 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's snowing in Zermatt. Has been coming down since about 4PM. At 5:30 it was really dumping in the village. An another note, noticed quite a few natural slides on South and west facing slopes. Didn't seem to bother the Swiss mtn goats though. Watched one as we were riding the Gorngrat tram plowing through the pow. I guess they don't read the avy reports!
Local Zermatt website seems to call for mild temps in Zermatt itself but seems to call for snow up high with brief spots of sun. No idea about accumulation amounts.  I guess I will find out Sunday morning. I hope it's an early Christmas present.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's some excerpts from this evening's SLF (covering Switzerland).
"On Saturday night in western regions below approximately 2000 m and in eastern regions below approximately 1600 m, rainfall will cause the snow cover to become thoroughly wet, thereby weakening it. In the major regions of precipitation, more frequent occurrences of wet avalanches and full depth snowslides can be expected."
"Weather forecast until Sunday
... Snowfall level in western and northern regions at 1800 to 2200 m, in southern and eastern regions at 1500 to 1800m. During the day it will turn sunny.
Fresh snow
During the night above approximately 2200 m, the following amounts of snowfall are anticipated:
- Bernese Oberland, central and eastern sectors of northern flank of the Alps, northern Valais, Gotthard region, northern Grisons, northern Lower Engadine, 20 to 40 cm
- Remaining regions, 10 to 20 cm; towards the west and south, snowfall amounts will be less
Wind
In northern regions, strong to storm strength..."
"Monday
Very mild, accompanied by moderate to strong velocity foehn winds. The danger of dry avalanches will slowly subside."
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For a quick on-the-ground report, last night's forecast warm temperatures and heavy rain to high altitude did NOT happen, in the Tarentaise at least. It was snowing very heavily at 800m at about 8pm, freezing level did then rise rapidly, but only as the precipitation petered out. An absolute minimum of rainfall at 1550m here.
Pretty pleased with that, forecast had me pretty worried!
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stevomcd, ditto for Les Arcs, but it is very mild today (6 degrees at the moment at 1800m) so there's a definite thaw going on.
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Fair bit of rain overnight in Chatel so it seems the north got the worst of it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I wish that was the same for the Jungfrau Region. It rained below 2000m overnight with 15cm of new snow above 2360cm.
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Am I right in thinking that a bit of freeze-thaw will stabilize the snow pack?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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red 27, on the other hand rain crust can cause instability. So it depends.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nozawaonsen, Bad choice of words on my part, I meant improve / solidify the base - rather than reduce the avalanche risk
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is it at all normal for temps to be hitting near double digits @ 1600m late dec? seems rather weird to me.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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xander89, just to clarify things for you. The current weather in the Alps is not freak weather. It's mild weather. And a period of mild weather is relatively common in the Alps. Indeed mild weather at Christmas actually has it's own singularity named for the period, Weihnachtstauwetter.
This current weather doesn't have any real impact on how the weather will be in January and certainly not beyond. It will have an impact on the snowpack (all weather does), but I doubt that will be an issue for you.
I'd stop worrying if I were you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| red 27 wrote: |
| nozawaonsen, Bad choice of words on my part, I meant improve / solidify the base - rather than reduce the avalanche risk |
If you think it would improve or solidify the base (snowpack) then you would I imagine expect it to reduce the avalanche risk.
Conversely if it produced a rain crust which subsequently got snow on top you would have a potential source of instability in the snowpack. This would increase the avalanche risk.
So the question is whether the mild weather and rain left a rain crust before any subsequent snow fell on it. This will be very location specific. You'd need to judge from local observations. And of course above 2000m you had snow and strong winds which will have done very little to stabilise the snowpack or reduce the avalanche risk.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well it's 7C in Zermatt right now. Schwarzsee never opened. High winds of about 75kmh, and temp above 0C. Pistes were crazy busy, expecially since half the lifts were not operating. That warm Foehn wind really has the oft piste in a not so good situation. Just as long as the precip stays away till things cool off again. Looks like another warm day in store tomorrow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's definitely peculiarly warm out there at the moment. I think the snow has survived remarkably well though, even down to very low altitudes. On piste, at least...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Certainly been a snowy start to the season for the northern Alps, but Mount Baker in Washington State has really gone off...
113 inches or 2.87m in the last 8 days...
Closed yesterday as they tried to clear over 175 fallen trees blocking the access routes. But open today. They suggest you should carry chains if you are driving up...
Picture from the Bellingham Herald.
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Stevomcd -it did rain in the tarentaise last night.
I'm in Tignes Val Claret and the initial dump of fresh powder from 5 pm onwards turned to rain by about 130am and was still going circa 3am. I've been down to albertvile today (through Saint Foy ) and the roads and trees show the effect of that plus the temps. 3c in Val Claret at 8pm tonight... 
Last few runs down into the village are icy although up higher is still great and it's deep all over. My 8 yr old boy fell on the ice and slid down a long way before hitting a barrier near the grand Motte funicular - hence the trip to Albertville as he was helicoptered there. He's ok but they are keeping him in for one more night for observation. His mum is with him.
Ho hum
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Jiggs62, welcome to snowheads.  Sad that your first post is about a helicopter ride for your boy. Hope he's OK.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A marked inversion tonight. It was 1 degree down in Praz sur Arly (about 1100 metres I think) and 5 degrees up at 1650. Extraordinarily mild, starry, night. It rained very little last night, thankfully, but everything is dripping now, and probably has been all day. The road outside has 6 - 8 inches of slush on. I've been to Geneva so I don't know what the snow's like on piste.
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Jiggs62, hope he makes a speedy recovery! The helicopter story will be a good one to tell his pals!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Here's SLF's thoughts on the snowpack this evening, click the link to read the full report.
Considerable avalanche danger will be encountered over a wide area
"Snowpack
As a result of the rain and markedly higher temperatures, the snow cover was made thoroughly wet, and thereby weakened. Numerous medium sized and some large sized naturally triggered wet avalanches and full depth snowslides released in all aspects below about 2400 m.
In addition, the strong to storm strength winds brought about wide ranging snow drift accumulations. They can be easily triggered or even trigger naturally..."
"Fresh snow
The snowfall level in western regions was between 1900 and 2200 m. In southern and eastern regions it was at 1400 to 1600 m to begin with, then just before the precipitation came to an end ascended towards 2000 m.
Above approximately 2200 m... new fallen snow... widespread 20 to 40 cm"
There looks like being a strong Foehn tomorrow and Christmas Day.
http://www.meteocentrale.ch/en/weather/foehn-and-bise/foehn.html
But over night and into Boxing Day temperatures will fall and snowfall will set in. And again on 27 December. Temperatures rising once again on the 29 and 30 December.
Here's an idea of the where the snow will be focussed over the next week.
Once again the same areas look like getting the most snow in an arc stretching across the northern Alps from the Tarentaise to the Arlberg (edit: and this morning pushing all the way through to the Dachstein).
Some snow in Scotland during the week before there too temperatures rise sharply on the 29 December for a day or two. And no real relief for the Pyrenees where again the year looks like drawing to an end with some very above average temperatures.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 25-12-12 17:43; edited 7 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jiggs62, definitely didn't rain (much) down here, I was out and about at around 1:30am last night and it was dry as a bone. It stopped precipitating here about 9/10pm. May well have lingered on for a few hours longer up in Tignes. Mild as hell though!
Sainte Foy town is not the same as Sainte Foy resort (nearly 600m altitude difference!), I'm sure it would have rained for a while down there.
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Here's LWD Tirol's view this morning.
http://lawine.tirol.gv.at/en/
"Avalanche Danger
In Tirol’s backcountry touring regions, predominantly unfavourable conditions prevail, accompanied by considerable avalanche danger. Above approximately 2000 m, freshly formed snow drift accumulations require special caution above all else. They are prone to triggering and can release even by minimum additional loading, i.e. the weight of a single backcountry skier or freerider. Avalanche prone locations are to be found on steep slopes in all aspects as well as near ridge lines in general. As a result of the wetness of the snowpack, naturally triggered wet snow avalanches and full depth snowslides can be expected below about 2400 m which in isolated cases can reach large size and endanger exposd transportation routes.
Snow Layering
The snow cover at low and intermediate altitudes is thoroughly wet, by and large, as a result of the rainfall and the springlike temperatures. In high alpine regions, the most recent bout of snowfall has been massively transported by storm strength westerly to northwesterly winds. New, extremely trigger sensitive snow drift masses have been the result. In addition, the fundament of the snowpack above approximately 2200 m on shady slopes consists mainly of faceted, unbonded snow crystals. Thus, avalanches which are triggered can break through down to the lowermost layers and thereby attain larger size."
So some pretty tricky and treacherous conditions out there.
Very mild today. LWD Tirol reckoning freezing level at 3300m by midday.
It will however cool down from Christmas day with more snow arriving Late Tuesday and Wednesday and heavier still in the French Alps on Thursday into Friday with much reduced freezing levels!
29/30 December then warmer again, possibly quite sunny (would feel very spring like). New Year's eve currently quite a bit cooler, but still looking sunny.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Welcome to the Time Travel Thread! It seems we have gone from brilliant early season conditions to lovely spring skiing in just a few day! It didn't get lower than +6 degrees overnight in Les Arcs. Will be nice to have a hot chocolate on the terrace when we stop this morning, enjoying the blue sky and mild temperatures!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
39 year old ski tourer in a party of three killed in an avalanche on Gamidaurspitz in St. Gallen yesterday. He was carried 500m and found buried under 2m of snow, but declared dead at hospital.
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I am no expert on such things but it always surprises me when experienced skiers have such a tragic accident. The warning signs are everywhere, I guess they have been OK the last 20 times so think they will be OK this time, sad news 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FI in GFS world is looking above average temps going into Jan, do other models concur, or all still up in the air??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kitenski, I've seen that in FI too. Nothing worse than freeze-thaw in Jan !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| FI in GFS world is looking above average temps going into Jan, do other models concur, or all still up in the air?? |
I suppose it depends where in the Alps your looking at. For the Eastern Alps it looks like being slightly above average for a few days but still not as warm as today for example. Anything past the 3rd January I wouldn't even take much notice of at this stage. Lots of snow forecast for parts of the French Alps (again!!) in the next few days so not sure why anyone is worried about slightly higher temperatures in early January.
If I was going to the pyrenees then yes I might be worried. Far higher than average temperatures currently though this will fall in the next day. But very little snow forecast in the next week.
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kitenski, FI for the 06z GFS produced a whole range of possibilities.
Looking at the operational and control (which didn't have a whole lot of support). Bit milder than average around the 4/5 Jan and a bit cooler than average around the 06/07 Jan which would average out to be er average. At it's mildest you would briefly have the snow line up to 1800m in the west or 1500m in the east. But not for long and in any case it's FI.
As for ECM that only runs out to 03 Jan which is currently cold in the Alps.
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Thanks all for the thoughts re my boy - spot on re the helicopter ride, he already can't wait to see his mates to tell them about it. He's back in Tignes, now but unlikely to be skiing all week - unfortunate given the beautiful bluebird conditions today.
Pam W - first post perhaps but long time lurker 
Stevo - understood re St Foy. It was raining quite hard here at 130 am onwards (I was also out and about) but even so certainly wasn't the torrential downpour initially envisaged. My balcony went from circa 2 ft of snow to 6 inches overnight...
Fingers crossed for everyone for the rest of the week/season.
Bonne Fete
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| mheadbee wrote: |
| Quote: |
39 year old ski tourer in a party of three killed in an avalanche on Gamidaurspitz in St. Gallen yesterday. He was carried 500m and found buried under 2m of snow, but declared dead at hospital.
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I am no expert on such things but it always surprises me when experienced skiers have such a tragic accident. The warning signs are everywhere, I guess they have been OK the last 20 times so think they will be OK this time, sad news |
How many experienced drivers died today in the alpine states? Some skiers take risk some just unlucky, some get educated on off piste risk, take guides, take precautions and still get unlucky. No details on the circumstances of the above incident so can't really past judgement.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Happy Christmas all. 
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Happy Christmas nozawaonsen, happy Christmas all.
Very warm here in the Dolomites today and yesterday, but slopes held up very well. Saw my first avalanche yesterday, thankfully a very long way from where skiers would be, but still pretty spectacular. Today we saw a helicopter sweep off near the Marmolada mid afternoon then a few mins later heard some pretty loud bangs.
Forecast is for cooler temps tomorrow for the rest of the week and some snow tomorrow night
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FAQ
, hehehe
