Finally they have put this up... this has been on the books for ages. Very welcome indeed. Only thing I hope is that people can realistically have a stab at self analysis to understand and see the difference between all the levels as words and pictures are very different from breaking down one's own performance to put a tick (or not) next to each element of the criteria!
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Steve Angus, too true...
i wonder how many people (me included) will look at those and think 'yep, I can ski all of that terrain/style etc...I guess I am at least level 3.' not really realising the difference of being able to ski it and to be able to demonstrate and teach it properly.
Steve Angus, who is the skier doing the demos? Is it Paul Garner?
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Thanks skimottaret, looking forward to seeing this when I get home (videos are blocked at work).
After all it is free
After all it is free
rob@rar; Pretty sure (the videos are not the clearest but darn good) its Jim Lister doing L1 Shorts and Longs and L2 Shorts and Longs and also the Level 2 Variables. Then my colleagues Paul Garner and Dougie Cleland (now retired trainer) do L2 Bumps (Paul), Steeps (Paul) and Dougie does all the rest. Can't guarantee but pretty sure of this. These videos were taken as part of the demo team tryouts / training last year in the run up to Interski I do believe.
Hopefully BASI will now produce the rest (Bumps and Variables) Level 3 videos and all L4 videos but to be honest with you the mantra on L4 is 'you gotta outski the trainer' and make everyone say 'how' - so based on that there is not much chance of L4 videos surfacing.
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Looks really good and those L3 bumps and variable videos would be most welcome!
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Quote:
all L4 videos but to be honest with you the mantra on L4 is 'you gotta outski the trainer' and make everyone say 'how' - so based on that there is not much chance of L4 videos surfacing.
now there is A challenge for rob@rar, and skimottaret,
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Steve Angus, I thought that was Jim on a couple.. he really rips and scared the life outta me on my L3 teach a couple times.... musta been hard for him to tone it down...
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Steve Angus, thanks, we were shown those videos on my L3 Tech (which included L3 bumps?) and I thought they had some L4 demos as well, but maybe I'm imagining that.
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livetoski wrote:
now there is A challenge for rob@rar, and skimottaret,
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Steve Angus,
Quote:
so based on that there is not much chance of L4 videos surfacing.
Quote:
and I thought they had some L4 demos as well, but maybe I'm imagining that.
looks like you were right rob@rar,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
FlyingStantoni wrote:
Looks really good and those L3 bumps and variable videos would be most welcome!
They are now available, although you can't guarantee that the nice, smallish, well rounded bumps on blue and red terrain in the L3 video is what you'll actually get to ski. The only bumps I skied on my Tech were big, tight rutlines on a black slope!
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Slightly puzzled at definition of steeps e.g. Level 2 red terrain. Does this really mean offpiste in terrain of red gradient as by definition a red itself isn;t that steep?
I'm guessing you're ready when you can consistently produce this sort of skiing without concentrating too hard on it.
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fatbob, not quite sure what the definition is, but my L2 steeps were off to the side of the (black) Bouquetin (sp?) piste on Mt Chery (Les Gets). The top section of that piste is pretty steep and the little gulley we skied was a bit steeper. With BASI 'steeps' is not about what's the steepest terrain you can get down, it's about skiing with precision and good control.
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rob@rar
Quote:
With BASI 'steeps' is not about what's the steepest terrain you can get down, it's about skiing with precision and good control.
yea quite right.
fatbob It is not really about phycological steepness it is all about acquiring the technical skills to ski in control, rounded arcs, at varying speeds, constantly making adjustments on relatively steep terrain in line with the terrain where your short / long terms on piste will be performed. Again everyone should remember that skiing / snowsports in general is all about skill of outcome not just about can or cannot make it down a slope / piste... hence the reason BASI and other organisations do not stipulate EXACTING requirements but it is circumstantial.
Fantastic that these new videos have come up. Paul and Dougie in them again by the looks of things!
Is anyone else a little puzzled with the level 4 shorts and Isia bumps vids? I think they are a bit off.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, Steve Angus, fatbob, yep I understand the BASI definition of skiing as Steve Angus, says
Quote:
it is all about acquiring the technical skills to ski in control, rounded arcs, at varying speeds, constantly making adjustments on relatively steep terrain in line with the terrain where your short / long terms on piste will be performed. Again everyone should remember that skiing / snowsports in general is all about skill of outcome not just about can or cannot make it down a slope / piste
when many of us stand at the top of of nice red or black run, either off piste or on piste, with good snow conditions as shown in the videos, we think hell yes and just go for it with as few turns as possible, so when we get to the bottom there is a huge rush at having blasted down a nice bit of snow, but this is not the way a trained BASI would ski the slope if they were teaching people, they have to be in control all the time, whereas many of us love the out of control bit even more, especially when we get to the bottom without falling and look back at some nice arcs in the snow.
jjc james, I am a little puzzled too with the level 4 bumps, I might be wrong but I only observed two types of turn through the bumps and at level 4 I would expect to see more variation than this
It is not really about phycological steepness it is all about acquiring the technical skills to ski in control, rounded arcs, at varying speeds, constantly making adjustments on relatively steep terrain in line with the terrain where your short / long terms on piste will be performed. Again everyone should remember that skiing / snowsports in general is all about skill of outcome not just about can or cannot make it down a slope / piste... hence the reason BASI and other organisations do not stipulate EXACTING requirements but it is circumstantial.
Not sure i'm understanding you on this, kind of sounds like as long as you demonstrate the skills to get down steep terrain on less steep terrain then that is all that is required, no matter that a skier may not have the experience or confidence to apply the "steep" skills on steep terrain. And surely "what skiing is in general" is down to the individual.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
livetoski
Quote:
I might be wrong but I only observed two types of turn through the bumps and at level 4 I would expect to see more variation than this
yea only two types - the clip should / could have been a little bit better and shown three types / lines in the bumps but oh well not to worry.
AFA steeps / variables are concerned: Of course ripping down something on the edge of control is fun but for demo purposes and showing skill to control and adjust all the time it is not a look BASI or other organisations are keen to portray! Making it look safe, effortless and in constant control but being dynamic at all times is what they want to see.
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Something weird going on in that bump video, didn't really look that good tbh! Seem like the most spaced out bumps ever as well!
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Yeah level 4 bumps are not the best example mainly because of the bumps themselves. Their a bit wide and shallow, normally ISTD is a nice rut line where there are some decent lines available.
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OK Having looked at a few clips I understand e.g. for Level 2 short & longs are on blue therefore steeps are red and require a varied turn pattern.
L4 bumps are the widest spread bumps I've ever seen but the L4 steeps look fun. Variable snow doesn't look too shonky but I note he does hit a few ruts. This is really good even for non BASI people to understand the differences in performance.
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Frankly I think the footage of candidates doing actual ISIA and ISTD courses (also available on youtube) better reflects what the expected standard is.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
fatbob wrote:
OK Having looked at a few clips I understand e.g. for Level 2 short & longs are on blue therefore steeps are red and require a varied turn pattern.
L4 bumps are the widest spread bumps I've ever seen but the L4 steeps look fun. Variable snow doesn't look too shonky but I note he does hit a few ruts. This is really good even for non BASI people to understand the differences in performance.
Looks like the L4 bumps are thru a rut-line someone cut; they don't look like moguls!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
slikedges wrote:
Frankly I think the footage of candidates doing actual ISIA and ISTD courses (also available on youtube) better reflects what the expected standard is.
If that's the pass standard it's much more attainable than I expected. The bumps footage was pretty good, but the steeps and variables I thought pretty poor tbh!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
clarky999, the video makes the slope they are skiing the demos on appear more gentle than it is in reality I suspect. Having seen L4 Tech courses up close I think the steeps and variables work is at a pretty demanding standard, although YMMV as they say.
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rob@rar you have a point there about slopes on video camera always looking flatter than they really are. The steeps and variables as I remember it were pretty challenging and we were looking for the steepest stuff we could find in Val d'Isere to do it on. High speed long turns were down the steep part of the red coming down the front of Solaise, moguls were of course the tommeuse bumps from the top in the fall line and the short turns were on Le Face just below the top of lower (Bellevarde Express) chairlift!
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clarky999, those are candidates and not all passed... I would guess maybe a couple got through..
probably worth noting that there isnt a single prescriptive set of bumps at L3 you need to be able to ski deep black bumps, blue rut lines, chopped up variable, make x turns and change line etc... not sure about L4 but the couple guys i trained with in bumps that passed L4 could run the tommeuse top to bottom smoothly and fast as well as hammering the WC bump zipper run in Tignes..
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skimottaret wrote:
I would guess maybe a couple got through.. .
I'd agree, maybe three of them if they made progress during the course. I'm pretty sure that one of the guys was on my Tech course in May and squeaked through by doing some good work in the 2nd week.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimottaret wrote:
probably worth noting that there isnt a single prescriptive set of bumps at L3 you need to be able to ski deep black bumps, blue rut lines, chopped up variable, make x turns and change line etc... not sure about L4 but the couple guys i trained with in bumps that passed L4 could run the tommeuse top to bottom smoothly and fast as well as hammering the WC bump zipper run in Tignes..
In which case maybe at least the L4 demo vids could do with being shot on more "real world" terrain/snow rather than idealised.
I've been looking through the basi videos, got to say somewhat underwhelmed by the skiing being demonstrated, even in the level 4 ones. Maybe the camera not doing justice to the conditions. Whilst clicking around youtube came across this CSIA Level 4 demo http://youtube.com/v/dgQJ-W3JP38&feature=related the skiing standard shown here looks a different standard to me.
Maybe the camera not doing justice to the conditions.
I tend to agree. When I've seen good L4 candidates and their Trainers my impression of their skiing is at a higher level than those videos.
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Well here are three Istd's in the bumps, made in March in the weekend between the Morzine Eurotests. May have linked it to a previous bumps thread so you may have seen it already.
jjc james, nice video ! shows what the real world "level" needs to be quite well...
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agreed with most people that the BASI video's do not show up as being vastly dynamic but the jjc james videos do a lot more justice!
Quote:
I assume level 4 in both systems is similar standard?
...standard may be equivacable?!? but employment opportunities a little more available with BASI. In no small part to the extra off-piste / race coaching etc modules.
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jjc james, nice video, but I was waiting for a helicopter and daffy jump, showing my age
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