 Poster: A snowHead
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Long shot, but if anyone in Val at the moment spots a Rolex watch, please can they let me know. My wife lost her watch ysterday, not sure where, most likely Olympic side though and maybe on Face.
It's a mid size Rolex Oyster Datejust with pink mother of pearl dial, diamond digits and a diamond bezel in platinum. We will be logging the watch as lost and it has a serial number registered to my wife so it can't be legitimately / easily sold or serviced / repaired by anyone else.
It has sentimental value and we'd offer a reward of £500 if somebody finds it and returns it to us.
Many thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jut skied the face several times and didn't see anything im afraid....piste bashers are likely to have swallowed / smashed it up I'm afraid or its buried..... Come spring / summer I'll take a few hikes up there so will keep my eyes open. It's a LONG shot indeed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Blimey. I think I'll just carry on wearing my Swatch, doesn't matter so much if it gets lost.
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@Steve Angus, many thanks, appreciate you keeping your eyes peeled but I fear you're right.
Been to see police and tourist office this morning.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Steve-thanks for all the info. I wish people with little experience of the mountains could somehow see how devastating a slide can be. It may make it easier to understand that careless actions cost lives.
BTW We are in Meribel at the moment and had a lesson with your colleague Jamie- another great experience with TDC!
Stay safe.
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I think, it's the people like me who would be under the santons slide, I've been to Val once before, been down it before and know it's a piste.
Closed pistes to me (at the time of reading / writing) don't equal off piste, there are a couple of places I can think of where I've skied down closed pistes or thought about doing so. Having thought about it post accident I can see the risk here; santons is a horribly narrow gully, would it have deterred me before reading this? Probably not, do I have avi gear? - no; would I expect to need it, also no...
The santons slide and some of Steve's posts from last year show how dangerous things can be in the most unlikely of places. If the sign says closed - avalanche Danger I wouldn't go down a closed piste if it's just closed I might well have chanced it..... More the fool me ey.... 
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I think there are a few rules I follow
1. Slopes under a certain steepness (and not under a steeper slope) cannot avalanche. So ok.
2. If a piste is closed - why? Too little or too much snow. Use common sense. You might wreck your skis in one case but wreck yourself in the other
3. Use a local guide for "significant" off piste.
4. Even with 3. Do not be afraid to refuse to go on a slope. I can think of a least 3 occasions when I have decided to walk away despite a guide's assurances.
5. Always take your avalanche kit with you. I only do not if I know I am definitely not going off piste - even just off the sides. It is the same as putting on my skis to me.
And always spread the knowledge. Death is awful price to pay for ignorance or stupidity. A word in someone's shell like and using the above mentioned examples might just make him or her think twice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Levi215, most insurance policies won't cover you for skiing a closed piste should you have an accident.....
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| nelly0168 wrote: |
| Levi215 wrote: |
I think, it's the people like me who would be under the santons slide, I've been to Val once before, been down it before and know it's a piste.
Closed pistes to me (at the time of reading / writing) don't equal off piste, there are a couple of places I can think of where I've skied down closed pistes or thought about doing so. Having thought about it post accident I can see the risk here; santons is a horribly narrow gully, would it have deterred me before reading this? Probably not, do I have avi gear? - no; would I expect to need it, also no...
The santons slide and some of Steve's posts from last year show how dangerous things can be in the most unlikely of places. If the sign says closed - avalanche Danger I wouldn't go down a closed piste if it's just closed I might well have chanced it..... More the fool me ey.... |
I am slightly surprised at your post and wondered initially if it was a windup !
Pisteurs dont close pistes on a whim. These guys know what they are doing - and you shouldnt really expect any help if you completely ignore safety advice - i.e. if you go down a closed piste just for the craic.
The trouble (for everyone else) is that if you do get in trouble, these same pisteurs who closed the piste will come and try to save your life if you do get in bother.
But what a total waste of their valuable time that is, eh
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Not sure why? Some pistes are closed because of lack of cover, lack of customers, higher running costs. My initial thoughts are not of danger when a piste is closed.. Maybe they should be, yours obviously are?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski, no doubt, that also hasn't crossed my mind
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And sometimes pistes are closed in the Espace Killy because piste bashers are working using the high tension metal cable system - and the piste is closed to stop you being garrotted. Likewise they sometimes use mini artillery shells in the Brev sector so if that sign says do not pass then......
Lets face it - France does not (yet) have our ambulance chasing nanny state 'elf and safety obsession - so if a bloke has done a 2 year course at ENSA, done a long apprenticeship and studied the same bit of his resort for 10 years and decides to close a piste then I think I could be described as 1.arrogant and 2. soft in the head if I ignored his carefully placed sign
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No doubt @chocksaway, perhaps I am both. That said You are certainly not qualified to comment on my arrogance nor whether I'm soft in the head.
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You know it makes sense.
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Some great comments here folks..... ignoring the personal too'ing and fro'ing of message back and forth and any 'spikes' content there are two great comments:
chocksaway
| Quote: |
And sometimes pistes are closed in the Espace Killy because piste bashers are working using the high tension metal cable system - and the piste is closed to stop you being garrotted. Likewise they sometimes use mini artillery shells in the Brev sector so if that sign says do not pass then......
Lets face it - France does not (yet) have our ambulance chasing nanny state 'elf and safety obsession - so if a bloke has done a 2 year course at ENSA, done a long apprenticeship and studied the same bit of his resort for 10 years and decides to close a piste then I think I could be described as 1.arrogant and 2. soft in the head if I ignored his carefully placed sign |
and
mark1863
| Quote: |
I think there are a few rules I follow
1. Slopes under a certain steepness (and not under a steeper slope) cannot avalanche. So ok.
2. If a piste is closed - why? Too little or too much snow. Use common sense. You might wreck your skis in one case but wreck yourself in the other
3. Use a local guide for "significant" off piste.
4. Even with 3. Do not be afraid to refuse to go on a slope. I can think of a least 3 occasions when I have decided to walk away despite a guide's assurances.
5. Always take your avalanche kit with you. I only do not if I know I am definitely not going off piste - even just off the sides. It is the same as putting on my skis to me.
And always spread the knowledge. Death is awful price to pay for ignorance or stupidity. A word in someone's shell like and using the above mentioned examples might just make him or her think twice. |
...anyway with that in mind here is another video clip that emerged today of some apparent 'Pro-Skier' being taken in a slide in Tignes - it says it is in the Col du Palet sector - looks like one of the Chardonnay easily accessible couloirs to me! Lucky boy! If you speak French you will certainly here some choice words - you have been warned!
http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/alpes/savoie/video-theo-lange-pris-dans-une-avalanche-tignes-897565.html
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Steve Angus, another good periscope today. The forecast is awesome and we are getting excited, as we arrive in Tigne on 23rd Jan.
My son Jake arrives in Val on the 16th and I think he has booked some off piste teaching with you so conditions should be perfect for that 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Great pics and updates as ever Steve, I love all the extra info and live videos this year, it really takes you there.
The guy in the slide was very lucky, I think it scared the bejesus out of him!
I personally think it's daft going down closed pistes. They are closed for a reason, not just to spoil people's fun. A supposedly knowledgeable guy we were with in Courchevel two years ago took us down a closed black 'by mistake' and it was a nightmare, it had bare rocks halfway down it! It's a stupid risk to take IMO.
Great shot of Cocorico too, I can't wait to get back there, especially now they've extended it.
I'm still hoping to come over mid-March.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@HoneyBunny, I'm not sure it is any less daft than going off piste in the true sense of the word? Look at all the 'freeride' deaths, similarly why should anyone come and get you way out in the peaks @chocksaway, It's your call you've gone there knowing the risks so you crack on. Again with my limited experience here perhps my opinions are way off piste themselves? That said having had some lessons to try to improve my own ability, going side of piste with an instructor going between piste with an instructor... Some examples from different lesson experiences.
Side of piste (black) to work on bumps, Instructor level 4, racer. No discussion about invalidated insurance, no discussion about risk.
Side of piste (Red) to work on bumps and chopped up snow including rut lines, between piste and off piste as above. Level 4 instructor.
Down under lifts between trees level 2 instructor no discussion as above.
In all 3 circumstances no equipment for it (we were not on a piste) as is well advocated on the forum. The inclines had no avi risk, but I would imagine santons (the run) doesn't have the incline for an avalanche? That said, with the militant views represented here all three were stupid and or irresponsible. Note I was comfortable doing these things and it's not a pop at those people who I like and enjoyed the time with them immensely.
I find it truly amazing that people are having a go at me because I said I've learnt something and my thoughts were provoked, truly amazing....
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@Levi215, Santons the run itself might not avalanche but if you knew the terrain up the side above it you'd know the risk of a huge slide filling the Santons gully in. That is one run to avoid if it says closed after heavy snow !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Steveee, not from nottingham is he?
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@Levi215, assuming your insurance covers off piste then there is no reason why skiing side of piste would invalidate your insurance and need not be "stupid or irresponsible" unless the avalanche level was a 5!! That is very different to skiing a run that is marked as closed.
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@kitenski, i don't 100% agree with that but i see the point you're making.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Levi215, as said, often the risk is not of the piste itself avalanching, but the slopes either side coming down onto the piste. Santons is closed for much of the time because of this, same as Piste L. People HAVE been caught in avalanches for exactly that reason. The guy who died ended up buried in the gully (terrain trap). They were taking an enormous risk, and it didn't pay off.
I wouldn't go down a closed piste because the pisteurs have a tad more knowledge about these things than I do, and I prefer to be alive/uninjured. It is also completely different to general off piste.
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Ignoring a closed piste sign is both reckless and stupid I think. It's the pisteurs job to make those decisions so they should be trusted.
I watched my first persicope video yesterday, even though I know that when Steve returns to Britain he is in my neck of the wood I still expected a thick Scottish accent due to the name Angus! It was a bit of a surprise 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Steve Angus, Ta 
I had not picked up on that video, but have subsequently spoke to someone who thinks they saw it. I am sure you are right about the site - I think he must have already passed at least two of the Gazexs up there. There are a number of things that concern me: firstly from his shadow he appears not to be wearing a packpack, I know he was doing work for a TV company but as the only images are from his headcam so I can't say whether he was alone or not, I just hope he wears a transceiver. As he seems to have quite a following on social media the example he is setting is quite worrying. From the TV interview which I could just about follow he just seems to accept it was one of life's risks. Finally, I think if he had chucked a decent sized snowball in there the slope would have gone or even a less aggressive entry aiming above the rock to the left may have helped - who knows.
Lucky boy!
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| HoneyBunny wrote: |
| It is also completely different to general off piste. |
Not sure it is? The piste is either open or closed, if it's closed it's not patrolled not avi controlled and is not a piste, it is just mountain where a fictional zone of safety used to, or in the future can be. If you were to come across these obstacles in the wider mountains, rocks showing through the snow, machinery working doing something, a frozen lake, a stream, a gully with the risk of avalanche would you not treat it exactly the same as you would the same conditions on a closed run? The closed sign indicates a knowledge of one of those types of obstacles, but that doesn't automatically mean it's significantly more dangerous than those obstacles outside of a controlled ski area. It just means you've been more informed of them.
Indeed i think this loops back to my original point which perhaps was my original view. You could argue that because it's a piste that's closed it's not as safe as an open piste but it IS safer than true off-piste in that there will probably be more people and more help closer to you than off in a gully somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
Perhaps now my view is more along the lines that a closed piste is off-piste, being informed of these additional mountain risks in a specific area of the mountain only informs the skier it doesn't make it inherently different to general off-piste. @Minion1980, i think that depends on the situation, if it's closed due to lack of cover i'm not sure it's reckless or stupid, it's a bit sweeping to claim it is.
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You know it makes sense.
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Anyway, Thanks for the great updates Steve Angus.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Open piste = yes
Never a piste = maybe
Closed piste = no
If trained professionals have specifically said "no" then that's a strong signal.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Maireadoconnor, my thinking is of making a more specific distinction that closed doesn't necessarily mean don't go down there (although it can mean that). It means we haven't opened it, we're not working it, we're not monitoring it and therefore we're not responsible for it.
For example, continuing with EK, if the Tignes / Val link is closed early / late season, and a tourer walks up to the link and ski's down what in the season is a piste, technically it's a closed piste, in reality it's a bit of mountain.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Levi215, try telling that to a travel insurance company! But I do see your point.
If we're splitting hairs, I might distinguish between something that's usually a piste but they haven't put the markers out yet, versus something with a specific 'Closed' sign. Especially if you throw into the mix the fact that a piste could be being used for racing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I reckon a closed piste should be treated exactly the same as off-piste (which i think it is as far as travel insurance companies are concerned? i.e. probably not covered without specific insurance?) - that is, you exercise judgment as to the possible risks, which have not been mitigated.
I think the closed piste signs which warn of avalanche risk are particularly useful as a lot of people seem willing to duck the barrier without really thinking of this - and poor snow cover is more likely to wreck your bases than kill you. Ditto, the signs which warn piste bashing is taking place. But resorts do keep perfectly skiable terrain closed because the cover is judged insufficient, or they are trying to preserve what snow is there for busier weeks, or it's not worth opening the lift, or they haven't got round to bashing what's supposed to be a prepared run.
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@Levi215, closed piste is massively different to off piste IMHO. Many examples given earlier in this thread, a closed piste may have perfect snow on it, but about to be avalanched deliberately, may have a metal rope across/up it, may have a crevasse opened up in the middle of it etc etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@kitenski, cool, i see those as all being existing risks off-piste, the difference being subtle in that no-one has been there and informed you they are there. Each to their own.
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@kitenski - fair enough, but from the perspective of someone carrying out their own assessment of 'should i ski this' I'm not sure it is so different to off piste.
a closed piste may have perfect snow on it, but about to be avalanched deliberately- a skier uphill may trigger a slide offpiste which the skier downhill has no way of anticipating, or slides self trigger as the snow settles/transforms - in situations with lots of new snow/where avi risk is high, surely this is something you factor in
may have a metal rope across/up it - offpiste may well have natural hazards you have to avoid
may have a crevasse opened up in the middle of it etc etc - lots of offpiste does!
Isn't the point that you shouldn't abandon your own considerations of what is safe, how quickly and where to ski etc, in favour of following a notional piste down in lemming fashion? in this respect it's no different.
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It does depend why it's closed, and you can ask the pisteurs. Closed doesn't always equal avi risk or being bombed. Sometimes it's just not in great condition and it's a quiet week, so they didn't bother opening it.
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@belette, absolutely true, I guess the main difference is insurance being valid skiing off piste (if covered) vs not if skied a marked closed piste.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Gämsbock wrote: |
| It does depend why it's closed, and you can ask the pisteurs. Closed doesn't always equal avi risk or being bombed. Sometimes it's just not in great condition and it's a quiet week, so they didn't bother opening it. |
Santons would always be open if skiable and safe because it's one of the major runs down to the centre of the town. It follows a steep gully under obvious potential avalanche risk from the slopes on either side, which is why it's normally closed after snowfall. Sorry but anyone with a bit of mountain sense who has skied it or seen it could tell that.
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Let's suppose we are going to cross a train track at a crossing and the barrier is closed and lights and bells are ringing. Some people might think that they can make their own decision if it is safe or not. After all they could be somewhere where there is no barrier and have to make the decision anyway, so it is clearly all the same thing. NOT ! Someone has been kind enough to tell you there is a  train coming !
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FAQ
I think we are meeting up your second week 