulcamara & jimmer thanks for your comments too.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Can you carve this sort of stuff or is it better to put in short flapper/dolpin turns ?
DB, yes you could do carved turns, neither is 'better' it would depend on snow conditions, how busy the piste was, what you were trying to acheive etc etc
I wouldn't recommend the flapper/tail lifts in breakable crust, too easy to dive the tips if you time it wrong, it would be good for you to practice that on piste though. Dolphin has the advantage that you move your weight back through the pressure phase, but probably more applicable in bumps and steeper terrain. For low angle stuff where you don't need much speed control, carving's the way to go for sure.
As I said though, carving will be tricky until you get better upper body discipline.
I see a lot of old school Austrian skiers who believe that "to Wedeln" tight quick turns is the pinnacle of skiing and they ski perfectly well off piste. Many of whom say you don't need to carve offpiste, some even go as far as to say you shouldn't carve offpiste. Suspect their technique is fine when the slope is steep enough but hard work in the conditions shown in my videos.
I do wonder if me trying to match their tracks is causing me to rush and over-steer etc and that I would be better putting in a carved track with less sharp (elongated) turns and carrying more speed to bust me through.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 22-03-13 12:50; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB, do you really mean carving off piste, or longer more rounded turns? I suspect the latter?
This is me in some cut up off piste snow on 78mm under foot skis, trying to do more rounded controlled turns..
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 22-03-13 12:44; edited 2 times in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
jimmer wrote:
As I said though, carving will be tricky until you get better upper body discipline.
Are you seeing this in both videos? (The last turn in both videos I am just using to scrub off speed and being lazy looking at the camera.)
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kitenski wrote:
DB, do you really mean carving off piste, or longer more rounded turns? I suspect the latter?
Trying to workout which is the best/optimum form of skiing for this type of terrain. I mean carving in the sense that the skis are on edge throughout the turn (albeit a lower edge angle and the the whole base of the ski being used as an edge) as opposed to hoping from edge to edge with a pullback motion and/or a Wedeln type movement.
Your clip is more the type of turns I would aim for when on a piste as opposed to shoulders square to the fall line type offpiste skiing like this.
PS Are you dropping your right hand in the first clip?
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
DB, yes hand dropping an old habit!!
that was horrible chopped up lumpy snow, standard back bottom wiggling short turns (like those in your picture) would have ended up in a face plant and no control of speed......
and yes longer smoother large radius turns would be good IMHO for crust and difficult snow
For off piste I do believe you need a large kit bag of turn types and turn shape
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
kitenski wrote:
DB, yes hand dropping an old habit!!
Thought so, old habits die hard especially where skiing is concerned.
kitenski wrote:
that was horrible chopped up lumpy snow, standard back bottom wiggling short turns (like those in your picture) would have ended up in a face plant and no control of speed......
That's the sort of thing I call my Austrian friends in retaliation, "bottom wigglers", "1930' Wedelers" or "sperm-turners"
kitenski wrote:
and yes longer smoother large radius turns would be good IMHO for crust and difficult snow
For off piste I do believe you need a large kit bag of turn types and turn shape
The longer turns in the first clip felt much more comfortable. The second clip felt like riding a bike so slowly that you start to lose balance. It's difficult to work out if you have used the wrong tool or the right tool in the wrong way.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
jimmer wrote:
As I said though, carving will be tricky until you get better upper body discipline.
Are you seeing this in both videos? (The last turn in both videos I am just using to scrub off speed and being lazy looking at the camera.)
I can see the inner tip lift up in the first video as well, plus it look like the only way you get edge angles is by either leaning your whole body in, or pushing your heels out, 2 things which make true carving hard.
Your definition of carving is a little different though
Quote:
I mean carving in the sense that the skis are on edge throughout the turn
that's a very good thing to do, but it's not necessarily carving.
As for having a 'tool bag' of turn types, I really wouldn't agree, solid fundamentals will take you a long way. I think about the same things off piste as I do on piste and the mechanics of my turns aren't very different regardless of conditions.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
jimmer wrote:
As for having a 'tool bag' of turn types, I really wouldn't agree, solid fundamentals will take you a long way. I think about the same things off piste as I do on piste and the mechanics of my turns aren't very different regardless of conditions.
Perhaps I was't clear, you must agree there are many turn types and although the fundamentals are the same, many things change, off the top of my head - aggressive, skiing on egg shells, the amount of weight distribution over each ski, centered or forward in your boots, long turns, short turns, cross over/cross under, body position(ie more upright for bumps), I've even done snow plough turns off piste in very poor vis, or when I'm not sure under foot etc etc
That's what I mean by a tool bag of turns
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kitenski wrote:
jimmer wrote:
As for having a 'tool bag' of turn types, I really wouldn't agree, solid fundamentals will take you a long way. I think about the same things off piste as I do on piste and the mechanics of my turns aren't very different regardless of conditions.
Perhaps I was't clear, you must agree there are many turn types and although the fundamentals are the same, many things change, off the top of my head - aggressive, skiing on egg shells, the amount of weight distribution over each ski, centered or forward in your boots, long turns, short turns, cross over/cross under, body position(ie more upright for bumps), I've even done snow plough turns off piste in very poor vis, or when I'm not sure under foot etc etc
That's what I mean by a tool bag of turns
Fair enough, I just find a lot of people on here complicate things unnecessarily by having different techniques for different snow, when what they most need to do is just change edges cleanly, tip the skis over and turn them without turning their upper body. If you can do that solidly on piste, chances are you'll be able to do it off piste as well.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Going skiing tomorrow so just repacked the rucksack and weighed it - 10.2 kg
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB wrote:
Going skiing tomorrow so just repacked the rucksack and weighed it - 10.2 kg
How many bottles of beer have you got in there?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
davidof wrote:
DB wrote:
Going skiing tomorrow so just repacked the rucksack and weighed it - 10.2 kg
How many bottles of beer have you got in there?
Not sure, but never enough
The ABS ruck sack itself is max 3.5 kg, the water bladder is 2 Litre so that's another circa 2kg. Didn't think my skins, shovel and other stuff would be over 4 kg. Think I need to give it a bit of a spring clean / clearout
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski wrote:
DB, For off piste I do believe you need a large kit bag of turn types and turn shape
In both of the videos you skiied the conditions confidently, nice skiing. It's difficult to tell much from the video as you're small in the frame. As you pulled up/fell both times you appeared to be really open at the ankle.
I would suggest playing with the position of your feet under your body by creating more flex in your boot/ankle/shin pressure. The heavy pack will obviously pull your centre back. Being able to shift your platform forwards and backwards to help your positioning may help quieten the upper body cranking round to drive the skis harder.
I like to feel pressure more through the heels rather than the balls of the feet in pow to stop that hooky feeling.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
- Sorry!
