 Poster: A snowHead
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Dot.,
Be sure to check the speed rating of the remould. Many moons ago when I was new to driving and cars/tyres etc I had a remoulded rear tyre blow out on my car while on a motorway (doing around 70 mph maybe a little more). The car suddenly inherited the handling chracteristics of a Tesco shopping trolley. It was a fight to keep the car away from the barriers and off it's roof. Thankfully it was early morning and no other cars were around otherwise my ignorance could have injured someone. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I used remoulds on my Landy, INSA Turbos - a copy of BFGs really. They needed 400g of weight for the tyre shop t balance them. Ok for a 40 mph landy but I switched to proper tyres fairly quickly.
For a car I am a fan of all season tyres. In the summer they work well. You would need to be on a track to notice the difference in grip between them and a summer tyre in the dry. Wet grip isn't quite as good but a marginal difference.
In the winter though I can't tell any difference between full winter tyres and mountain marked all season tyres. I haven't had to use snow chains in 4 years with either, driving up and down to Val Thorens lots and lots. The Vredesteins I got a few weeks ago have been superb on packed snow/ice.
I just use all season tyres al year round.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dot. wrote: |
skitow, Thanks for that. Don't retreads have to meet the same standards are manufactured tyres?
I've had retreads in the past (Colways on a modified jeep) but never on a car. |
Yes they are and the company we get ours from are supposed to be bringing out this soon :-
For Sport-Orientated Vehicles.. The Virager Provides Enhanced Driving Sensations, Better Road-Holding, More Driving Pleasure And Outstanding Energy Efficiency Offering The Motorist An Economical And Environmentally Friendly Option.
I would still need some persuading to put them on my car to be honest.
To go back to trucks as an example, there was a recent "discussion" in a trade magazine where a tyre manufacturer said there is no reason why you cannot put a retreaded tyre on the front steer axle of a truck for the same reason, it should be as good as a new one. Several managers of large fleet managers basically then said "hear what you are saying but no, never retreads on the steer axle". There is an ingrained suspicion because there have been problems in the past I am afraid and I would not do it either. Having said that the only front tyre blowout I ever had on a truck was on a 4 year old "new" tyre, terrifying experience 
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tyremen, I've got a query you may be able to help me with. My wife's Audi A1 car has 215 40 R17 summer tyres and I'm wanting to fit winter tyres, have had Avon Ice Touring ST in the past and really rate them but can't find them anywhere, do you sell them, if so want to give me a quote for 4, could slide over to Hull for fitting too if you into that or delivery to me and I'll get shod locally.
Also I've heard that I can step up to a 45 rather than 40 in order to assist with the on/ offs twice yearly, would this be OK. I've found some Falken tyres on my tyres.com which are £10 a corner in 45 vs 40 and at £88 a corner delivered look good?
Would appreciate your advice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi all,
Apologies for my absence, the threat of snow in the UK has meant that we have gone insanely busy with all winter related product and I must admit I'm struggling to keep track of forum threads. If anyone needs any specific advice please either PM me or get in touch; info@tyremen.co.uk or 08456 807 808 and please make sure you mention snowheads and I'll look after you as best as I can.
Phill.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well what a waste of money they were this winter 
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Not in Tignes!
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Or Arabba.
Snowplough attachment would have been handy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andy, didn't engch have one of those 
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yup
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've been glad of mine quite a bit this winter, not just in Arabba!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Not in Tignes! |
Still got my summer tyres on 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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My summer tyres were shot, so we put my winters on in November, they are close to the winter limit (4mm????) so the tyre place told me to keep them on until they run to 2mm...
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Poster: A snowHead
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I was glad of mine quite a few times, they are coming off tomorrow, I'm going to get a proper jack and do them myself. Can't speak highly enough of tyremen.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[Geek Alert on]
Dedicated to Rob@RAR 
Last year I did an analysis of the data published by Cambridge University for their weather station. I can't be bothered to look for the thread but I've just updated the analysis to 31st March 2014
Cambridge has a generally mild climate - certainly in comparison with places oop North, a la FTS et al. The weather station is on the roof of one of the University buildings so I presume its readings will be affected slightly by the semi-urban setting (ie higher temps than properly rural spots) but I claim no expertise. The temperatures recorded will also therefore be 'air' temps which are generally higher than ground temps which are more relevant to discussions on the suitability of winter tyres.
We all now know that winter tyres are reckoned to be appropriate when 'temperatures are 7C or lower' (which I presume is ground temp, not air temp) so I looked at the occasions when the (air) temp was < 7.1C at typical commuting times (for me, anyway) of 7.30am and 6pm
A quick look at the period 1/11/13 - 31/3/14 (150 days) reveals the following:
Over the past 18 years (the period for which data is available), the 7.30am temp has been < 0C on an average of 18 days during the 150 day period in question (the max was 40 in 12/13). In the 13/14 period, the temp was < 0C on only 5 occasions so, by comparison, the winter of 13/14 was a mild one - as we all know.
Of more relevance, in that same 150 day period in 13/14, the temperature at 7.30am was < 7.1C on 110 occasions - so on 73% of days, winter tyres would be appropriate. It was also < 7.1C on 77 occasions at 6pm (so even that's > 50% of the time!). As ground temps will have been lower than those recorded by the weather station, these percentages will be on the low side.
It would appear that, even in the relatively benign climate of central Southern England, in a 'mild' winter with virtually no snow and no frosts, winter tyres are still more appropriate than 'summer' tyres. If you add in the winter tyres' claimed superiority in heavy rain and resistance to aquaplaning, the advantages become all the greater. And 13/14 was certainly a wet winter across almost the whole country.
Unlike in previous winters (notably 12/13) when I drove around in sub-zero temps with snow & frost all around, feeling smug at my choice of the correct tyres for the conditions, there were times during this last winter when I wondered whether the winter tyres were doing me any good - I need not have doubted my wisdom - but there were plenty of occasions as I splashed my way through deep, standing water on busy motorway that I was glad of my 'appropriate' rubber. However, if I were a Yorkshireman....... 
[Geek Alert off]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jbob, I don't think that Red Leon, was talking about
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40deg at that time of year
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what he was talking about was the number of days:
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the 7.30am temp has been < 0C on an average of 18 days during the 150 day period in question (the max was 40 in 12/13
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ie 40 days in 12/13, - rather more than the average of 18 days.
Not sue what I am doing in here - better get back to cleaning windows!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Pamski, thanks, that makes more sense,  I'll get back to sorting out my car after getting home last night. One job is to take off the winter tyres. Now where can I get a bit of copper slip? One thing I really noticed this year was the improved braking winter tyres gave me. Also one night coming down a hill on a sheet of ice while there was chaos all round they just chugged through.
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Red leon,
Good analysis. Although it is being regarded as a mild winter with little frost, nor has it ever been warm.
I don't think we had any days up here bewteen December and March where the temperature exceeded 10C, which is remarkable.
This is why the Scottish mountains and the Lake District have been buried in snow this winter....and still are in places 
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Interesting thread... clarification on one point:
M&S = Mud & Snow tyres (mountain symbol) - this is primarily to do with the tread being able to disperse mud / snow - not necessarily to do with winter tyres which are about temperature related rubber compounds (i.e. normal tyres have rubber compounds that can stiffen below 7deg C - winter tyres stay more flexible) M&S could be winter tyres or not - the two are not necessarily directly related but could be! both have advantages for snow conditions...
to quote from the Pirelli website
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| Winter tyres, also called snow, cold weather or thermal tyres, and identified by the branding M+S (Mud&Snow) on the side of the tyres together with the drawing of a mountain with a snowflake. Legally the M+S marking alone is sufficient to identify a winter tyre, but the tyre industry has adopted the snowflake marking to differentiate real winter tyres (M+S and snowflake) from all-season tyres (only M+S). |
more from them about winter tyres here: http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/gb/en/car/genericContent/winter_collection
Ideally you should be looking for tread pattern as well as compound...
the compound helps the rubber flex - allowing it to keep more in contact with the road / firm substrate of packed snow
the tread though allows you to disperse snow / mud to keep in contact with the road / firm substrate of packed snow
with either - if the snow packs into the tread you basically get the equivalent of a bald tyre making contact / grip very difficult...
both are helpful - but ultimately - cautious and appropriate driving is equally important!
the advantages of winter tyres (better grip) do allow shorter stopping distances than summer tyres - but both will be hugely reduced on snow anyway, so a careful driver going slower will still be able to stop with either - driving skill may still be the significant difference!
I have taken a range rover on pirelli scorpions (M&S but not winter tyres) over a grouse moor in 3 foot of powder snow with no issues at all - and used it a couple of years ago to clear a local town, including towing a 5+ tonne lorry up a very steep hill in fresh snow - no issues at all with grip - on that same hill cars with winter tyres / snow socks were sliding all the way back down... in that case the snow dispersion of the tread and the low ratio gear box (and sub 1mph progress!) was more important than the rubber compound - in other instances it might be the opposite priorities...
The biggest issue though is drivers who assume that putting winter tyres on is a total fix for snowy conditions (rather like the 4x4 drivers who assume the same and then learn that they can't stop!) 
The Kuga I now have drives very well in British snow (bearing in mind that normal use on the couple of days a year we have it is to drive 5-10 miles on flat roads) without winter tyres - for me it is not worth the cost - it also coped in the alps in a foot and a half of snow without chains (I had them in the car but it was fine), so for me I am yet to see a reason to get winter tyres - the cost and storage is an issue... but I do understand those who do - just worth thinking of the bigger picture which is more than just the rubber compound...
Alasdair
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Not sue what I am doing in here - better get back to cleaning windows!
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 Yes, having popped in briefly, I think I'll go and make myself some toast. Winter tyres still on as I'm still in the Alps - they'll be coming off towards the end of the month.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| akirk wrote: |
Interesting thread... clarification on one point:
M&S = Mud & Snow tyres (mountain symbol)... |
Hold it right there!
The "M+S" symbol and the "Mountain and Snowflake" symbols are completely different and mean different things.
All is explained in this document from the Rubber Manufacturers Association of North America.
"M+S" just means it has a blocky tread pattern:
1. New Tire treads shall have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that meet the following requirements based on mold dimensions:
-a. Extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge, measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline.
-b. A mimimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch.
-c. Edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel.
2. The new tire tread contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25% based on mold dimensions.
The "Mountain and Snowflake" pictogram means the design has been tested and performs better in snowy conditions:
"Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using ASTM F-1805, 2006 snow traction test with medium packed snow surface and equivalent percentage loads 3 . Other test methods and reference tires developed by standardizing bodies may be used provided proper correlations are demonstrated."
One word of caution: AFAIK, there is no legal basis for use of the "M+S" symbol. It is just custom and practice and manufacturers don't always abide. I have some far-eastern tyres on my van that are marked M+S but clearly do not satisfy the requirements above. Strange then that they are legal winter-wear in Germany simply because of these markings!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 5-04-14 13:03; edited 1 time in total
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altis, I don't think we are disagreeing - my point was that M&S is not the same as mountain and snowflake - however they are very often sold as just mountain (no snowflake!)
As I said - M&S is about tread and dispersion of mud / snow - Winter tyres are about rubber compound...
The actual effectiveness of a tyre will vary from car to car and tyre to tryre...
There is little standard about what markings mean...
The reason for my clarification was that in places in the thread there seems to be an assumption that M&S = winter tyre and my point was that it does not - it means mud & snow and is about tread not compound
Alasdair
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Winter tyres are forbidden in Italy during the summer. Source Austrian news on breakfast TV.
They also said it was illegal for a man to wear a skirt in Italy but I'm not sure if they are trying to keep out Conchita Wurst and/or Boris
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DB, they'll never take me alive!
Cacciatore, OUCH - we still have our winter tyres on from Oct 12 and I'm hoping they will do us the summer before I replace them Autumn time. I've been running some All Season tyres (with Mountain and Snowflake) symbol for last few months on my car and will put similar on the Disco as I've been pleased with them
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You know it makes sense.
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Boris, well I've done 20k miles on them and they weren't new when I bought the car. If it hadn't been for a bulge on the inside tyre wall, they might have been good for another 4-5k.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue, the Nokians I had on my last car were as hard wearing as normal tyres, plus I used them through a summer with no issues. I'll be putting the coni winter contacts back on my new car this winter also a great tyre, too early to comment on durability.
PS if you are anywhere near tyreman in Hull I would highly recommend him, they really do know their stuff, even put some copper slip on the studs and put the summer tyres in some nice bags.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Samerberg Sue, I've been running the Nokians for a couple of years now with no problems. I put them on in nov/dec and take them off far too late cos I always forget (april/may  ). Still going strong.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue, I found the Nokians very good in the wet and exceptional in slush.
I rationalise the price by factoring in the possible cost of crashing the car!
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I have had Nokian WR G2 tyres on my Subaru for 3 years and they still have 6mm of tread left after about 12,000 miles. They are the V model for higher speeds but you can get them to slide a bit on bends in the summer if you push it. I've had no problem getting up and down the road to Zauch when covered in snow and slush.
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Scarpa, The ones I ordered are WR D3 so not sure if that is what you have. I have the T rated ones (up to 190km/h) which is fine as the Caddy can only squeeze out 180 downhill with ice and a following wind!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Gosh, is it that time of year already? so glad I did all my agonizing last year when I was forced to buy a new car. This year, all I have to do is get the Continentals off the shelf and have them switched over.
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FAQ
