 Poster: A snowHead
|
OK - I'll kick this one off, despite probably having tested the fewest skis here, and having the least experience of trying out different skis generally.
I got to try out three pairs duing our time there - all slalom(ish) as I'm on a bit of a racing kick at the moment. I normally ski all-mountain skis, so this was a bit of a new experience. They were Dynamic VR27 Slalom, Elan SLX Fusion (both retail rather than full on race dept), and Stockli Spirit Pro (their on-piste carver rather than the more race-orientend Laser). I had about 2 hours on each of the first two, and just over three days on the last. However with the length of the queues this actually only meant about 4-5 runs on each of the test skis. I took each ski on a couple of fairly wide (steepish) blue slopes, a bit of frozen crud (although pretty smooth and easy for that) and a steep but moderately firm off-piste slope. Unfortunately I only got to do poles/gates with the Stockli.
Dynamic VR27 (165cm): definitely a specialist slalom ski. Staggering edge hold which really railed short-radius turns, and it really let you know about the 11m natural radius. But by golly did you have to work them to get any rebound. I found them quite difficult to get tighter turns than that, even with a lot of angulation. But even with a fair bit of care they really did not want to make large radius turns - trying a sort of sweeping GS turn ended up with skis in different directions and a bit of one-footed recovery required. Swing turns down the fall-line were possible once you got going, but slow speed slipping (side-slips, falling leaf, pivots on the spot etc) were virtually impossible. The steep section was possible, but I really needed to get out of jump turning down my metal couloir and carve the rest of the slope as soon as that became possible.
Overall this quite surprised me as their marketing on their website makes such a big point about how much more flexible and forgiving the skis were than a normal race ski. And this was all on the retail stock, so what the race stock ski would be I shudder to think.
Elan SLX Fusion (165): As another highly recommended slalom ski, this was the other one I really wanted to check out. From the first second the skis went on it was obvious they were at the complete opposite end to the VR27 - they wanted to skid at every opportunity. I found it really hard to stick to a carve on these, and I never really got to trust the edge-hold: I would need to get back to them to make a valid comparison, but I think my all-mountain Legend 8000s have a better basic edge hold. But they were super for anything old style you wanted to do - swings down the fall-line were a dream, and they were really easy jumping down the steep. However, half-way down my last piste run, I finally worked out how to ski them...get your body in exactly the right position  . I have a problem of tending to sit in the back seat, but once I got my nose over the spatula tips (for slalom), or was diving down their length (for GS) they suddenly came alive. Otherwise I felt them to be little different from any other hire-shop punter ski.
So a great training ski (for anyone with similar faults to me), in that they will do nothing for you until you are perfectly positioned over them, but otherwise nothing out of the ordinary. I might but a 2nd hand pair as a trainer, but I certainly wouldn't buy them new.
Stockli Spirit Pro (160cm) : This is their model down from the full on slalom ski, the Laser which JT and ise were skiing - and comes into the "on-piste carver" category  . This was my hire ski for the 4 days, so I got to know them much better than the other two. As the first ski I'd tried on snow after a summer on Dendix the edge hold was a complete revelation - I could trust these for absolutely any angulation I wanted. I'm not good enough to get my hip onto the snow in a tight turn, but I had no worries about trying to get a bit further over each time I tried and this ski just invites you got further - so it would be rude not to. I had a race training session using these and was committing myself to moves I would never have considered on anything else I've skied (not that that's saying much though). It's rebound out of such turns is also incredible, but also forgiving. Fairly near the beginning I was hooning it a bit on a wide turn, got a bit in the back seat and the skis jetted out in front of me - but then rather than following through and dumping me on my back they sort of waited for me to catch up, carry on and say "just a caution this time - do it right next time". Short swings were almost as easy as on the Elans, and the steeps were great fun: they were equally secure in carves or jumps (and rather too secure on one notable occasion, leading to much hilarity). The slow speed skiddy stuff was much more possible than with the VR27s, although not trivial: falling leaf stuff and side slipping was OK, but you had to be fairly careful not to catch unwanted edges and centring on the ski was very important. The crud was OK, but I was caught out on a bit of crust that broke under me on the first day (when we had a run of powder, solid crust and breakable crust alternating at about 10m intervals) but then the skis are really far too short for me for that stuff.
Unfortunately I didn't have time to try out Dynastar's offering (and I'm not sure they even had their slalom skis there), which is the other racy type ski I would have loved to try. But after that rave it's obvious where I'd be looking if I was aiming for a high performance piste ski. I'm sure the VR27 would do more for a better skier than me, or a full on racer, but you have to work it hard to get it to perform, and it's too much a specialist. The Stockli had all the edge grip of the VR27, was even livelier, but took half the energy to drive and was ten times as felxible. It's a shame I didn't have more time with the Elans as I felt I was only just working out how to make them work when it was time to go down for the bus, but they really were the losers for me in this.
Interesting how different people see different things, as I know David Murdoch has a completely different view of the Dynamic and Elans. Watch for his post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I tried Dynstar Legends 8000 and Lasers SC, the latter was my hire ski for the duration. I liked the SC so much I didn't see the point of the b5 which was there but being skied in 172 mostly. For the conditions which were fast blues/reds with grippy snow
I really didn't need to get off a slalom ski and once Charlotte told me to stop washing out my turns I just let them run on their natural arc and they really kicked out of the turn. As I say a real blast to ski in these conditions. I know DM liked the full blown FIS Elans and I haved tried the SLX Slalom so know it really is a ski to put on edge. There is no point with a lot of these super edgey skis unless you are really going blat down the piste. Very trsuworthy on edge which is exactly what you would expect.
The 8000 was good on the piste in a more pedestrian way than the slaloms but not bad at all. I wouldn't use it there if that was the type of skiing I was going to do all day but if you spent your time lookin for runs off the back of something the 8000 is a ski I would have no worries about taking there and it would probably cover the icy run home well enough. So that was a success for me as I know the ski is widely available in the alpes and I am sure I will end up using it. It comes very close to being the ski of choice for a day trip under the ropes.
The laser was surprising good on the steep wall type run although if the snow was less freindly it may not be such a good idea. But they get around easily of course. In this siutation they take a bit of skiing abuse and don't complain. Very pleased with them...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I tried several pairs of skis:
Nordica Doberman slaloms 155 were nice but not a "real" race ski - very easy to ski though.
Dynamic VR27 slaloms were AWESOME if you want to race - very hard work (also in 155), but would not let go. I found I had to be very far forward with very wide stance and quite crouched to get the best out of them. they are a true successor to the original VR27 slalom. Wouldn't like to ski a pair every day though!!!!
Blizzard SLR slaloms (not race) were great. I had 165 which was perfect, this was the nicest and most agile ski I tried. I would buy a pair. The edge grip was average, but edge to edge was unbelievably quick, and they let off onto a longer turn very comfortably - extremely unstable in a straight line though.
K2 slalom race I had 165 which was too long for me. A stiff and very heavy ski (even heavier than my Fischer World Cups), and might have beenOK in 155 but they didn't have any.
On sunday I got Scott detuned race slaloms, which I thought were too soft (155 again, would have been better on 165 I think) - definitely a bit dissapointing, and finally
Zag "le rouge" which I loved. I want to sell my Scratchs and buy a pair for off piste and mucking about. They had amazing edge grip considering they're not a slalom ski, turned long or short - inclination or angulation, slid happily and were just easy and bril!!!!!!!!!!! Have to say Ise will disagree though!!!
It is always interesting how personal skis are. David Murdoch (who's a very good skier BTW) had a completely different feel on the VR27s, and ditto Ise and I with the Zags.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
easiski, have you also tried the Zag Big? I would like to try out some Zag skis this season (although I've not seen any hire shops in Les Arcs with them, which seems a little bizarre considering where these skis come from).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
rob@rar.org.uk, No - I haven't tried them, they're in one of the shops here (le skirie is the group they belong to, so I don't know if they'll be in all Skirie shops). They look good, but waaayyyyy too wide for me!!!!
Jutta says they have very bad write-ups BTW. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Tried the new Rossi B2's (for a couple of days). Think I prefered last years version, but still the best skis that I tried.
K2 Apache Recons came in 2nd place. Felt a bit less stable at speed than the B2's, but I was on a longer length.
Head Monsters were a disapointment, as were the Wild Thangs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
GrahamN, thanks for the heads up on theother thread.
Elizabeth B, could you elaborate? I thought last years B2 were too soft and did not like the Monster 75 (previous model) for being too heavy. Do you think the new B2 is stiffer? Would i like them? (obviously calling upon your para normal attributes as a moderator)
JT, i also found the 8000 pretty good on piste, how would you rate it against THE XL?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sugardaddy, the reason that I haven't given more detail is that I don't know. I know what I like to ski, but can't necessarily tell you why.
The Monster just didn't feel stable on piste at moderate speed. Last year's B2 was slightly narrower which is why I think I preferred it....but then it was 6 months ago in very different conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Good reviews people.
I told you my VR27's were cool 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As GrahamN says, I beg to differ. The big "takeaway" here (apart from the Sushi I am heading out to get imminently) is that liking skis is an immensely personal experience.
I only "tested" 4 skis but also spent a little time on Rossi 9X Oversize that are a size up from my own. Which even though it was the first few runs of the season proved that extra length doesn't necessarily bring any advantage.
There weren't that many high end piste skis around and frankly, I don't think the conditions lent themselves to testing off-piste skis. So, rather on a whim Sophie and I started out on Saturday on Elan FIS (race legal) boards. Her ladyship on the WC SLX 165cm and myself on the 182cm GSX.
Just to elaborate a bit: the FIS legal bit is important as AFAIK most manufacturers use that description interchangeably with "World Cup", "Race Department" or "Race Stock". I.e. as close as you can get to what the WC folks are skiing on without having deep factory contacts. Most manufacturers have a "second line" race ski - e.g. my very own "Oversized" Rossis which are usually not so race specific. I specifically wanted to try these in FIS format - which means for men a GS ski length of ~185 cm and SL of >165cm.
A few vital stats:
Me 165cm, 63kgs, reasonably fit (run regularly, use gym regularly). Technica Icons, usual skis Rossi 9XO 160cm & Volkl P40 SL 170cm
Her (she won't like me doing this...!) 158cm, ~60kgs, not as fit but with strong wee legs. Lange Race Pro 130s, Volkl P60 WC SL 150cm, Volkl P50 WC GS 170cm.
Clearly we like "race" skis! We are both competent recreational skiers (thanks Easiski! and yes, I am now dying to work on arm "quietness"). Normal habitat is on piste, me in bumps especially and with as much off piste as can be poached.
I found the Elan GS ski to be a blast. Definitely needing working to get it to turn but turning on rails once it did. Not keen skis on skidding and definitely not ones for short radius turns. Well, they wouldn't be would they. No upper speed limit and I want a pair for those long cruisy days. I think they'd require a little more control input in bumps than my 160s but I'd like the challenge. I would imagine that they would be quite difficult to ski on if your technique is not pretty solid.
I liked the additional length here but (to an extent), if you're not racing for FIS points you might want to ski them shorter. I think they would cope. Saying that, if I bought a pair, I'd want the additional length, just for fun!
The Elan SL ski was similar in personality but obviously tuned to slalom. I could happily ski it all day. Responsive, fast, gripped like no-ones business. An absolutely unflappable ski. Quite happy running longer radius turns as well.
On the other hand (and bearing in mind that we had stinky hangovers on board) we adopted the same plan for the Dynamics on Sunday. I took the GS, Sophie the SL and we swapped after a few runs (our boots are nearly the same size).
Hmmm. They were allright, but definitely not the skis as described by Graham and Charlotte. I found that both were easy to ski, easy to skid and didn't seem to bring nearly the same confidence to the partnership that I was expecting.
Please don't get me wrong, they were very competent skis, and ones that I'd be happy skiing all day every day on (which I might not say about the Elan GS boards) but just rather less demanding and rewarding. I don't think that the hangover or the slightly changed snow would have made all that much difference; I have skied with hangovers from time to time... The one point Graham and I agreed on re skis was that the Dynamics liked hooking in traverses. Kept trying to head off up the hill on their own, the rascals.
Key lesson then: don't buy till you try!!.
The spread of technique, ability, experience and particular style is sufficiently broad that I was quite amazed to find such a variance in opinion. Very interesting.
Anyway, tippety top weekend, had a blast, met some great new ski buddies and very nice to put faces to names. Got a wee bit of colour about the gills and acquired a great new word, "furbied". If you want to know the meaning, please ask Kamikaze. That way I get into less trouble...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
sugardaddy,
I would say the XL creams it on piste, due to the edge hold, no comparisson here IMV, but it is noticable stiffer so would probably suffer just a bit, possibly, in deep snow where it wouldn't have quite so much forgiveness if thats what you needed.
But it is difficult comparing skis a season apart and on different snowpack. The soft snow we had at LDA did not expose the Laser SC on a steep run where I could imagine it giving more problems there if the snow was deeper. I actually liked the Laser there better on the day - which is why I tested so few skis - but I wouldn't take the SC out all for a day if we were looking for runs off the back.
For an off-piste day I would probably go XL as it would handle any piste runs better but if that wasn't an issue I could quite easily go for the Legends 8000 especially as they are more easy to find that Stockli's.
I suppose I will never know which ski is best for me until I compare them back to back on the same snowpack and same sort of runs. I am sure I will have fun on both..!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Elizabeth B, thanks
JT, i skied the 8000 nad found them prettty good on piste and in softer deeper stuff, in any case much better then the 05 B2 IMO. Having never skied theXL, i was interested to hear from you. But i think i'm going to try to ski some carvers, as these posts have remainded me how much fun a good carving ski can be
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sugardaddy,
I think a dedicated slalom ski outclasses a typical carver. For example the b5 isn't in the same league as the laser SC and the XL comes up short there as well - not by much in terms of edge hold tho'. But the XL has loads more versatily in trickier stuff.
If you want fun ON the piste, hooning around all day then get an SLX or 9s or SC and have great fun carving. You will be able to do this almost as well on the XL but the super turney skis with their grip are right up this street. You just think turn and the Elan and their ilk are there. You need to be pretty solid to take them 'Freeride' all day tho' in whatever conditions...!!
Thats what I have been saying about the XL. Its a great ski in all snow and is right up there as a carver. But for me carving is best served on a dedicated slalom or GS ski. You make a few little compromises in this and that and you get the XL. You make a few more on piste and you get the Legends and you expect pay back in the deeper stuff cos' those babies are going to plough through all sorts of cr@p...!!
If I end up on XL's this year, I'll have a great time all over the hill. And the 8000 will be no hardship either. Thats what these tests told me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
