 Poster: A snowHead
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For DIY ski servicing, what is a good quality bit of kit for sharpening and tuning the edges?
Are those little Toko hand held things really capable of putting a constant edge angle on the full lenghth of the ski?
I'm not looking to go mad, but which ones should I be looking at to give the edges the sharpness they deserve?
Thanks in advance.
Marc
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marc gledhill, I'm not sure, I've a TOKO tool that lets you do side and base edges at the same time and it's surprisingly good, however it's not made any longer and I'm not as impressed with the new versions, the best option for accuracy are the preset weges that you clamp a file to
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
| Are those little Toko hand held things really capable of putting a constant edge angle on the full lenghth of the ski? |
IMO no. I think you need at least aluminium fixed angle file guides for consistency, rather than plastic. With two pairs of quality skis I think that you'll find that money spent on good tools is money well spent.
Check-out http://www.kunzmann-skitools.de
If you want pretty good kit at a fair price here's what you'll need for a full edge tune & regular tune ups after your race sessions on the white 'sand' at Castleford:
3121 Aluminium side angle guide c/w clamp £ 17.50
3224 Diamond stone, coarse/black £ 23.55*
3226 Diamond stone, medium/blue £ 23.55
3263 Diamond stone, fine/red £ 18.90
3238 World cup std file without tang £ 8.00*
3246 Gummi stone £ 7.00
3333 Brake lock rubbers c/w finger pull £ 2.50
You can get the above from Ronnie at Kandie Products on 01324 861 296. Above prices inc VAT & postage but you could try a haggle for a bit of extra discount, maybe up to 15%.
*If you don't want to alter your existing angles then don't get the file & the coarse diamond stone.
In addition you'll need a base angle guide. Kunzmann do a plastic one, ref. 3162 for £3.50 but I haven't seen/tried it. The best plastic one is probably the Base Beast from http://www.therace-place.com as it has a stainless steel elevation bar. It'll be about £20 inc shipping etc.
Not liking plastic as it tends to flex too easily, I went for a metal base guide. This choice limits you to the 'quality' end of the market and a Toko World Cup Base Bevel Guide at about £40 inc shipping from http://www.artech.com or a SVST Final Cut from http://www.race-werks.com at about £50. I've a spare 1 degree SVST Final Cut which you can have for £35 if you're interested. It's a cracking piece of kit, better engineered than the Toko & would be great for your skis. Unfortunately it doesn't suit the concave bases on my b5's so I needed a guide that covers the full width of the base so I bought the Toko.
You'll also need a vice set.
Oh yes, all of the above will fit nicely in to your ESA 06 luggage bag 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
For DIY ski servicing, what is a good quality bit of kit for sharpening and tuning the edges?
Are those little Toko hand held things really capable of putting a constant edge angle on the full lenghth of the ski?
I'm not looking to go mad, but which ones should I be looking at to give the edges the sharpness they deserve?
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I use an 88 degree guide & clamp from Data Wax and a Toko file.
I also have a small sharpening stone to remove any burrs before using the file.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with spyderjon and prefer dedicated guides for base and side angles, you get much better feel and control of how much material you remove. but it really depends on how comfortable and confident you are with hand tools.
Also, restoring the sharpness of the edges between major services normally only needs the attention of a diamond stone if a bit more material needs to be taken off then it only needs to be taken off the side edge. The all in one tools don't allow this sort of flexibility and you end up removing more more material than you really need to.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks all, details now digested.
spyderjon, OK, so you need one bit of kit for side walls and one for base edges. I presume the diamond stones fit the base guide too, or do you use various coursnesses of stones in that too? If you have the File Guide and it's stones, what are the World Cup file and gummi stone for?
rjs, If you don't have the base guide, am I right in thinking you run 0* on the base angle and use the file on the bases to keep them keen?
Again, thanks for the input.
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As a bit of an aside, has anyone seen this before.
A couple of hundred quid gets you all yer tools, vices and files apparently. And even an utter moron can use them, so I might be OK.
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marc gledhill, yep it's come up before, I just can't find it at the moment
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, thanks for that, so as usual it's not as good as it could be. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks comprex, I couldn't remember which thread it was in
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
OK, so you need one bit of kit for side walls and one for base edges. I presume the diamond stones fit the base guide too, or do you use various coursnesses of stones in that too? If you have the File Guide and it's stones, what are the World Cup file and gummi stone for?
rjs, If you don't have the base guide, am I right in thinking you run 0* on the base angle and use the file on the bases to keep them keen? |
The base angle & side angle file guides are seperate 'guides' only into which you fit either a file or a diamond stone. The same files or stones fit in to both types of guide.
The file (or a series of various grade files) is used if you need to remove material, ie changing the side angle etc. Whereas a stone (or various grades of stones) is used to polish the edges when the angles are already set. Note: I know that stones are actually removing material when they polish, in fact a very coarse stone may equal a very fine cut file, but I'm sure that you know what I mean.
If your angles are already set then you don't really need the file as the edges can be kept sharp with only a stone. A stone is also needed to remove any high spots on the edges caused by impacts (rocks etc) as the impact causes the edge to become case hardened - meaning that it's too hard to remove by a file and must be polished (ie ground) off.
As has been said earlier, once both angles have been initially set & polished, future tuning then just consists of polish the side edge only. If you keep on polishing the base angle you'll end up lowering the edge below the p-tex base & end up needing a stone grind to lower the base back down to level with the edge material. Unless damaged, I probably do my base angle about every 5th time I do the side angle.
A gummi stone is a hardish slighty abrasive rubber block. When you polish the edge you still get a slight burr where the two angled faces meet. This is removed, or 'dressed off', by very lightly sliding the gummi along the apex of the edge at about a 45 degree angle for just 1 or 2 full length passes only. It can also be used to detune the tips & tails (  ).
I didn't quite understand your question to Rob. You need a base angle to help you put the ski on edge. Angles mostly go from 0.5 degrees to 1.5 degrees with 1 degree being common for most mortals. The greater the angle the easier it is to go from edge to edge. Most skis are shipped with a 0.5 or a 1 degree base angle ready set. Your file or stones are not used to work on the actual p-tex base.
I've a very good tuning video that you can borrow. Seeing it done is waaay easier than trying to explain it. I'm don't think I'll be at the Lions next week so PM me your address & I'll post it to you.
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
rjs, If you don't have the base guide, am I right in thinking you run 0* on the base angle and use the file on the bases to keep them keen? |
I aim for a flat base, but may end up with a slight bevel if I bend the file while holding it against the ski.
The only reason I mentioned the file is that the guide comes with one, but I bought it from a shop before I knew Ed
Pirie and I already had a good file.
I will do one swipe down the sides each time I use the skis, but I try to take off as little as possible. I don't flat file
the bases very often.
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, once again, may thanks. You've obviously been into this in some detail.
For exactly the same reason as you I've ordered the Toko WC base bevel guide and emailed Ronnie for a quote for the items on your list and a set of vices.
I presume you can tell from rjs's reply that I mean he must be running without a base bevel at all, I knew some racers prefer that, although I think I'll settle for 1* on the base and 2*/88* on the edge for the time being. The factory settings on my skis were 1* & 1* when new so I should be fine with that.
A loan of your video would be great though, much appreciated.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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marc gledhill, Looks like I'll be able to make it to the Lions session tomorrow (Mon 15th) so I'll bring the video for you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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marc gledhill, I tried to order some kit off Ronnie at Kandie Imports but he wasn't willing to deal with me direct sadly.
If you also have no luck you can always download the catalogue from Kunzmann and decide what you want then ask the guys at Glide+Slide to order the stuff for you from Ronnie like I had to.
See you guys tomorrow at Cas'.
Regards,
Chris
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderjon. Is it still possible to buy the video on ski servicing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, It's the 'Beast' tuning video. I've seen a few different ones & I reckon it's the best. Unfortunatley my copy's out on loan to Marc & is not for sale.
You can order it online from http://www.race-werks.com for $19.95 plus shipping.
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FAQ
