| have you gone duck? |
| never tried it, never will |
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| tried it, didn't like it |
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| tried it and am converted |
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| not tried it, but I'll give it a go at some point |
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| quack!! |
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[ 9 ] |
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| Voted : 27 |
| Total Votes : 24 |
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I posted this comment on Goneboarding but I thought that I'd also kick it off here as I am now a total evangelist when it comes to stance angles.
Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted but this little revelation has brought about the biggest improvement in my riding for several years:
I have recently seen the light and have totally changed my binding angles.
I have spent the last 6 years getting to be a reasonably good freerider and have assumed that an "alpine" stance is essential for good control when going forward. For the last few years, my bindings have been at approx +35 front and +12 rear.
Obviously this makes riding fakie rather difficult but i was not willing to sacrifice forward control in order to perfect tricks. I just assumed that duck stance is only for trick merchants.
How wrong i was!
In Feb of this year i visited a friend doing her second season and, as expected, she was much faster than me. I then noticed that she had a stance of +16 and -16. So i thought, if it works for her, I'll give it a go. At the top of the next lift I changed my bindings to about +20 and -12.
What a revelation! It was much easier to ride fakie, to originate ollies and spins and to control the board in the air, but that was only to be expected. What amazed me was that fast, hard carving felt more controlled and easier as well.
I was expecting that the stance would feel weird for a while and that i would need a few runs to adjust to it, but no, it felt natural immediately.
With a duck stance it is easier to crouch down and commit to the turn without forcing your back leg into a strange twisting action. It takes a lot of pressure of the back ankle and allows you to go hard and fast for longer.
If you want to go faster, be more comfortable, have more fine control, be smoother when buttering or doing jump switches from normal to fakie and back again, I'd recommend giving it a try.
There endeth the lesson!
I have yet to try it in powder but i cannot see why that should be any different. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Has anyone found the opposite to be true for them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tony Lane, I've only ever had a few days and rode whatever the hire shops had them at. Felt like 0* on the rear, would that be right as a default?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm a real fiddler when it comes to binding settings. When I was learning I tried absolutely everything. Regular, goofy, alpine and duck stances. Was a bit more settled on the last holiday. Was regular, +15, +3 at the start, but I wasn't progressing at quite the rate I thought I should be. Went to +21, +6 and my boarding seemed to become loads better almost immediately. It might just have been the front foot adjustment that did it though, as I didn't adjust the back that much. Might give duck another go when I go away again in April, just to see how it feels now that I can board properly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Felt like 0* on the rear, would that be right as a default? |
This is a common starting position but it is worth making a few experiments to see what feels right for you. There are no rights or wrongs and it really is a case of finding your own best position.
Check out http://www.kommunity.com/advice/faq.php for some good advice
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Very interesting Tony, I havn't thought of trying duck as a I just assumed it was suited for parkers. I ride with a flat back foot (0/5) and front +15/20. I am tempted to give it a try when next at MK.
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Started off learning duck, then went 0 front 0 back for a while, then went front +18 and varied the back from 0 to +5. Now settled -15 front -15 back, feels a lot more stable when taking (very small) jumps, riding fackie, riding flat and fast. It also made me feel a lot more confident riding in knee deep powder the other week as it felt a lot smoother. I find that it's easier to centre your weight in this position, a sort of tennis player postion?
I ride anywhere but in the park! Would love to give it go but never been with people who have tried before.
All in all i'd say try it but whatever works for you/floats you boat is all that matters in the end. It does depend a lot on your body mechanics, so if it does feel uncomfortable, then stop. I'd start at -5 and then work further to find where the balance is. 
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It's all to do with the bio-mechanics of your lower body. Once you’ve got your stance width right for you (start with the distance between the tip of your middle finger and the end of your elbow as the ‘median’ space and go in or out from there), you need to work out how your body bends down to achieve a vertical squat with your back straight, as upright as possible and your head up. Once you’ve made space for yer beer gut you’ll have found your ‘natural’ stance. You can turn the feet to find a more alpine position but most people have the greatest range of movement and balance in a moderate ‘duck’ stance. I run at +25 & -10 most of the time cos one of my knees has an old injury and will only bend in one plane.
You’ll also find that when you stack, you’ll be better able to recover and less chance of knee and twist injuries.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well u guys have convinced me to give it a try at my next available opportunity!!!
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Welcome to the 'Duck' Side!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Simon (Mr T) wrote: |
| Welcome to the 'Duck' Side! |
Groan !!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sorry,could not resist!
I got my bindings as far as 0 on the back leg,fakie was alot easier.-3 or more next.
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I converted to Duck two seasons back. I thought having both feet forward is not a natural well balanced stance so I looked at how I stood normally and saw both feet turn out. I then read an article by Neil McNab which attempted to put some theory to stance widths and angles. Ultimately I find duck more stable and comfortable and I am very free ride orientated. The only time I change it is if it is going to be an epic deep powder day cos leaning back on my dodgy right knee is a little too tiring.
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You know it makes sense.
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It sounds like we've had very similar experiences, ashton. It is interesting what you say about powder days and thinking about it i can see what you mean about how it might be better to revert to having the back knee pointing forward when you are spending a lot of time with more weight on that foot.
Will have to wait until next season now though 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Tony Lane wrote: |
| Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted but this little revelation has brought about the biggest improvement in my riding for several years: |
Me too. I learned this from Neil McNab and friends on a Kommunity camp in 2001 and have never looked back. Like you I had been riding for a about 6 years at the time and I had got myself to a reasonable intermediate level but going duck (and understanding my stance) has made the biggest single improvement to my riding (and yes it works fine in powder too).
I usually steer anyone with a query on stance to McNab's excellent guide but I see someone has already linked to it above.
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Poster: A snowHead
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playdreamer, Welcome to snowHeads 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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18, -9 suits me fine , my mate rides 21, -21, he got the nick name spastic legs (a bit nasty)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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but when free riding i ride 18, 3
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm a duck convert from McNab too, I ride something like 18, -9 (give or take 3 degrees on each foot).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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took me years to convert (coming from an Alpine snowboard, Duck seemed like a joke) and now I regret i wasted all this time. I ride about 15 -12 and it makes a huge difference in control - also much easier on the back knee/ankle!
Try it as soon as you can! (only a few more months before season!) 
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Hi all. I too converted to duck last season with good results; that was using my own gear though. I was in Aus briefly this year and not expecting to board so didn't have my gear with me. The rental guy at Mt Buller refused to set me up in duck stance because he said that there was a greater chance of busting your knee (specifically the ACL I think). Not sure if that is the case but I thought I'd throw it into the conversation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi all. I too converted to duck last season with good results; that was using my own gear though. I was in Aus briefly this year and not expecting to board so didn't have my gear with me. The rental guy at Mt Buller refused to set me up in duck stance because he said that there was a greater chance of busting your knee (specifically the ACL I think). Not sure if that is the case but I thought I'd throw it into the conversation.
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This is an interesting read, I'm going to try this just as soon as the glacier opens again.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just bumping this up again as it may be interesting for newer snowHeads who have not seen it, and may remind those who mentioned that they would try it this season.
If you do try it, let us know how you get on.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I read an article before xmas in a mag (can't remember which) where some medical expert was saying that the duck stance does give a greater risk of knee injury than a regular stance. If I find it again I will paste the column in here.
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Philip, I'd be interested in reading that if you can find it as I've heard similar things said before.
I find that duck stance is more natural and comfortable during normal riding and i would have thought that it puts less strain on your knees and ankles as a result. But I can appreciate that if you stack it and stop suddenly with your momentum carrying you in the direction of the tip of the board, your knee might be pulled sideways whereas with the alpine stance it would just move further forward in its normal line of movement. But that's a fairly limited set of circumstances. Most crashes happen when your centre of gravity moves too far across the board so that you are not falling over the tip of the board.
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You know it makes sense.
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I’ve heard this too, but I’ve never seen a link to the research. I can see some validity if you were riding in full alpine mode where the stresses are not twisting or at a tangent to the direction of travel. But having fallen repeatedly, my worst injuries have always been in ‘normal’ foot angles. Since going duck, the stresses are greatly reduced and I have a much wider range of motion (better chance of recovery in a fall). It does help to have a good range of pelvis/hip flexation.
Best thing anyone can do is find the most comfortable foot stance that gives you the greatest mobility and least stress when riding. You also need to get into a Pilates/yoga class.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've tried both a fair bit, I'm personally just more comfortable in duck than alpine. Much less stress on my knees and lower legs in general, and easier to ride switch. I don't know any technicalities, but it's more comfortable for me. I ride 18/-3 btw.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the last paragraph in the section about duck stance is good advice
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have been riding for three years, started out with a stance of 15,15. Switched to a 0,0, and now ride with a 16,-16 stance. I love it, and I have been converting my friends. My girlfriend has switched and has gone from her legs cramping up alot to being very comfortable on a board. Myself I have found duck to be a very comfotable and versatile stance which I have yet to find a limitation for. With this stance I ride fast, hit jumps of differing sizes, and I work on terrain features.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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prayforsnow247, welcome to snowHeads
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The last 4 times I went out I've been riding 21/-6. I like it even more than 18/-3.
Also, I don't know if there's conculsive evidence that duck is more dangerous. There was I think 1 study showing duck riders having slightly more knee injuries than forward riders, but duck is also generally used more by freestylers (though I freeride and prefer it to a forward stance for freeriding). This increase in injuries could easily be because landing big jumps is harder on your knees than carving down a mountain?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I ride 12 and 21, whic I think is what the guys at Burton recommended when I bought my first pair of bindings many years ago. Never seen any need to change. Works well for me
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Thanks for this tip Tony. I've tried it over the last few days in combination with new riser plates and it has transformed my riding, especially on the icy stuff we have had recently. The duck stance along with the riser plates I can now get a lot more pressure onto the edges. This just wasn't possible before with my forward /alpine stance.
Thanks Again!!! 
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petel, excellent! glad you found it useful
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I rode a +25 and -5 this trip in Alpey D and found it to be most suitable.
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GOING DUCK QUITE SIMPLY IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!!
ANYBODY WHO CAN TELL ME THAT FORWARD STANCE IS MORE COMFORTABLE IS... WELL... WELCOME TO THEIR OPINION, BUT WRONG... IN MY OPINION!
MACNABBS ADVICE IS SPOT ON!!!! STAND IN YOUR FRONT ROOM, BEDROOM OR EVEN BATHROOM IF THAT TAKES YOUR FANCY AND FIND A STANCE THAT IS COMFORTABLE FOR YOU. YOU DONT NEED YOUR BOARD FOR THIS. I BET 9/10 PEOPLE IF THEY WERE BEIN' HONEST AND TRIED THIS TEST WOULD HAVE TO CONCIDE THAT FORWARD STANCE IS ABOUT AS COMFORTABLE AS RIDIN' WITH A CUCUMBER STUCK UP YOUR JACKSY! I.E. NOT VERY.
ANYWAY THATS IT FROM ME.
p.s. found this website yesterday, and was well pleased because it makes the day at work go so much faster!
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FAQ
Unless that is, the summer trip to Chile comes off 
