I'm looking for some advice on skis for mutli day touring. I'd like something that is more biased towards the downhill - I'm happy to have to work a bit harder on the uphill for more downhill enjoyment. The ski should be able to deal with most conditions - powder, slush, and death biscuits, etc.
My regular alpine ski is a Stoekli Stormrider, which, if I was being uber picky, I'd say was a touch too stiff for real fun in deep snow. It can also struggle for float in very deep stuff on shallow pitches.
My only other requirement is that the ski should be fairly easy to fit skins to.
The stats: 5'8", 70kg, 34years old, 30years of skiing.
Any advice would be gratefully received!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snow_gibbon, the most serious tourer I've skied with was about your stats (except about 20 years older) and skied on.......Stockli Stormriders . If you like the ski, but want a bit more float maybe go to something like the XXL or VXL. For something a little different, several guides I've skied with this year have been on Dynastar Mythic Riders with Dynafit bindings. Othre skis that are light for their size are Fischer Wateas and Black Diamond skis (I had the middish fat Kilowatts, good in powder and crud, less good on very hardpack)
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Yup BD range fit the bill and I too have a Mythic Rider with TLT bindings.
^This or Dynafit - take your pick for width underfoot.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
parlor, yes - whatever the ski I'll be putting dynafits on them.
After all it is free
After all it is free
snow_gibbon, think he means check out the dynafit skis - some nice ones out now and in the pipeline
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Seeing a lot of people with Scott Crusair + Dynafit and quite a few guides with K2 Hardside and Dynafit. From chatting on the lift, people seem to like the Crusair but then everyone and his cat here seems to ski on Scott.
I'm not convinced by the Missions as a tourer. I don't think they are a bad ski, I've put 100 days or so on mine but that there are lighter and straighter options out there.
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movement couloir with dynafeeet would seem a sweet setup. I've a movement thunder (granddaddy of the couloir) with tele tourers and it's great. Skinny by todays standards maybe but copes well in more or less everything
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The most important thing is LIGHT IS RIGHT. Don't be tempted with a good deal, if you want to get the most out of longer trips get light skis.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
snow_gibbon, for multi day tours you'll be doing a lot more up than down. What parlor says above about weight is worth listening too. I had Mythic Riders (4kg) with Freeride + (2kg) as a touring setup and have just changed it as while it was great on the down it's a pain lugging weight up. A small difference in weight makes a big difference in speed and enjoyment on a long tour. I think Scott Missions are a similar weight to the MR's which I reckon is too heavy. I'd be looking for under 3.5kg's paired with Dynafit bindings. After a dreadful experience with PM Gear Bro's I've just bought a pair of 176 cm Scott Crusairs. As Gorilla mentions above a few Verbier guides spoke highly of them. Also considered the wider K2 Coomba's - I think the Hardside Gorilla mentions are a bit stiffer + and a bit heavier -. The Crusairs are light, stiff and work well on steeps and in powder. I tested them on this weekend http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=62011&highlight= and liked them. I was warned to be careful going above 90mm with Dynafits. I was skiing the warped, delaminating bro's (99mm) this weekend http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=63677&highlight= and they were a bit of a pain in the skin tracks and gripping on steep pitches so I reckon it's sound advice. Although Dynafit have just released a 105mm ski - the Stoked - which may be worth a look. This independent site is great for reviews of Dynafit and other touring gear. http://www.wildsnow.com/2790/dynafit-stoke-ski-review/
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
OT - Sorry, I couldn't resist - I love the idea of snow_gibbon, and gorilla, chatting to each other on the same thread
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks for all the advice. It sounds like the Crusairs might be the winner.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
snow_gibbon, I've only skied the Missions for a couple of hours, but I agree with gorilla that they're more shaped than I would like for touring. When you get on a traverse you want a fairly straight ski to get the ski edge to hold along its full length - with a very shaped ski it tends to hold only at tip and tail and the middle has to sag down a lot before it engages with the hillside. I personally am happiest with something in the mid-20m radius. As for the weight issue, yes light is right, but how light that needs to be depends on who you're going to be out with. If you're only going to be with "normal" people, you don't really need to go super light, and would be happy with something in the high 3.x kg range. I did the Haute Route and Grand Paradiso on Legend 8000s (78mm, 3.5kg), and did a week long tour last year on my Kilowatts (95mm, 3.8kg) - both with Fritschi Freerides ( I weigh about 90kg). I wasn't the fastest, but wasn't the slowest either, but 400m/hr is about my limit, and those gave me the ski performance I was after. One day trip this year we were well outstripped by a couple of guys on superlight Trabs, but watching their antics skiing back down confirmed that sticking with a proper ski was well worth the extra effort going uphill. If you're going to have to keep up with super-fit mountain goats though, you will need to look for something lighter. Now I'm on Mantras (4.2kg) I probably do need something lighter for longer tours (only did day tours <800m this year). At your weight you should be able to cope well enough with something in the low to mid 80mm width, so there should be a good few than get in that weight range. The Cruisairs are obviously designed for the free-rando market, but they're still a bit more shaped than I would like. DB does a fair bit of touring, and I think he's on Volkl SnowWolfs - it may be worth dropping him a PM and getting his advice.
According to the topsheet they weigh a mere 1.4kg each. The profile is 112-82-102mm and the radius is 25m. They were mounted with Dynafit Vertical ST bindings with brakes. And he certainly didn't bounce all over the place going downhill on them!
He recommends we buy something in the mid-80s underfoot and with a sidecut of something over 20m. As has been mentioned before, too curvy and they're difficult to traverse and also more difficult to handle in crusty snow.
I'm currently running round on Line Darkside Carbon's (1.55kg each, 73mm underfoot) mounted with Fritschi Freerides. They work fine for me. When I get my boots sorted, I've some G3 Ace's (1.57kg each, 116-81-104mm) and some Dynafit bindings ready to fit to each other.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snow_gibbon,
Just my 2 euro cent .....
If you were living in a resort and could pick the days you skin I'd point you towards a wide (85mm+ waist) ski so you can have a lot of fun on the powder days. From your location I'd expect you will be booking weeks in advance and with regards the weather / snow conditions it will be a case of dealing with what you get. Looking at your stats an allrounder would typically be 75mm to 85 mm waist. Unless they are super hightech (and expensive e.g. DPS Wailer 95, carbon/Nano) for a wider ski you will probably either pay with high weight or lower performance.
Here are a few tests in German (take any tests with a kilo of salt )
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snow_gibbon, 176 Crusair is 3280g the pair. Very light for a high performing freeride ski. It is now available for approx £/Euro 500 in the sales eg Telemark Pyrenees/Skibartlett. GrahamN correctly points out that it is quite shaped compared to an out and out touring ski but fits well your stated preference for downhill performance. Here are a few relevant interweb links reviews if you're interested...
Includes the following response to questions from the Scott designer....
My Name is Hervé I take care of SCOTT skis since 10 years as the product manager.
CRUSAIR is a project ski for freeride mountaineering programm .
This combines an ease of hike because of the weight and dimention and a huge capacity of ski in hard steep couloir big snow and all condition possible off pist in the mountain.
Its not a stiff ski
Its not a specific ski
It’s a versatile performance ski for all terrains and condition.
I developed that ski last season with collabvoration of mountain guides group alpine ( 10 guides in 5 Europeen countries) at list I did a guide ski which allows all type of snow and terrainm without compromises.
With 1600 g this is not a super light hiking ski ; I wouldn’t do a fledge for hiking but more a true steep skiing weapon.
During development the validation of that ski last season was done through my group of guides + few extreme skliers alpinists and climbers.
We agreed that the CRUSAIR is 100% a new concept between mountaineering and freeride.
Its forgiveness and stability in steep slopes ( north face Aiguille du Midi or North East Les Courtes Brenva eperon in Chamonix massif ) proved that the CRUSAIR is well born and fits well into the target.
Have a good ride,
With kind regards,
Hervé
altis mentioned the Altitrail Powder. This is being replaced by the Mythic Light, same shape but lower weight version of the Mythic Rider. In the link above to the weekend where I tested the Crusairs the guide was using the Mythic Lights and spoke highly of them (although he designed them...). If you can wait until next year and are willing to pay full price (approx Euro 600) they are worth a look.
It all depends on how fit you are (in relation to the other people in the touring group) but I'd suggest for multiday tours a maximum weight of around 1750 gram per ski with dynafits and around 1400 gram with freerides, naxo etc.
Personally I'm not too keen to shell out a massive amount on carbon skis as one bad tour can kill them and you might have to replace skis and skins (esp if skins are trimmed to match the ski). Most of the people in our touring group have at least two pairs of touring skis and we fish out the old ones for bad conditions.
guess it's easy enough to pull out an edge on a rock etc. that said i've done quite a few multi-day tours and plenty of trips which require a bushwhack/slither down a footpath/road etc at the end and never managed to kill a ski. taken a bit of flesh out maybe... i'm not too precious about the bases of my skis but i do subscribe to the idea that you do less damage by running straight over a rock than by trying and failing to stop before you hit it...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
bobinch wrote:
DB wrote:
one bad tour can kill them
Hi DB, can you elaborate on this? One "bad tour" means lack of snow? Hard, icy conditions? Something else?
Normally lack of snow. In a resort you can take another route, turn back etc but when touring (esp multiday) you don't always have that option. In most cases an unpisted route down has to be taken. Touring skis are generally light and so less robust than 'normal' skis. Carbon skis have had durability issues in the past (e.g. goode) and tend to be expensive (ca €1000 e.g. DPS Wailer 95 Pure = 1.55kg per ski @ over $1000 or 1.9 kg per ski, hybrid model for ca $680). A wood core is easier to repair, lightweight foam cores etc are more likely to be killed by coreshoots.
As an example I'm running two pairs of Volkl Snowwolfs (new model= Völkl Mauja http://www.testberichte.de/a/ski/magazin/bergsteiger-12-2009/186279.html). During low snow levels towards the end of one tour we skied down a forest track that had a fresh covering of snow. I was first down and found out that there was gravel under the fresh snow, almost ripped the edges out. I was miffed enough without it being a pair of expensive carbon skis. Fortunately I picked up a second pair at less than half price as they had been replaced by the new model so I didn't have to shell out for new skins as well.
Just to add ..... a lot of skis have special skin attachment methods and are trimmed, these are great until you need to replace the ski when the skins are still in good nick. Sometimes a more universal standard method of skin fitting with adjustment to fit different skis is better.
After all it is free
After all it is free
DB, I'm no expert on ski construction but the Crusair appears to be a wood core with carbon reinforcement - not sure if that improves durability:
The Crusair is built with a unique chassis in 3D carbon offering perfect longitudinal flex and lateral torsion in all conditions, however extreme. The air channels and wood-sandwich construction makes the Crusair exceptionally light, stable and reactive.
Appreciate that sometimes you get surprised at what's underneath but you can usually see when the snow is thin and have the option to take skis off and walk when confronted by lack of snow - one of the benefits of boots with Vibram and walk mode!
Crusairs have arrived and are 1650g each. Will mount them up on Friday and be putting them through their paces in Verbier at the weekend.
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Quote:
I'm looking for some advice on skis for mutli day touring. I'd like something that is more biased towards the downhill - I'm happy to have to work a bit harder on the uphill for more downhill enjoyment. The ski should be able to deal with most conditions - powder, slush, and death biscuits, etc.
K2 Coomback (102mm) or perhaps next years Movemement Jackal (105mm) ?
Both of them very light for the size but also wide / stiff enough to enjoy the descent.
Plus way cheaper than the DPS (which is a very nice ski!).
With dynafit binders they would work for multi day - assuming your fit enough for the uphills!
If you want something narrower then the Movement Couloir (89mm) is a good option.
Its basically a lighter touring version of the Thunder.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 15-04-10 10:28; edited 1 time in total
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worth pointing out that DPS are wood core also but use carbon instead of fibreglass or metal to stiffen them up
goode, i believe, are pure carbon (with some foam to fill the void in the core of the ski) so even lighter but supposedly more prone to breaking
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Arno, I've bitten the bullet and pre-ordered the 105 Wailer for next season. They are already an incentive to improve fitness levels (and skiing ability!).
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
zammo, nice one - hope you like em
i find they make skiing easy so you probably don't need to worry too much about improving your ability!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
bobinch,
Seen the Crusair receive great reviews from different sources and yes they look to be wood core so should be OK. Just wanted to point out that some superlight skis are very fragile and/or low performance. Trashing your skis on a multiday tour could end your tour and leave you with a big replacement ski cost. Best to be on a ski that can take a few knocks and be repaired.
Arno,
Yes DPS do look to be much better constructed than earlier carbon touring skis although for me I would only consider then as a good condition / powder day ski for the quiver. The standard version is 1.9 kg per ski which for me on a multiday tour is a bit too heavy. The lighter version is great @ 1.55 kg per ski but costs 50% more. Maybe for a UK resident it would be worth leaving them at home and renting if conditions are really bad. Carriage saved could help to pay for touring ski rental cost.
Quote:
DPS Pure skis are the product of four years of intense development and engineering. It’s a ski that is truly unique and that feels unlike anything else made; a ski that actually makes you rip harder because it produces more power, is more reactive, and weighs less than traditional skis. Pure skis also have a practically infinite flex life, and don't break down like normal glass skis- endowing them with immense value.
While 99.9% of the skis available on the market are built using fiberglass and/or metal (aluminum). The prepreg carbon and nano resins used in all DPS skis have twice the strength of fiberglass (3 times the strength of aluminum) while weighing half as much.
Carbon skis are the future. Once most people experience the power of a carbon ride, few go back to conventional builds.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB, obviously no single answer for everyone - in fact starting touring can be a world of pain for your wallet as you endlessly tweak your setup in pursuit of the ultimate combination of easy climbing and downhill performance (or maybe that's just me )
for me lightweight dedicated touring skis are not the answer because i want to enjoy the ski down and i'm a pretty big guy so would overpower them in some situations. my previous set-up of bilzzard titan 9s with dyanfits was actually a pretty good combo from this point of view although the skis were significantly narrower and shorter than the DPS while weighing a little more
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Arno,
Yes the search for the holy grail of touring skis has cost me too and heavier tourers don't have it any easier. What suits us may not suit snow_gibbon although my stats are virtually the same as snow_gibbon. We would probably get at least as much float out of an 85mm wide ski as you would from a 95mm wide ski. If money was no object the lightweight DPS Wailer 95 would be a great choice. IMHO the crusair or something sub 1750 gram per ski would be better than the heavier DPS Wailer 95 for multiday tours.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
agreed - the DPS hybrids (ie heavier construction) look nice for lift served skiing with a bit of skinning but probably no better than lots of other things for longer tours
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What about the Movement logic. Great combination of weight and stiffness for a dedicated touring ski.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
22 dropout wrote:
What about the Movement logic. Great combination of weight and stiffness for a dedicated touring ski.
Came second (to the Stöckli Sport Stormrider Light 09/10) in this german test. It was the best ski in the test for powder, for such a low weight per surface area I'd guess that this ski is soft.
The test winner (Stöckli Sport Stormrider Light 09/10), Stöckli Stormrider Pit Pro II or ski tipped as the best allrounder (Völkl Mauja 09/10) would IMHO probably suit snow_gibbon better than the Movement logic for multiday tours. To summarize a sub 1.4 kg (per ski) for a 88mm waisted ski or sub 1.6kg per ski for a 95mm waisted ski is extremely light. Unless they are made of some super strong yet lightweight material (read expensive eg DPS Wailer 95 Pure) their performance will likely be compromized esp when conditions are hard. A narrower ski of the same weight will be stronger/stiffer. Don't forget that you will be carrying extra weight (esp on a multiday trip) which will make it even easier to overpower the skis. I'd go for around 1.4 kg per ski for ca 75mm waist or up to 1.7kg for ca 90 mm waist (unless it's super light, strong and high tech expensive). As I said before it's all relative to your fitness against the groups fitness. (e.g. Guides will be able to go for 2+ kg skis yet still leave you well behind on skin up). If you go for a heavier ski get yourself fitter for best results.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 19-04-10 14:17; edited 1 time in total
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. If you like the ski, but want a bit more float maybe go to something like the XXL or VXL. For something a little different, several guides I've skied with this year have been on 
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