 Poster: A snowHead
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Warning JB1970 sort of question !!!
I'm seriously thinking about moving over to Dynafit touring bindings but wanted to ask first if they made so much difference from others who have used both touring binding types.
Do you really feel a great difference with ....
1) the weight.
2) the pivot point.
3) the binding release /safety.
4) binding slop.
5) step in hassles.
etc ?
One thing that is holding me back is that a new Dynafit version will come out next season
http://www.wildsnow.com/4309/dynafit-bindings-radical-2011/
and it might be better to wait for the new model, or get a good price on an old model.
Doing a 7 day tour in April (5 days hut to hut) and many weekends before then so if they really make that much of a difference now would be the time to buy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I found it a huge differance moving from Fritschi to Dynafit. 
1. The weight differance on a hut to hut tour is the main thing you will notice,It is a joy to move on a lightweight set up.
2. The pivot point between the Dynafit and the old Fritschi Freeride plus is supossed to give a more natural walk but to be honest I did not really notice.Being lower is noticeable to me though.
3. Not an issue I never fall Lol
4. Far better on the dynafit you feel locked to the ski,There is no slop.
5. Icing of the front locating points can be a bit of a mare but you soon get used to it.
Everyone goes to dynafit in the end.
Regards Mark
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I sold my Fritschis and put Dynafit TLTs onto my dedicated touring skis....
Should have done it ages ago - (but the cost of new boots with inserts put me off for awhile).
1) the weight.
Dyanfit wins by a mile...
Saving 1Kg off each foot might not seem like very much.
But its at the end of your leg - which is a long lever.
Over a 1000m skin you avoid moving something like a tonne of weight.
With dynafit you will be climbing like a goat on redbull.
And leaving everyone on Fritschi / Marker for dust.
It really does make that much difference.
2) the pivot point.
Another win for Dynafit.
Pivot at the toe is much much nicer.
3) the binding release /safety.
Dynafit release sideways. But not vertically.
I dont think its a big deal - you shouldnt be crashing when touring, and it doesnt concern me.
With dynafit you need to avoid ice building up under the toe pieces (takes a little care and can cause nasty pre-releases - but easily avoidable).
On steeper terrain though you can lock the dynafit toe out (which is like a DIN of 20+!).
4) binding slop.
Fritschi binding slop is a myth. Most sloppy Fritschis are actually badly setup. For most normal people Fritschis ski just fine.
One bonus of Dynafit however is that your boot is flat on the ski as there is no stack height.
5) step in hassles.
Dynafits are a hassle to step into, especially in deep powder snow.
But you get better with practice and it only takes a couple of seconds.
Though you do need to take time and make sure they are clipped in properly....
Fritschi is certainly much easier to step into for resort skiing.
You also missed.....
6) Ski Brakes
Dynafit ski brakes are pretty crap. So much so that many people just use the brakeless TLTs instead of the Verticals.
But if you always remember to rotate the heel (switch to ski mode) before taking skins off then it should avoid most run away skis scenarios.
Summary.
For a dedicated touring setup Dynafit wins hand down. Basically because they skin so well - and 90% of your time is spent going up.
If your skiing resorts (i.e just doing short skins for powder) then then there is still an argument for Fritshci (or even better Markers).
There is nothing wrong with Fritschi bindings, I loved mine. But dynafit is a piece of engineering genius!
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FWIW those new dynafits look like an incremental improvement rather than a gamechanger
i've had fritschis, markers and dynafits and dynafits are clearly the best at what they are designed for
i am guaranteed one dynafiddle (where i can't get my boot to engage properly in ski mode) per week which is annoying but outweighed by the other good stuff
brakes are definitely a matter of taste - i got tired of the ones on my first set of dynafits and now have some TLT speeds on my dedicated touring skis - DPS Wailer 105 + TLT speeds = ridiculously fun ski for the light weight
that said if you are happy with your setup now, i wouldn't say that you'd be stupid to keep it. if you are looking to buy a new setup, the only reason to go for fritschis (IMO) would be if you wanted to be able to use alpine boots with them
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My current skis and bindings are pretty beat up and I wouldn't trust them on another long tour. Ski base is shot, binding has lost a screw and flew apart once. I do have a second lightly used pair of freerides and the exact same ski still in the wrapper (very cheap end of season sale).
For a small cost I could just put the better Fritschi on the unridden ski but I always planned to go dynafit someday. Now might be the right time to go for new touring boots (Garmont Shogun TLT) and a Dynafit binding. ca €20 v €700 but my boots are also 5 years old and a new pair of boots would be "nice".
The weight saving isnt that much is it?
The Fritschi eagle 1720g / pair (similar to my white 2005 freerides), Dynafit Vertcal 530g / pair = ca 600g saving per foot
Big downside of going dynafit is that I probably won't be able to get away with just one pair of ski boots for touring and alpine (Garmont fits me better than Dynafit) = even more cost.
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| DB wrote: |
| Big downside of going dynafit is that I probably won't be able to get away with just one pair of ski boots for touring and alpine (Garmont fits me better than Dynafit) = even more cost. |
the Garmont Shoguns ski pretty well but if your concern is getting them into an alpine binding, fair point
there is a new garmont boot with swappable soles coming out which looks like it would work with touring and alpine bindings - can't remember name but there is a thread on TGR somewhere. it sounds like it will be frikkin heavy though
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| Quote: |
The weight saving isnt that much is it?
The Fritschi eagle 1720g / pair (similar to my white 2005 freerides), Dynafit Vertcal 530g / pair = ca 600g saving per foot |
Saving 1kg might not seem like much...
But any weight removed from your bindings / boots makes a massive difference. Basically because your leg is a long lever.
Apparently 1kg on foot = 5kg in your pack... So on the way up dynafit makes a huge difference.
Especially on longer ascents or over several days.
You can get second hand dynafits cheap (< £100) from ebay.de.
But new boots with inserts is the expensive part...
| Quote: |
| Big downside of going dynafit is that I probably wont be able to get away with just one pair of ski boots (Garmont fits me better than Dynafit) = even more cost. |
For long ski tours you dont want to be using alpine boots....
However plenty modern touring boots (Tecnica Agent / Black Diamond factor / Garmont) give near alpine performance and could be used for resort skiing if you only want one pair of boots.
I think most of them you can swap the soles - some have vibram style soles with smooth plastic under the toe piece for DIN rated release.
As ever with ski touring its all about compromise between up / down and obviously the cost.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Haggis_Trap,
Just to clarify I use a touring boot for alpine (and touring) not the other way round. Garmont boots (that best fit me feet) aren't compatible with all three binding types (alpine, touring and tech) at the moment.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The Axon & Shogun etc have vibram and Dynafit
The Adrenalin & Endorphine have vibram and Alpine
I have to give up Alpine for Dynafit with the current Garmont boots (exc something which weighs a "ton")
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Gotcha..... That seems a slight oversight. I just presumed (wrongly) all Garmont boots would have inserts these days.
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DB, I've drunk from the cup of cool aid and there is only one answer: of course it's worth it.
The only draw back to Dynafits is when you use them for something they're not really designed for: lots of piste skiing, they don't have the elasticity of any other bindings, so if you spend hours and hours hammering pistes all day then you can find it tiring. Having said that I know lots of skiers who do ski them inbounds all day with no problem. I mention this only because if it weren't for this draw back then I would ditch my alpine bindings all together.
I thought you went for some last winter? I guess not.
The up is so phenomenal that it changes your level of enjoyment. Just one stride away from Lycra... do it...
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You know it makes sense.
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Coming from a more Freeride perspective ... I skin to get to the downhill bit ...
Still Dynafit, definitely.
Even on a short skin, the weight & movement make a difference.
Fritschi slop is not a myth, even when set up correctly. Dynafits give a much more positive connection to the ski. This, combined with the lower ride height, give a fabulous connection to your edges.
Yes, they can be a pain to get on sometimes.
I haven't come out of them yet, read into that what you will, but I am a light smooth skier who rarely goes down.
Markers are too heavy for anything other than posing in the lift queue.
I am a recent convert from years in Fritschis. I won't be going back.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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FWIW I very rarely have trouble stepping in to mine...
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Poster: A snowHead
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OK thanks all. After years of doing a JB1970 on this one it looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and get some dynafit boots / bindings and it's all your fault.
Dynafit Vertical FT, ST or another model. Guess I need crampons too? Anything else?
PS Can you ski bumps on dynafit or is that like asking for hospital food?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB, no problems, I have never come out skiing bumps. Although Arno was amused with a pre-release of mine that meant he had a nice walk to get some skis - ooops sorry - not in the bumps though. See my point about elasticity though, it doesn't feel quite the same.
Will doing a JB1970 become an internetism in the near future?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
PS Can you ski bumps on dynafit or is that like asking for hospital food?
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I suspect if you zipperline bumps forever then you will break them. I've never had a pre-release skiing. I've had the odd step-out in tour mode but that is due to poor technique/competence failure etc.
Regarding models:
FT12 = imv not worth it unless you need the increased release setting.
ST10 = heavier than the TLT speed, can have brakes and has 3 height climbing bale, 26mm of adjustment on the heelpiece
TLT speed = lighter than the ST10, needs leashes, 2 height climbing bale (slightly less delta iirc - Dynafit has a lot of delta)
For me it was between the latter 2. I wanted brakes hence the ST10.
You will not regret this. My delight at getting rid of my Naxon NX21s and replacing them with Dynafit was indecent.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, Can't go wrong with a Shogun, I can't plug this boot enough I know, but we honestly get people calling us back and telling us just how good it really is and how close and natural the Flex really is to an Alpine shell. I love it for sure, but it is the first time I've actually had so many call backs just to let us know.
As for the "Delirium" and other such models, of which there are huge amounts next year, from everybody, i just think it's a stop gap, that has now missed the boat. Dual SOLEs don't seem to help in our "Duke - Dynafit" world anymore. You buy a Shogun and you can use it in either, no need to faff, and it is a faff, compared to adjusting bindings, to change SOLEs. The only advantage as I see it right now, for changing SOLEs is when testing skis with an Alpine SOLE, however the use of Maker Duke derived bindings seem to be now standard in test and rental, at least here in Cham, this will soon be common place. Otherwise and supplementary is the new multi binding plates.
What we are seeing, which I find hysterical right now is with the Rando markets obsession with 4 buckles and proper Alpine Flex and Alpine boots, with SLE compatibility and 3 buckles, the two markets having seemed to pass each other like ships in the night.
More quotes for some, but just my vision, having seen a good few of these 'Hybrids' this last few weeks.
Think they should all be called Aspire-boots. Fingers crossed they will fit well enough to be used when one day you 'ONE' starts hiking a bit more.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Yes tried on the Shogun and really liked the fit and flex. Noticed the sole length was longer than my Adrenalins (305 v 297 for a mondo 26). Do you think it's worth trying the next size down in the Shogun (26 was the smallest they had in stock) or is the sole size longer but the internals a similar size to the adrenalin?
Is the Shogun liner any good (G-fit or Padlock?) or would you put something else in from day one? (intution etc)
http://www.wildsnow.com/2082/radium-backcountry-skiing-boots-garmont/
.... and yes the only significant disadvantage would be when wanting to hire an alpine ski at one of the local hills. I'll hang onto the adrenalins for those days and maybe get some alpine boots later.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, not too up on boots but I'll probably be replacing mine next season.
With the stuff above, do you mean I could get a dynafit compatable boot that I can use (without faffing around changing soles) fine in my Barons, until I can afford to get dynafit bindings the season after?
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^ somethinglike this is what you want. grippy sole with low friction toe section.
one of my mate uses this boot for everything (thought I still prefer separate alpine + touring boots)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, Yes, any Rando/Touring SOLE will work with Duke derived bindings.
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DB, i got shoguns last year with the padlock liner. i am not fussy about liners usually but the padlock was pretty crappy. as a stopgap, i swapped over the liner from my alpine boots which worked pretty well. i have now got some palau thermoformable liners which work very well
haven't looked at pricing this year but the shoguns were about EUR130 cheaper than radiums last year so paying extra for the aftermarket liner basically made them the same price as the radiums with a stock liner. bargain!
fyi - there is a lot more room in the toebox than you think on the shoguns. they felt pretty tight round there until i got my well packed out alpine liners in when lo and behold - lots of nice wriggle room for my tootsies
SMALLZOOKEEPER, have you seen pics of the eric hjorwhatsit titan frankenboot? seems to bear out your comments on the 3 vs 4 buckles
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DB wrote: |
The weight saving isnt that much is it?
The Fritschi eagle 1720g / pair (similar to my white 2005 freerides), Dynafit Vertcal 530g / pair = ca 600g saving per foot |
Just realized the weights I used were wrong 
Dynafit Vertical are 530g / ski = 1060 / pair so its 350g lighter per foot.
Dynafit Vertical FT (ST saves a further 20g)
313g lighter per foot v Marker F12 Tour
345g lighter per foot v Marker F10 Tour
350g lighter per foot v Fritschi Eagle
565g saving per foot v Fritschi Freeride Pro
695g saving per foot v Marker Baron
770g saving per foot v Marker Duke
All based on catalog weights
More realistic weights here ....
http://www.wildsnow.com/more/backcountry-skiing-gear-weights/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Basically a Nordica Speedmachine, with one less buckle (albeit the new ankle one works best.) and a walk mode similar to the Quest.
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| Quote: |
| The weight saving isnt that much is it? |
Well for comparison a brake-less TLT is more like 350g. (the rando perverts set up!)
Though lighter boots such as Garmonts also help.
The weight savings might not seem like much.
But its all weight moved by your foot at end of a big lever (your leg).
So the net effect is massive. (Over a 600m skin the extra 300/500g per stride really add up).
Saving 500g from each foot is very different to putting that extra weight into your pack.
For ascending someone on dynafits has a genuine advantage.
(think how wider skis help in powder, its a similar game changer)
There is nothing wrong with Fritschi (I happily went up Mont Blanc twice on mine).
Many people happily do Haute Route tours using Fritschis - it is a great binding.
But anyone who thinks that the extra weight wont make a difference is kidding themselves.
Dyanfit is simply much more efficient - however fit or strong you are to start with.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 20-01-11 11:30; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Boots, Fit over Weight, just trim 3kg off your silly beard.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Haggis_Trap,
Thinking of getting a wider touring ski for powder days (e.g. K2 Wayback, Völkl Nanuq, Movement Source etc) was hoping the dynafit weight saving would allow me to go for such skis without an overall weight increase per foot.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sounds like a good list of options to me 
Look at the K2 Coomback and Movement Jackal / Couloir also...
All of them quite light for their size. Coomback + Dynafit is very popular in the alps.
Depends how wide you want to go.
For multi day / longer ski tours something 80-90mm is generally accepted as ideal.
But for skiing powder then you cant beat 100mm+ on the way down.
As ever with touring kit its all about compromise between the up and down.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK, I own Fritschis and I'm too poor to buy new bindings... but this thread is making me envious... I won't be switiching just yet as I use alpine boots (and no, I have not done any long hut to hut tours in them), but maybe one day I'll get around to buying touring boots, and perhaps they won't be Quests.
One thing that is not really mentioned on this thread is the release from Dynafit. Do they release in a reliable way, are they as "safe" as Fritschis. I know of one mountain guide who uses Fritschis because he reckons Dynafit are "unsafe". I know other guides who use Dynafit and say they are fine. SO, are there any horror stories, or do they release when you want them to and not before?
Also, how do ski crampons work with Dynafits? Do they fit to the binding or boots?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Haggis_Trap,
On the weekends I tour in the mountains near to here (Vienna, Austria) even when the snow is deep up top it's very rarely deep all the way down hence a wide allrounder probably better suits my needs (read wants) than a dedicated powder ski. Plus I'm only 72 kg so don't need a superwide ski for float.
Decisions decisions .....
K2 Wayback - Rocker & light 3000g @ 174, great reviews but edge hold not so good.
Movement Source - inbetween the two 3380g @ 169 and great graphics. not so stable in tracked out terrain.
Völkl Nanuq - Great reviews. Based on Mantra, best edge hold and most stable but heavy 3500g @ 170
Leaning toward the K2 Wayback as it's light, cheaper, has an all terrain rocker, and wouldn't be used on low snow / icy days.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 20-01-11 15:44; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| Do they release in a reliable way, are they as safe as Fritschis. |
They release - not as smooth as fritschi, but not enough to concern me.
When touring most people tend to ski a little more cautious anyway.
| Quote: |
| Also, how do ski crampons work with Dynafits? |
Crampon clips into a ledge on the toe piece.
But some people prefer telemark crampons attached to a fixing on the ski.
Lou Dawsons web site (wildsnow.com) has more info on dynafit that you could possible imagine or ever need to know.
| Quote: |
| Leaning toward the K2 Wayback as it\\\'s light, cheaper, has an all terrain rocker, and wouldn\\\'t be used on low snow / icy days. |
Sport Conrad often have some great deals on K2.
I am speculating the way-back rocker wont affect the hard snow performance as much as you think.
K2 seem to have nailed the concept of rocker (i.e the rockier is not just for powder mantra seems to be true...)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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sah, they release when you need them too, IME they hold you in when you need them to. Maybe not as smooth in release at other AT bindings but I have had far less pre-release with Dynafits than Fritschi / Naxos. And they save lives, OK?
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IME prereleases only happen when (a) you haven't put them on properly or (b) your name is parlor and you have just proclaimed "Check me out - I am going to rip the s4it out of this!!"
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| Arno wrote: |
| (b) your name is parlor and you have just proclaimed "Check me out - I am going to rip the s4it out of this!!" |
Sometimes just the way I click in to my bindings and stand above my line for a few minutes waiting for the photogs to get ready it has exactly the same effect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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^ comedy pre-release on parlor at exact moment he tries to get rad for photo opportunity ?
further proof that this binding is totally awesome - +1 for dyanfit, it wouldnt happen with fritschi
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actually he wasn't really showing off that much but it was pretty funny
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FAQ
