 Poster: A snowHead
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Nice analogy!
IMO it's up to an individual what they do but I would choose to take an expert's opinion over what is safe (open) or not, much like it is wise to listen to an expert re what off piste is safe. We trust pisteurs in deeming when pistes are safe after a snow fall, why would you not trust a pisteur when they say a piste isn't safe. I also think it is a bit selfish ignoring closed piste signs, as mentioned before there could be many reasons why things are closed and you could be spoiling things for other skiers/boarders in the future. The subject of whether your insurance covers you if a piste is closed is a daft one, it's not much good for you if you are killed in an avalanche or because you've hit an obstacle you couldn't see.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| beeryletcher wrote: |
| Let's suppose we are going to cross a train track at a crossing and the barrier is closed and lights and bells are ringing. Some people might think that they can make their own decision if it is safe or not. After all they could be somewhere where there is no barrier and have to make the decision anyway, so it is clearly all the same thing. NOT ! Someone has been kind enough to tell you there is a train coming ! |
fair enough, but there you can take it pretty much as a given that a train is coming, and a piste closure sign by itself doesn't necessarily mean that an avalanche or piste basher or other significant hazard is imminent. Part of assessing the risk is thinking about the conditions in the round to take an educated guess about what may be waiting for you on the other side of the barrier. You don't have to think about that if a level crossing is down, because you know it means the train is definitely coming!
Whether most people (myself included) have enough knowledge to make that call is a different question, but it's the same as skiing offpiste without a guide (and even the experts can only do so much to mitigate your risk).
Very sad news for all involved in the incident at VdI, anyway. When the snow has been poor and runs not open it's definitely tempting to have at it as soon as the cover seems sufficient.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Johnnyseven, it's certainly not pointless to question whether your insurance covers you on a closed piste. If you fall and twist your knee or bash your head it could cost you a great deal of money.
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You're quite right, but I was mostly referring to closed/off piste discussion about risk of avalanche - insurance won't do you much good if you're killed by one. Personally I prefer to minimise the risk of that happening. But as I said, it's up to the individual to decide what risk they're willing to take.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Even if you're dead your family might be glad not to be presented with a bill for search and rescue. And what about repatriating your corpse?
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@dogwatch, I'm not disagreeing with santons, just the statements that saying you should NEVER ski a closed piste.
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.... OK back to todays update now.......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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....woops forgot... not that I am in any way that interested but know that some readers here may be.... look who was at Le Folie Douce yesterday afternoon:
Photo courtesy of Le Folie Douce
Louis Tomlinson (on the right as we look) (apparently) from One Direction!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We watched your struggles today on Periscope and I think Clare had the best option this afternoon!
Our daughter is now asking why did we go to Val d'Isere 3 weeks ago and not this week,because she could have meet Louis
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Steveee, ha, he didn't mention that. Hopefully this snow continues and we'll have a powder day or two!
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| dogwatch wrote: |
Santons would always be open if skiable and safe because it's one of the major runs down to the centre of the town. It follows a steep gully under obvious potential avalanche risk from the slopes on either side, which is why it's normally closed after snowfall. Sorry but anyone with a bit of mountain sense who has skied it or seen it could tell that. |
I think the avalanche risk above Santons is obvious as well, however I have been surprised on a number of occasions when skiing with various people who have considerable experience of skiing off piste with guides, some of those people have questioned why it was closed.
Simply skiing off piste with guides in itself does not usually include any teaching of mountain craft, nor is it intended to and I do wonder however if that can create a problem. People can spend time off piste with a guide and not appreciate why the guide is making the choices that he or she does. They then go off on their own and look at something like the terrain to the side of Santons and think well, that looks just like the slope we skied with the guide yesterday/ this morning etc. not realising how different it can be.
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You know it makes sense.
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An interesting point. Such mountain sense as I hope I have got has come more from winter climbing and hillwalking than from skiing. I'm frequently gob-smacked by the sight of ski tracks under overhanging cornices that climbers would keep well away from.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The forecast looks incredible, we are ready to drop everything and fly out for a sneaky 4 days ... but when ?? !!! - the long range forecast predicts snow all next week until at least Sunday 17th. When it stops snowing, the clouds clear and the sun comes out there is going to be some incredible skiing !! - what has happened to La Perdrix Blanche ? - when we over last March we were told it was closing ??
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tried the Fondue factory for a late lunch today. Won't be returning. Service terrible. Total case of style over substance. After 45 minutes from arrival we were still waiting for food, the beer the boys chose was not available as they had to change the barrel. The alternative they chose as also then reported as unavailable cos the barrel needed changing.
No apology volunteered for late arrival of food. Apparently there was just one chef on duty. No offer of a free drink. Couldn't rustle up 2 salads and a tartiflette in the time I was there. After I walked out, leaving my 2 companions (Mr P and,his mate J), their salads and my tartiflette did appear. The declined to pay for mine given the delay (granted I was not in the best of moods as I have a head full of cold). The waitress was overheard discussing our apparent unreasonableness with other diners as Mr P and J left.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Steve Angus, I agree it's plush, but I think that's where the good starts and stops.
Are they extending the Savoie above the FF?
@Perty, I'm with you, I had a very similar experience (twice, I was stupid enough to go back), can't bothered to repeat it all, but frankly how they've spent so much on a great fit out and then failed to hire decent (and enough) staff astounds me.
I for one will miss the Perdix Blanche.
More snow here today though, so it's not all bad, although the vis looked awful this afternoon (didn't go up)
As an aside, I've noticed less Russians in their Bognor gear this year, but a lot more Aussies and South Africans.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Grizzle Olivia, Lol. It's nice to know we're not the only ones, we're having the terrible two's at nineteen months. You cracked me up with the start the 'evening jobs', routine to the extreme, it's exactly like that here. The snow just sounds epic. After a two year gap can't wait to get out. Lucky Val starts 1850. Looked at other resorts and places like Flaine and Morzine are fine on the upper slopes but at village level they're at 10 and 20 cm. Really enjoying the periscopes.
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Steve , Pam or any other knowledgeable snowheads what is the benefit of Carte Neige or avec assurance , i've never really known . Like most people I have my own winter sports insurance inc offpiste , but every time i buy a ski pass I am confused by what extra benefits i would get with carte neige , some times i buy it some times i dont , i had assumed that by showing the CN the medical team dont need any payment but last year in Vallandry one of our lads broke his leg and got stretchered off the piste and then in an ambulance to the medical centre his Dad showed them the Carte Neige but he still had to pay everything on his card and claim back in the UK . So what benefits did he get from CN
Also if an accident happens on the slopes how do you know who to phone , where do you find the emergency number .
I suppose after 30 years of 2-3 trips each year i should know but hey im just a tourist
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@gwatts10, have a look here:
http://www.natives.co.uk/holiday/the-lowdown-on-carte-neige-insurance/3994
Basically it's an add on insurance. Pasted below is summary of what they say.
| Quote: |
What it covers:
Carte Neige covers you for transport off the mountain, either on or off piste. If you show your card to the pisteurs they will take the policy number and their costs will be met by the insurance – you have no further involvement.
They then drop you off at the doctor’s surgery in resort. At this point, your Carte Neige is of no help to you at all. Carte Neige is not a full insurance policy – it’s a top-up cover designed to act in tandem with your state or private health insurance. It will reimburse only those costs not covered by your main insurance. |
There are requirements to complete and send the forms in quickly though. But let's hope you don't need it.
When a friend was rescued to Val d'Isere they impounded his hire skis until rescue fee was paid, i.e. no Carte Neige. As we were based in Tigne this was a real pain. Also he was taken off the mountain by helicopter, very costly
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 10-01-16 13:57; edited 1 time in total
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Hi, re Carte Niege, from experience, my brother in law tore his calf muscle on a red run, I skied down to the pisteur station to get help, leaving him with sister in law, he was taken off the mountain by pisteur by sledge to first aid station, as he didn't have the Carte Niege, they kept his skis till one of us returned with the rescue fee, which was around 300 euro, plus another 200 euro for ambulance to medical station. As above the very nice lady pisteur who towed the sledge to get him off the mountain explained that if his lift pass had the Carte Niege on it, they would have scanned it and we would not have paid a penny, think it works out at just over 2 euro per day. Since then we always add it to our lift pass. We do have travel insurance that covers skiing, but usually you end up paying out and claiming later, think what we would have had to pay if a helicopter was needed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Do all resorts offer this? And as for buying a ski pass through your tour op - how can one get Carte Niege on this?
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@Minion1980, Yes, all French resorts do, not sure about other countries. You can get it from where you buy ski passes in the resort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Minion1980, Take your passes to the ticket office and buy it as an add-on. Keep the receipt with your pass.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just remembered @SteveAngus posted Val d'Isere recovery costs on page 84 of this thread.
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@Minion1980, 16.80 euro in the EK last week, well worth it.
Tip. Take a small plastic bag to keep your receipt in, they shred pretty quick when wet and put it in the pocket with your lift pass.
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You know it makes sense.
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| thecramps wrote: |
@Minion1980, 16.80 euro in the EK last week, well worth it.
Tip. Take a small plastic bag to keep your receipt in, they shred pretty quick when wet and put it in the pocket with your lift pass. |
Is it not linked to your lift pass? I (stupidly by the sounds of it) thought it was. Never kept a reciept that's for sure.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
What it covers:
Carte Neige covers you for transport off the mountain, either on or off piste. If you show your card to the pisteurs they will take the policy number and their costs will be met by the insurance – you have no further involvement.
They then drop you off at the doctor’s surgery in resort. At this point, your Carte Neige is of no help to you at all. Carte Neige is not a full insurance policy – it’s a top-up cover designed to act in tandem with your state or private health insurance. It will reimburse only those costs not covered by your main insurance. |
That's not strictly accurate. There are different kinds of policy. The policy you buy on a daily basis with your lift pass is Carre Neige, and (I think) acts like a top up policy for piste/off-piste rescue. Carte Neige is a separate annual policy, and can be bought at different levels of cover (basic, medium and competitor IIRC) and can include medical cover and repatriation to your home address if necessary.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@trainee snowboard jedi, yeah it's on the lift pass, but it's not easy for pisteurs to check that when they are debating whether to get the heli out or pop your broken body on a sledge. They do tell you to keep the receipt when you buy it though, and others on SH have said before you should keep the receipt, so probably for the best.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for the answers everybody that's really useful, my next trip is to Les Arcs and I have already paid for the pass through my tour operator so I will need to pay a visit to the lift pass office and get that added, it is indeed very worth it from the sounds of things.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A word of warning - keeping the little piece of paper is crucial.
Two years ago while while with his private lessons my 10 year old was stretchered off the slopes near Val Claret, taken to the medics in Le Lac and then brought back in an ambulance to the helipad in VC and then helicoptered with his mum and two doctors to the Olympic hospital in Albertville ( brilliant place/ people) where he spent the next few days.
He was fine - just some bad bruising and even got back on his skis 4 days later, but they had been worried about internal injuries.
Once I had got back from Albertville, having made sure he was ok, I went to the pisteurs to collect his skis only to be presented with a bill for several thousand euros to be settled before I go the skis back. I confidently proffered the ski pass which we had bought avec assurance, foolishly thinking they would swipe it and be able to see that the insurance cover was on there.... No chance. Does Monsieur have the little (tiny little square) piece of paper that comes out of the the machine after the pass? Errmmm, not on me no. Then please be so kind as to settle the bill in full please....
I went back to the Apartment for a good search (without much hope) as I usually just instantly bin all receipts and random bits of paper that I find in my pockets.
Fortunately, Mrs Jiggs (being a lawyer) had snatched all the receipts and kept them safe.
I could swear the pisteur's faces fell when I sashayed back in and triumphantly presented the little (teeny weeny) square receipt, but they then grumpily handed over the skis and announced everything was immediately settled. Do not lose the receipt is the bottom line.
This form of insurance is the only one that will instantly settle the pisteur's stretcher/ambulance/ helicopter/ accompanying doctor's costs - everything else involves you getting in touch with your insurance company who will sometimes do it quickly and in other cases take some time to settle which can present you with issues re the hired or own ski gear. I will always use it (and keep the minuscule bit of paper...).
In addition the E111 or whatever it is also needs to be checked - I had assumed that once you had one then it was a bit like a National Insurance number - it was yours for life. Nope, they have an expiry date - this cost me circa eur 1000 at the hospital as ours was out of date (bloody lawyers- you give them one job to do ...  ). I did get it back later via the eurotunnel winter insurance (which was very easy to claim) but I had to pay on the spot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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brilliant answers everyone i wil know buy each year and keep the receipt .
what about the emergency numbers does anyone have an answer for that , who do you call when there are just 2 of you , you dont want to leave your partner and ski down so who do you call
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| gwatts10 wrote: |
brilliant answers everyone i wil know buy each year and keep the receipt .
what about the emergency numbers does anyone have an answer for that , who do you call when there are just 2 of you , you dont want to leave your partner and ski down so who do you call |
Emergency numbers are on the EK piste map.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| nelly0168 wrote: |
| gwatts10 wrote: |
brilliant answers everyone i wil know buy each year and keep the receipt .
what about the emergency numbers does anyone have an answer for that , who do you call when there are just 2 of you , you dont want to leave your partner and ski down so who do you call |
Emergency numbers are on the EK piste map. |
And on the lift pass.
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Arrived at chalet at 2 and on funival at 2.30 ..... Not bad we thought.
Ripped off on half day pass 40euros for 2.5 hours skiing ..... But worth it as had great afternoon.
Down to la daille on OK, up to marmottes, few Fontaine froides and couple of faces ....snow mixed but pretty good overall. Viz generally poor and continuous light snow ..... Still going.
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Chris ski H - great - glad there is another and glad you are looking forward to getting out here again! Should be good!
gwatts10
| Quote: |
Also if an accident happens on the slopes how do you know who to phone , where do you find the emergency number .
I suppose after 30 years of 2-3 trips each year i should know but hey im just a tourist |
- On piste maps there is (well certainly around here and should be in most resorts that I have seen) the phone number for the pisteurs printed up. Whack it in your phone at the start of the week! You could also flag an instructor down and ask them to call or failing that send someone in your party to the base of the nearest lift and the lifties can call for you. Here in the EK you need the details printed in the round disks at the side of the piste - this is the number in hundreds of metres to the bottom of the current run (approx). Whether you are in Val or Tignes and the name of the piste. Based on this info the pisteurs will be able to find you! Also printed on the lift passes themselves too.
Minion1980
| Quote: |
| Do all resorts offer this? And as for buying a ski pass through your tour op - how can one get Carte Niege on this? |
- French ones yes... your tour operator should (emphasis on should) offer you the option when you buy it from them.
BUT FOLKS KEEP THE LITTLE RECEIPT BIT OF PAPER FOR GOODNESS SAKES... not only can you NOT under any circumstances get a lift pass reissued if for some reason you lose it but it shows you have paid for the Carte Neige... archaic system yes, french yes, but the way it is - yes!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Minion1980,
| Quote: |
my next trip is to Les Arcs and I have already paid for the pass through my tour operator
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I used to pay in advance for a weekly area pass through my tour operator. Then, late 90s, late January, so much snow was falling in Tignes that only one chair lift, the Palafour, was open for 4 days out of the 6. Only about 20% of the lifts were open the other 2 days, as the avalanche risk was so high, with mini slides even blocking the road up to Tignes le Lac. We were stuck in the hotel for most of the time. Largely wasted money on pre-purchased pass!
Now I always wait until arrival, having sussed out conditions and weather forecast. It's not much trouble to buy a pass from the nearest office. I also add Carre Neige insurance, which some TOs seem to have difficulty coping with. Sometimes I seem to get a better exchange rate buying direct, which saves a few euros.
In Les Arcs pre-Christmas week 2015, we committed only to 3 days full area pass. So glad we did, as conditions and increasingly crowded pistes made it less enjoyable IMO after that. Instead we had next 2 days in Espace Killy, which was lift pass money very well spent.
Convenience is nice...but sometimes flexibility and choice is better.
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@trainee snowboard jedi,
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I for one will miss the Perdix Blanche.
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I'll miss it too. Does anyone know if any Val D restaurants offer a similar standard at similar price level as the Perdrix Blanche used to?
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As an aside, I've noticed less Russians in their Bognor gear this year
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Bognor gear? Stripy swimsuit with arms, flip flops to stop the rocks hurting your feet and Potseloy Mehnya Quick hat by any chance? Should be even easier to spot than Japanese group!
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FAQ
- if it wasn't for the car door being opened you would struggle to tell which mound is that of a car wouldn't you!
