 Poster: A snowHead
|
One of my colleagues has recently given me a book she picked up in a charity shop titled "we learned to ski" - I think its from the 70s and looks a bit dated. However, looks quite interesting and worth a read anyway.
I was looking through it the other night and it mentions Ski Evolutif. I was quite surprised as I wasn't aware that you don't do snowplough turns in Ski Evolutif. Although I am a 3rd week skier, I have always thought that the snowplough is one of the most important manoevures, if not THE most important.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I wouldn't call it anything near important. It tends to be one of them 'learn and forget' things - essential that you learn it so you can progress, but once you progress, most people forget about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
It certainly is important. It is really surprising to see how bad, very experienced skiers, can do snowploughs.
We do them as part of warm up exersices every week when training/learning
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
My introduction to skiing was in Les Arcs where they used (still use?) Ski Evolutif. The snowplough was taught on the fifth day as 'something that might be useful in a lift queue'.
I'm not an expert skier by any means, but I can do snowplough turns if I want to (?) and I don't consider this skill to be of importance. The snowplough is useful for teaching the effect of weighting the skis but is not in itself something one uses in practice.
I take it the book you've got is the Sunday Times one? A great textbook in its time.
All IMHO as a decidedly intermediate skier, of course 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
mark_s, backwards snowploughs are easy where are you having problems ?
Snowploughs are useful even for experienced skiers although though rarely used anyone who thinks otherwise is badly mistaken
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mark_s, just keep it gentle, exactly like a fowards snowplough, start off an a quiet blue somewhere and just keep going till it gets easier, the only thing thats different is how your legs bend
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Alastair wrote: |
| The snowplough is useful for teaching the effect of weighting the skis but is not in itself something one uses in practice. |
Agreeing with D G Orf, this should say: "but is not in itself something one uses much in practice."
I imagine everyone uses a snowplough from time to time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would guess it is the Sunday Times book. It's amazing how much of it is still relevant. I particularly like the "Snowcraft" section towards the end. Are You a crafty skier? ( I think there's another thread looming there).
How often do you see instructors snowplowing? Surprisingly often (and I don't mean when they are teaching it). It's a very useful, non-dynamic way of controlling and maintaining speed. I would be surprised if I didn't snowplough at least once a day - lift queues, crowded paths, skiing with kids, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
The snowplough is a good way of controlling speed on a gentle narrow section. I remember using it often in Sestriere and Sauze as some runs were interlinked by narrow "paths" which were aprox 10-15 meters long but relativley steep so Parallell turns were not possible as a means of controlling speed so the only option open was a snowplough without the turn section!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm cr@p at snowploughs and always have been, when I learnt to ski I found that as my snowplough didn't seem to work to slow me down the best way of stopping was a hockey stop, I then realised that this could be converted into a turn and hey presto I could sort of ski and the snowplough was forgotten for a while.
Then last year doing race training the coach had us doing snowploughs - he pointed out that if you get yourself into a snowplough position then lift your inside ski and put it by the other one you are in the ideal parallel skiing position - doing a snowplough forces you to do all the right things with your outside ski - so the theory is doing snowplough well helps all your skiing - I found that what it did do was make my legs really hurt!! 
Mrs H spent ages practicing snowploughing when she did her level 1 instructors course and reckons it really helps your skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| mark_s wrote: |
| I wouldn't call it anything near important. It tends to be one of them 'learn and forget' things - essential that you learn it so you can progress, but once you progress, most people forget about it. |
Have you tried the ice-fall section of the Vallée Blanche (for example) without using a wedge?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Always had a really good snowplough. Women are better, it's the hip width. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
mark_s, just keep it gentle, exactly like a fowards snowplough, start off an a quiet blue somewhere and just keep going till it gets easier, the only thing thats different is how your legs bend
|
D G Orf, There IS a Ski Instructor lurking inside you! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
snowbunny, speak for yourself, my @rse is not wide!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 11-08-05 10:00; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
IncogSkiSno, well probably
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
IncogSkiSno, You don't need a wide @rse, it's the hip width that counts 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Way back in the days when ski racing was partly filmed by another skier skiing, the Beeb used a skier who called his technique a racing snowplough. Quite a tough job, I would guess that it was a wedge rather than a wide plough, but to carry the camera, and film as well  . Can't quite remember the guys name, (Fitz?) but he was featured in the Radio Times, a "hows' it done" article :
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| David Murdoch wrote: |
It's a very useful, non-dynamic way of controlling and maintaining speed.
|
| ginger winger wrote: |
The snowplough is a good way of controlling speed on a gentle narrow section.
|
Agree wholeheartedly. I'd say I use a snowplough many times during a skiing day. It is effortless on a gentle slope and allows very fine control of position and aspect in both directions with no discernible mental or physical effort. I use it mainly at the tops and bottoms of lifts, but also where gentle and narrow or where very crowded. Often rather than swinging down the icy middle of a narrow path crowded with skiers who are slightly out of control, I snowplough down the cliff edge side where there is softer snow usually with an upward cant so as to make swinging uncomfortable if not actually difficult. However, I find snowploughing on a steep pitch does involve concentration and physical effort so it's then easier to ski parallel.
I think there's a snobbishness about the humble snowplough. Many skiers seem to think they're too good to be doing it and don't want to be seen doing it. I find it comfortable and useful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm very happy that I know how to snowplough. If something slightly surprising happens in a cramped spot, like a big fat Europerson skiing across you in a lift queue, it's very handy, and I use them occasionally on the piste. It's another tool in the box, along with sideslipping and stem type turns.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Another example of snowplough use, I once skied for I guess the best part of 3km in a snowplough in a blizzard with a very upset young woman holding on to me, her idiot boyfriend had taken her up the mountain after she'd had just one two hour lesson and had actually when I came across them got completely lost, on the race track instead of the blue run ! If I hadn't been able to snowplough properly I could not have got the young lady safely down, the only answer would have been for her to take her skis off and walk uphill for about 1.5 km to the nearest station,mind you I had a few choice words to say to her boyfriend once I'd got her safely down to the next station and before I pointed my skis down hill and disappeared into the Blizzard
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
laundryman, my main use of snowploughs seems to be coming up to lift queues, or while desparately trying to avoid the crackpot who suddenly slows down in front of me. I have to say, it does work though
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Big respect to the patrollers who can ski non-stop from top-to-bottom in a snowplough whilst controlling a sledge with someone in it - now that really is true snowplough mastery!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
There will be quite a few people out there grateful for the fact that the rescue teams can snowplough down a run with a body bag!
I find it very useful when stuck behind a beginner on a track - it's a great way to control speed - I must learn to overtaken on the side with a drop then I wouldn't have to hang about behind them!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
mark_s, By your own admission on another thread, you're not very experienced. I infer from this that you're at the point in your ski-ing life as mentioned by slikedges, . Even in Ski Evolutif they found they had to teach people to snowplough. In the early days they didn't at all. There are two problems with early ski evolutif technique: firstly that it was designed for the compact ski, which in turn was designed to rotate and slide - skidded turns were the thing. They discovered quite quickly that this was a bad idea resulting in numbers of totally out of control skiers everywhere - result: the compact ski died a death. Secondly because of the origins they taught people to turn their bodies (rotation) in order to turn, which is a really bad fault, and results in lack of ability to progress and also lack of control, particularly on steeper or icy slopes. Now, I should think (but do not know) that they've adapted ski evolutif to the modern carving ski, but it isn't necessary any more. Would you pay extra for your lessons so you could change your skis every other day? Who pays for that? The ski shop??? Logistical nightmare!! BTW I have used the system once or twice for physical reasons.
The snowplough and snowplough turn (what ever you want to call it) is the essential base to everyone's ski-ing. A snowplough turn is no different (except in the position of the inside ski) than a parallel turn. If you can do it well, you can use it at any time. To throw away any tool is foolish - they're all useful in different situations.
Guys - if you have pain in your hips, move your hips further forward so they're over the balls of your feet, and it won't happen - it's the sitting back that causes it.David Murdoch, spot on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think my comment has caused some confusion. What I meant was that people learn them, but once they are past that stage, it isn't something they'd come back to and actively practice. It just tends to be there in the back of your mind if you need to use it. In that sense, I wouldn't consider it 'one of the most important manoevures, if not THE most important'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
easiski, I recognise the failures in the Ski Evolutif teaching that you mention. Took me a long time to correct the faults; I'm not sure I have, entirely. I didn't mean to be as dismissive of the slowplough as I probably appeared!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
My view - it's a useful tool to have, but not one to overuse. It isn't a very natural "aligned" position. I shudder when I see people who are capable of doing a check turn or something similar prefering a snowplough. I sometimes ski with one bloke who does this all the time even though a couple of years ago he trashed both knees as a result of using this tactic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I remember at Les Arcs seeing a terrified skier holding a perfect slowplough position appear over the brow on the piste - airborne! I just knew it wouldn't end prettily....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Alastair, a perfect illustration of my point
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Alastair, I'm not sure you can blame the snowplough for that particular situation...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
David Murdoch, 'who the bloody hell put that brow there!?'
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alastair, I didn't think you meant that! I also don't dismiss ski evolutif - it was a really good idea, that didn't quite work. In fact it would definitley work better now with short carvers - start on snowblades, then 1.20s building up to around 1.40-1.50 skis - nae bother! Your snowplough jumper must have been funny to watch - at least in retrospect!
mark_s, I take your point, but as the snowplough is the first way you learn to control your speed, and as the snowplough turn is the base of every other turn to come - I would certainly conisder it VERY important. However, personally I still consider sideslipping THE most important thing you'll ever learn on skis. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
easiski, falling is pretty useful too
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
