Whitedot Redeemer review

A snowHead

Having had the chance to ski on these for a reasonable number of days this season I thought I'd chuck up a review for those interested.

Length 190
Tester Fat bloke, non BASI skilled, brute force and ignorance style over finesse, ski anywhere on the mountain provided no mandatory hucks.
Testing conditions: Variable 30cm+ powder days downwards to 3rd day left over crud and Spring corned groomers.
Other rockered skis tested - not a lot, Hellbents indoors

How do they ski?

Like a snowboard. No, seriously that's my best analogy - you can forget about having special powder technique and just ski them then use the instant pivot to bail yourself out of trouble when headed for a tree or rockwall etc.

Aren't you just on the surface?

Nope you still ski in 3D, particularly if you've got a bit of weight on them, but they do make deep snow feel more like a particularly cushy groomer (this is not a bad thing). They can make a couple of inches a good laugh.

Anything special?

You can do all sorts of fun things on them like the powerslide sideslip and the instant hockey stop pivot. I found myself doing tail wheelies on shallow slopes for the heck of it.

What about groomers?

they have a regular sidecut under foot so you can ski them like a regular, even fairly short ski. Straightrunning on cattracks is interesting - because of the width and my personal biomechanics I found it was easier to run them on both inside edge (a sort of parallel snowplough). On soft corn they absolutely ripped it up, soft snow fine,

Spring refrozen boilerplate groomer/crud - how's your dental insurance?

Any drawbacks?

Tip/tail flap at speed on hardpack. There are better mogul skis (although rocker is a big help in the bumps - enough to have fun)

What's your summary?

FUN. If you ski a reasonable number of soft snow days then a ski like this may deserve a place in your quiver

Is it the fattest in the liftline/chairlift?

You're kidding. I sat next to a guy on Kuros and felt positively svelte.

Is it as good a powder ski as Mr Murdoch's Race Room Dobermann SLs?

No. No ski can ever be as good in powder as those.

Any other thoughts?

Would like to see a scaled down version (with less tail rocker ) in 100mm ish as it could be an interesting all mountain shape I think and could do well for a more mass market. 190cm is not really very long in a ski with this much rocker so people shouldn't be intimidated, reluctant to try them.

A snowHead

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kiwi1, welcome back from the land down under.

fatbob, get some!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I've been on these for about a week now. Thankfully the snow gods have cooperated and provided lots of fresh snow.

All in all I really love the ski these are my thoughts of it in a variety of conditions.

With dimensions of 138-142/128/132-128 this ski is like a cross between a reverse side cut and a normal side cut ski. Most of their width is in the mid section where there is a slight normal side-cut (27 M radius) along the 1 metre effective edge of the ski. The narrower tips and tails are fully rockered. This results in a ski that feels a lot shorter than its 190cm and is exceptionally easy to steer but is in no way hooky in powder or soft snow.

Not surprisingly these skis are at their best in powder. But are really really good in all soft snow conditions. In powder it floats like a cork and encourages a nice centred stance you can lean as far forward as you like without sinking the tips. It feels like most of the float is under foot (where most of the width is) and the rocker really makes it want to plane and stay on top of the snow. You don't need to charge to make it plane but it is so stable you will really feel like letting it run.

In wind blown and heavy snow it performs very well. It does not throw up any surprises. Its float and lack of hookyness make it a very forgiving in these conditions. Where with stiff regular cambered skis I often get high sided if I don't adapt well enough these make it easy.
As the temperatures warm in Verbier I have had plenty of opportunity to ski in slush lower down at the end on the day. Again in these conditions the float, easy steering, stability and non-hooky nature of these skis was much appreciated.

There is a run I have been doing a few times this week which has good powder up top but lower down is pretty rough dust on crust. I found the rocker particularly useful here for riding over the burried crap. Likewise shallow burried moguls were a blast. In these conditions I really found it best to let them run and ride out these bits. Attempts to ski defensively and skid and slip on such conditions on a big fat ski is not rewarded.

I found my self just turning and steering these skis on slopes I often jump turn on with other skis and when in tight spots again found it very easy to just pivot them get into a better position.

Where I liked it best is in the trees (this is probably where I like skiing best anyway) it allowed me to take nice lines jump off pillows and put in quick turns as dictated by the forest. This time of year the powder below the treeline is obviously not as good as in the bowls at the top of the mountain (it was still ok) so for me the best is yet to come on this ski.

It is quite stiff and very stable it will chatter a bit on rough hard pack, but hey, its a very fat rockered ski.
On piste it holds a good edge and will carve turns surprisingly well. I did smile the whole way down the first groomer i skied on them.

Its a big ski with a big pair in the underpants department but also has a big heart and really is easy to ski. An awesome powder ski, awesome in all kinds of soft snow and more than acceptable on piste when required.
Well done Whitedot.
snowHead

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we aim to please. Very Happy

we are tweaking the redeemer next year. giving it a slightly fatter edge (2.5mm) and a slightly thicker base (1.2mm) seems huckers want these small changes. wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Where did you mount 'em, FS or FR, just for reference you know!

After all it is free · Last edited by After all it is free on Thu 1-04-10 8:25; edited 1 time in total

the_doc, riders who really charge like them on FR or BC jibbers like Ally like them on BCJ, for me I think 1cm in front of FR is perfect. Knowing that you do a bit of back country jibbing but still rip the whole mountain, I'd go 2cm in frount of FR for you.

Mine are mounted 2cm infront of freeride.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

As crazy as this might sound, I tested the Redeemers and Preachers about two weeks ago at Chamonix (Thank You Fall Line Bootfitting!) in conditions completely outside their design specs of soft, 3D snow. The day I managed to get to Grand Montets it was firm, wind-buffed, hardened chalk-like surface with wind-sheets and general surfaces unkind to rockered skis like the Redeemer. It would have been an epic day for carving on GS skis or race-carve skis...but noooooo, I had to take the wrong skis out in the wrong conditions....not too intelligent you say?...well...

(2009-2010 Redeemers next to 2010-2011 Preachers with new graphics)

The Redeemers showed their compliance and good design specs by being completely predictable and controlled on hard surfaces. The pair I was on had not been tuned for hard snow, and had plenty of days of usage, so they were a bit base-high and dull (by carvng ski standards). Soooo, I had a pair of base-high, dull, rockered fat skis on windbuffed hardpack and groomed frontside trails. The Redeemers showed excellent manners for a big ski in "drift mode" on the hard surfaces. Controlled drifting was the name of the game, and they held up just fine. Given a few runs, I figured out you could really go anywhere without any concern (other than an iced-down racecourse or Eastern USA boilerplate surfaces), just roll them up on edge gradually, pressure them consistently and they would change direction on-demand and were nicely damping out high-frequency vibrations. While they are not a trench-digging carving weapon for hard snow, they demonstrated a very nice degree of consistent behavior and security. At no time did they ever "let go" or "wash out" unexpectedly like some rockered fat skis. Very civilized behavior for being completely out of their element. If I had a chance to get them base-ground and tune them to perhaps 0.5-0.75 degree base and 2 degrees side bevel, with detuned rocker sections (prevent hookiness in firm 3D snow or crust), I think they would have been impressively grippy on the hard snow. The Preachers I tried were naturally grippier due to the conventional camber, but they too had quite a few days of soft-snow use and needed a tune (who tunes their soft snow skis anyway?), but were very, very respectable on the hard surfaces. I had previously tried the Preachers with a much better tune, and they immediately impressed me with their grip on the groomers.

Bottom line, the Redeemers are versatile - more than you might think. Good job White Dot (and Kiwi1) in not messing with a good design for next year. The minor changes you mentioned are just fine. I look forward to trying the new charging ski to see how it handles!

(Redeemer Rocker Tips)

(Redeemer Rocker Tails)

(Redeemers at rest)

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liking the preacher 11 graphics....

snow reports

pretty sweet huh! Cheers for the mounting tips guys, thinking Schizo so I can centre them but still having the option to move 'em back!

You know it makes sense.

I also skiied the Redeemers over last weekend in Chamonix. First off, a huge thanks to the guys in fall line bootfitting who really went out of their way to hook me up with the demo set.

The forecast was for a fair amount of fresh powder but most of what was around was fairly well tracked by the time i got to it. The skis were a 190 but didnt seem to be any trickier than my 174 coombas, they are however much heavier, if you're spending most of the day muscling them around in cut up snow you will know about it by the end of the day!

They did cope very well with everything i could throw at them though, steep moguls, cut up deep snow, windblown crust, and the occasional bit of hardpack and ice. Just before lunch I hiked for some turns in the fresh and thats where these things really come into their own. They really want to charge and encourage you to stand up and forwards and really drive the turns. Strangely the steeper it gets the more they seem to excel and as described above when your bottle runs out you can always pivot/smear a turn to scrub off some speed.

As a side note they also seem to be built very well and will take the knocks with ease. Overall an awesome set of skis that encourage you to really power down the hill and will undoubtely extend most peoples off piste skills.

Cheers

Mark

PS If you're interested in a comparison to other skis please see the thread "pure powder skis"

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hi Mark, sounds like you enjoyed the skis! Just for the record think the weight might have been the demo bindings, my Red's are not much heavier than my park skis!!

A snowHead

I previously wrote I had em in the trees in what was effectively dust on crust.
had em in the trees in decent snow this week, really really good, turns on demand lots of fun. Very Happy

Hopefully I'll give Bobinch a run on them tomoro

A snowHead

Now if there was a really great deal on these or the 2010-11 model, I could see a quiver gap Smile

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That was a hint to any watching whitedot folks btw Wink

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stoatsbrother, we have 2 pairs of Redeemers left in stock of this season Graphics. Give me a call on 07971 471306 and i'll sort you deal wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

kiwi1, in Alta at the moment with so much new snow we have been herded to safer areas of the lodge while they blast the road.

Will give you a bell on my return.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

exoticskis, Yep - IMO the 2011s look quite a lot less distinctive e.g. like some of the "tribal" Fischers etc. The original graphics make for a pretty distinct visual identity and do attract comments and curiosity.

After all it is free

rob@rar, black crows navis?

okbye

for those guys who skied Redeemers last year were they your only ski or a 2nd set for powder/slush days?

I have some 179 High Society freerides, which are 98cm underfoot (I think), I am considering (spurred on by the universal insert thread) getting something like the Redeemers for off piste days, and keeping the HS FRs for when I ski with family and only do stuff closish to where they are skiing, or ski with them...

Or do I go something 110ish underfoot like a Preacher?

Cheers,

Greg

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kitenski, have you considered the option of having both the Preacher and the Redeemer? Toofy Grin

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Zero-G, yes but that would mean more money, there is nowt wrong with the HS FRs, so I am aiming to keep them and supplement with something wider....(I think)

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Although they are more versatile than they look I think I'd be a bit reluctant to try to use the Redeemer as a daily driver. Hard bumps and very hard packed pistes would be challenges in Europe. I'm firmly of the view that something 110ish can be used everywhere however.

kitenski, the Redeemers are definitely a quiver ski for the better snow days. Wouldn't have them purely for all off piste. Go with the Preacher if you want whitedot. In saying that you probably should just buy both.

You know it makes sense.

kitenski, your FR's are 92mm underfoot. FR's + Redeemers + inserts to both + Duke's = Cool

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

kitenski, I find them very 'useable'. Apart from getting used to the width I thought they skied well on hard compacted off piste and about the bumps. It just took a little while to be comfortable with the width and I don't know if my knees would like me skiing them regularly.

A snowHead

scotia, Cheers, what kind of conditions, places have you skied on them? Have you used them in Scotland at all?

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kitenski, only Scotland. Do you know Glencoe?

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scotia, yup, my favourite Scottish ski area, although I've only ever skied marked runs there, although flypaper and spring run didn't appear to be groomed last time I was there and the wind was refilling in any tracks!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

kitenski,

I've only had them out once but could have taken them a few times last season. The snow was down to the carpark so they did the full vert and managed OK. Still think I'd have something in the 110 mark for all off piste conditions. I had them in the Rockies for a week and I didn't get them out because there wasn't any fresh snow so I skied the Ones all week.

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Strange question, but in powder do you still get faceshots, or are you properly on top of the snow? I do like the look of the Redeemer, but I think a 128mm ski might float my 68ishkg more than I really want*..?

*If that makes any sense at all?!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

kitenski, get the wide ones. Don't get a sensible compromise ski that might be a bit better on hardpack. Who cares about hardpack?

After all it is free

clarky999, 180 Redeemer for you my friend

clarky999, I think I am about 70 kilos and happy with the 190s but there aren't many trees to ski through in Scotland.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

clarky999, I think Dot. meant the 180 Weedeemer

(Already have my coat!)

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