 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I'd be interested to know what any of you would consider a ski leader's responsibilities (or response) should be in the event of a skier having to be stretchered off the mountain wih an injury likely to take them to hospital.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
What do you mean by 'ski leader'? What is his relationship to the skiers?
Presumably you have been underwhelmed by somebody...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Hopalong, where and what TO . . . can't comment without more info.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Hopalong, if that ski leader is your holiday rep, I would hope he/she would give as much assistance as possible. I've known reps go to hospital with the injured person, but not sure if that is always the case. At the very least they should make sure other family members/friends are aware of the accident. Perhaps other duties may mean they can't do too much though? I imagine an instructor with other pupils would not be able to abandon the class on the mountain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Sorry if my terminology is vague. I mean a company rep who might split a whole cohort of guests into 2 or more groups, and along with local ski instructors take turn and turn about in accompanying those groups during their days' skiing but who remains, nevertheless, the person allocated / nominated by her / his company to 'look after' the guests during their holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Hopalong, username suggests you are the person who has been stretchered off the mountain. Not sure if you have an axe to grind, but without more info we're not really going to be able to help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Monium, or hinder . . . as is more usual 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hopalong, does the rep work for a tour operator, a club, or someone else entirely? Were you obliged to follow this leader?
Without some idea of the contract you agreed to, it is very difficult for us to work out whether they should have been "looking after" you or whether this was expected by you without basis in fact. We aren't going to see the contract, because from the above it seems quite clear you aren't going to tell us what company you are implicating in this, so it is an impossible discussion to have.
If the generic question is how much assistance I'd expect from an average Joe leading a few people around the mountain as part of a free service included with my holiday? Very little. I'd expect them to do the same thing any other member of the general public would do in the same circumstance - get out their mobile, call the help number on the bottom for the resort I was in, and hand over to the people that are there to recover people from the mountain. I might expect them to send someone down to the next lift station and report the incident, and to stick some skis in the snow so that I was visible from above and to rescuers. That's really about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Hopalong, if it happened in France, and if your "leader" was a tour operator employee, then that person will be trying very hard to look as least like a leader as possible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't expect more or less than I would expect from one of my ski buddies (or what I would do myself) ie: make sure you are relatively safe, contact pisteurs (either by getting someone to ski to the nearest place where they are or by phone). Wait until they arive and make sure I am on my way. Maybe deal with excess kit (skis, poles etc) if asked to do so by pisteurs
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
was it a powder day?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
As part of their on mountain leadership reponsibilities I'd say eff all once the injured party is safely handed off to rescue services and arrangements made re equipment etc, unless the injured party were an unaccompanied minor (in which case why unaccompanied?), unconscious and/or incoherent. As part of their resort service repping duties/translation/helping with logistics maybe a bit more. Assuming they meet their obligations re witness statements on collisions etc (can see this might get tricky for "social skiing hosts").
If they ski off avoiding acknowledging the incident then that's obviously different. But the OP is a bit of a blind troll at the moment.
Edit - re Arno's comments about ski buddies I can recall at least one incident where someone has been told to stop being a big girl's blouse and whinging about their broken wrist and drive themselves to hospital if they are worried;-) So maybe a little more compassionate than that if their tip depended on it.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 28-01-13 19:26; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bode Swiller, bucket of worms time . . . again! . . . Might even conceivably be a "Club" rep with one of their holidays. But without the OP at least providing country and a hint if it was a Brit TO then can't say much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Hopalong, Welcome to snowHeads. I hope you're well strapped in
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
We're you wearing a helmet? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
if i broke both my wrists, i might expect them to help me wipe my bum for the rest of the week
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Arno wrote: |
| if i broke both my wrists, i might expect them to help me wipe my bum for the rest of the week |
That's why you always want to take at least one sumo apprentice on any ski trip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
fatbob, who was the sumo apprentice last time I went skiing with you? Is it a case of "if you don't know who it is, it's you?" 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
If, however, it were someone like a Ski Club of GB rep on a Ski Club holiday I would expect much more.
This is just too vague.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| snowball wrote: |
| If, however, it were someone like a Ski Club of GB rep on a Ski Club holiday |
Oh, please, please tell us it was SKGB! Now the Simon v Chamexpress thing has died a death, we are sooooooo bored! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Was it 'social skiing'. That would be fun as well. Did you give the leader your pin/security number?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Assumption: the "leader" in question is not a friend, or related to the person injured and is acting in some professional / quasi professional capacity
I would suggest that there is a "duty of care" owed to the person injured. The leader should then:
1. Render immediate first aid / prevent the casualties condition from worsening.
2. Alert or get someone else to alert the rescue services (this may be simultaneous with 1 using another party member(s)). On a piste this would be achieved by skiing to the bottom of the nearest ski run and speaking to the lift operator who can then alert the ski patrol / calling 112 in Europe.
3. Ensure that other party members are not endangered or in a position of danger.
4. Remain on scene to pass on information / assist as required.
5. Ensure that friends / relatives of the person injured are informed (and appropriate assistance given e.g. helping arrange potential hospital visit).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Hopalong wrote: |
| I'd be interested to know what any of you would consider a ski leader's responsibilities (or response) should be in the event of a skier having to be stretchered off the mountain wih an injury likely to take them to hospital. |
With scant info I'll have a crack... once the victim is safely in the hands of the ski patrol, the leader's responsibilities are actually towards those still on the mountain with them (if that's what you're asking). By definition, if they have led a group to an area, they also need to lead "the survivors" safely back. Depending on the severity of the accident they just witnessed, some of the group may be really shaken up and need cajoling down the mountain - and that's something beyond the wit of most tour operator hosts IMO, especially in poor conditions. So is the necessary work required before the ski patrol get there - securing the area to avoid the victim being run into, summoning the ski patrol, administering first aid, ensuring the safety of the rest of the group - there's a lot to think about and I've seen instructors "freeze" so, in the case of most TO hosts, gawd 'elp you.
Clearly it's a good idea for the leader to swap info with the ski patrollers and advise the victim's family members the who/where/what of the whole thing.
Beyond that, once the victim has been whisked down the valley to some large town, there's not an awful lot that leader can do save for making sure friends/family are in the know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Forgot to add that if this is a ski town and injured party is male and has brought female partner with them, wait a respectful period of time before making move on said partner. 30 minutes in the context of a ski resort usually will do. If "leader" is female the reason she isn't more helpful is the large shitty stick she's having to use to fend off assorted pisteurs/ambulance flunkies giving her the chat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
If the generic question is how much assistance I'd expect from an average Joe leading a few people around the mountain as part of a free service included with my holiday? Very little. I'd expect them to do the same thing any other member of the general public would do in the same circumstance - get out their mobile, call the help number on the bottom for the resort I was in, and hand over to the people that are there to recover people from the mountain. I might expect them to send someone down to the next lift station and report the incident, and to stick some skis in the snow so that I was visible from above and to rescuers. That's really about it.
|
I'd agree with that. I certainly wouldn't expect much hand-holding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Some leaders (perhaps those looking after school parties) may have more responsibility but that will be part of their job, along with the teachers accompanying the kids . I think ElizabethB has mentioned this before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Were they giving you some hints and tips on your technique?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
No response . . . whiff of troll?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Masque, Give him a chance - he's a newbie & won't expect to have had such a response
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Hopalong wrote: |
| I'd be interested to know what any of you would consider a ski leader's responsibilities (or response) should be in the event of a skier having to be stretchered off the mountain wih an injury likely to take them to hospital. |
Are you an attractive and single woman?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
As long you ensured that all members of the group were wearing helmets and carried and knew how to use avi transceivers then I think the only responsibilty is to ensure that the guide/leader/host has taken lots of photos to show his or her mates, particularly if there is blood involved. Everything else is clearly not his or her fault and they should proceed with haste to the nearest bar. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I've only just come back to the computer which is why I didn't post for what is, after all, barely two hours! I had no idea there would be so many responses.
The reason I posted this in the first place was to try and get a sense of what other people might have experienced ... i.e. is it normal for 'leaders' - once they know that someone is safely in the hands of medical services - to apparently forget about them until they appear in the hotel lounge with their crutches 8 hours later?
I wouldn't expect a leader to jettison her / his duty to the other group members for the rest of the time they were on the slopes that day but I don't think it's unreasonable that they might leave their Apres Ski for an hour to make sure that the injured group member is actually OK.
Tragically I am not a young and attractive single female! I was wearing a helmet and if it was a 'powder day' I don't think I was in it - it was a fairly straightforward easy red piste.
And the reason I wanted other peoples' perspective on this is because I do not want to complain to the company concerned only to be told that I should take my mother with me next time!
Thanks very much to everyone who replied. There's no benefit to anyone in naming the tour operator and I don't want to be sued. I'm not being coyly evasive and it would be a poor show if I claimed a company's rep had been over-casual if in fact such behaviour is entirely normal. Every social situation seems to have its own mores. I needed to understand the status quo for this one and I'm grateful to those of you who dealt with it as a generic if uselessly vague question.
PS. What's a Troll?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| PJSki wrote: |
| Hopalong wrote: |
| I'd be interested to know what any of you would consider a ski leader's responsibilities (or response) should be in the event of a skier having to be stretchered off the mountain wih an injury likely to take them to hospital. |
Are you an attractive and single woman? |
Yeah but she's not deranged.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Hopalong, if it was a tour operator rep/host/whatever, I would absolutely expect them to at least go ask after your welfare if, say, you were in a very local clinic being fixed up. Or send another member of staff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
| Hopalong wrote: |
| I'd be interested to know what any of you would consider a ski leader's responsibilities (or response) should be in the event of a skier having to be stretchered off the mountain wih an injury likely to take them to hospital. |
Are you an attractive and single woman? |
Yeah but she's not deranged. |
Yeah, but has a pair of crutches - gigity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hopalong, You have every right to be miffed and don't worry about being sued. A rep of some sort should have made inquiries to your welfare. The leader/host whatever should have let his manager know the situation and they should have made sure of what was happening to you and what treatment you might need in or out of resort.
Ok, where are you, and is it a Brit company (no names is ok) but it may have some bearing on their behavior.
Troll: someone who posts just to gain a rise or response and not usually for the better. A poo flinger for the fun of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hopalong, If the leader/rep did everything necessary to put you in the safe hands of the medical services then surely job done? If it was a holiday rep (rather than simple a social ski facilitator (ie not a qualified guide) then I would expect then to give contact phone number, but not to sit by my bedside. Glad you (hopefully) wern't too badly hurt and have/had a speedy recovery
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Hopalong, since most (though not all) seem to have forgotten in the excitement - Welcome to Snowheads!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"leaders " ,...not reps then ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
