British ski market falls another 11% - Crystal Ski Report 2009/2010 (with link)

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I wonder how that compares with other overseas holidays; an item on the news this morning said they were down. There were a lot of local comments in Les Saisies last year that visitor spending was down, but that would mostly have been French and other European visitors (because there aren't many Brits). the restaurants weren't doing well at all,

It's hardly surprising, is it, given the strength of the euro and some daft prices in the big French resorts?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I do not know if the overall figure is down! Most people I know tend to go DIY these days! I still go 3 - 5 times a year! Only twice in the last 5 years have I used a package holiday! I assume that Crystal is suffering because their market has changed! It would be interesting to know how many times regular skiers on this site use a package in a % term in the last 5 years?

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Roy Hockley, Just the point I was about to make! In the last 5 years probably only 25% (or less) of my ski trips have been package trips.

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I'm not surprised fewer are going. Exchange rate has been very bad and at the same time those who have been lucky enough to keep jobs have had bonuses cut and pay frozen. Has so far affected the private sector more but now the public sector seems set to follow.

Lift prices in france seem to be heading for £200 in the larger ski areas..it is becoming more expensive to buy a lift pass than travel from the UK to the alps. Whereas in previous years we have bought our children the odd souvenir eg a sweatshirt in resort there is no way we were going to get one this year at a price of around 40 euros. Next year we will be even more careful when eating out having ended up in a fairly ordinary looking restaurant this time where all the main courses were priced at 20 euros. No wonder there was only one other couple in the restaurant.

As a family we still love our skiing holidays and have cut back on summer holidays in order to keep skiing. Summer hols have been downgraded from luxury family hotel to camping in our own tent.

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Well I've already booked one holiday with Crystal for next season and I'm about to potentially book another. So I'll keep the British TO market going! Very Happy

In actual fact the report states that the independent sector has fallen by more than the TO sector.

As for skiing in France, that has been off my radar for over 10 years. The last time I went there was in 2000 and it took me two years to pay off the resultant overdraft. Lesson learned.

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Boredsurfing, Has anyone got a full copy of the report? There were a number of assumptions going back over a number of years about the size of the 'Independent' market capacity that were incorrect ( mathematical errors and assumptions about growth). It would be good explore those again .. whilst TOs would have no mileage in demonstrating a major shift towards independents I cant believe that the authors would do it deliberately. A 25% fall in numbers seems a lot ... but 2009 leisure visits were down 15% according to stats so that would tie up with Winter 2009 from the stats ... so only the mix that would appear open to question?

After all it is free

The real question is whether the laws of supply and demand are going to kick in here. We have already seen the TOs dramatically cut their supply of accomodation in 09/10 to keep the prices propped up but will there be a shift in prices to try and stimulate demand again?

kosciosco, doesnt appear to be, but the clever little independents are - DIY is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much cheaper and you get so much more for your money.

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Agenterre, Its not on the net yet, previous years its come 'out' around the 20th of the month.
I guess the trade and press versions are out ahead of release.

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DIY doesn't work for everyone. And for those of us for whom it doesn't, we need a good supply of choice and value offered by TOs.

Boredsurfing, will be keeping an eye out for the full report, the pre reports tend to go for the sensational stuff, typical media response.

You know it makes sense.

I thought it was very noticeable last winter. In Les Deux Alpes at Easter, where I'd also been for the previous 3 Easters, it was far quieter than in previous years. It's not just UK TO numbers that are down but also UK DIY's and visitors from all other countries too.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Cost and the exchange rate must be a factor. Our week away in the snow seems to have gone up alot since we started going regularly in 2003. This may be due to the exchange rate over the last 2 years I expect. However, while looking for half term accomodation this season there was already a number of places I looked at fully booked a month or so ago, so it must be the out of school holiday demand that is suffering?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Don't think i've had a ski holiday that would've shown up on Crystals radar for 3 years. Doubt i'll be taking one that would count either in the near future. Think that these stats say more about the state of TO's rather than the state of the industry as a whole.

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Given the recession and the exchange rate is this really surprising at all? I would've been very surprised if it hadn't fallen by +5%

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Local restaurateurs all report poor business last winter,although the visitors were still here, and my apartment was fully booked from start to end of season. I can tell that more meals were consumed in the apartment, as I've had to replace some of the kitchen equipment.

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Exchange rate is crap and Europe is a rip off, especially France!

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After all it is free

johnboy, the actual euro prices in France have not altered that much, and in some cases have actually fallen due to a reduction in TVA on food in restaurants.
Exchange rate has also improved recently. Exchange rates for Canada and US are also far worse than they were.

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It would be interesting to know how the stats were collected, but presumably some kind of survey. There are very well established survey methods for road traffic, international arrivals/departures etc. They don't necessarily need to know each one of us took our ski holidays provided their sample methodology is sound.

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Shimmy, you are repeating a mantra that others (Paulio for instance) keep repeating about DIY being cheaper, but when pressed no-one has ever given me an example on a like for like basis that is cheaper.

As I've said before, I need 2 rooms (2 adults, 2 kids) half or chalet board in a clean, comfortable chalet or hotel with flights from Scotland and transfers during the school holidays. This festive period there are no TO flights left from Scotland, Skiworld from Manchester to Val D'Isere is £2600 with 2 half price lift passes (not included in that price). Travelling on 2 Jan.

I tried and failed to come anywhere close to that DIY, but I would love to be proved wrong.

No objection to DIY, happy to do that for 4 night boys trip (don't have much choice).

You know it makes sense.

rob@rar, The boss of Crystal is convinced that things are looking good ahead.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Boredsurfing, he always says that.

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Lizzard, He would wouldnt he Toofy Grin

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The report is being produced by Crystal so unsurprisingly shows their business in a good light compared to other operators and smaller companies. Does anyone compile a more objective report?

Also Crystal reckon that people who ski are not affected that badly by the budget. How on earth do they come to that conclusion?

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snowymum, what they seem to have done is drastically reduced the number of Thomson branded holidays and switched them to Crystal. Overall a TUI reduction but looks better.

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snowymum, because skiers are middle class types with wads of cash.

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I agree with Ghostdog as to the difficulty in matching TOs prices - especially in French resorts such as Courchevel , Val D'Isere etc .

If you take off £40 pp for the shared saving on the lift passes then his cost is £610 each.

We are also going to Val D'Isere that week - 2nd Jan - and I have to DIY . In a chalet 40m from pistes we are paying £440 pp . Plus driving cost - family of 4 , say £600 all in - we are only just below Ghostdog's price , and without any of the TO protections such as get you home when clouds of ash appear etc.

I understand the margins in the travel industry have always been low - demonstrated by the fact that the chalet we are going to was for many years run by Finlays until they ceased trading earlier this year.

John

After all it is free

Ghost Dog,

Ghost Dog, 1) Residence Les Nereides in Belle Plagne, ski in - ski out self catering apartments

2) luxury chalet La Giettaz, off the beaten track but the whole "package" and low cost makes it fantastic value for money. Self catering again but does include brekfast.

Flights to Chambery with snowjet.

Those were our last two holidays. Two adults, two kids think both were about £1500 for all four of us to include flights, transfers and accomm. EDIT: forgot - first one was in school hols...26/12/09, second was not.

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British ski market falls another 11% - Crystal Ski Report 2009/2010 (with link)

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