 Poster: A snowHead
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After a chaotic start to January, British Tour Operators have threatened to pull out of Chambery unless the airport raises its game and steps up to the mark. Guests waited for hours for a flight, some spent 3 days in hotels and others had to be bussed to Milan...
John Garland, representing Ski World claims that Tour Operators who use Chambery are 3 million euros out of pocket after having 6500 guests stuck at the airport.
| Quote: |
| "I would like to believe this was exception but every year it is the same old, same old with problems linked to fog. Chambery isn't equipped with an automatic guidance system. We are seriously askng ourselves if we shouldn't look for an airport which is up to the job for our 13,000 clients for next year." |
With a gallic shrug local politicians dismissed the Tour Operator's worries citing "exteme weather" and saying it was no better at Lyon or Geneva. The airport has had 20 million of investment over the last five years but a guidance system is not on the cards because "tour operator planes and pilots are not equipped to use the system". They blaimed a frozen runway which was impossible to clear.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Now the new bypass has been built on the road from Geneva to Annecy I don't understand why the TO's take the risk of Chambery?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maybe it's a lot cheaper to fly in/out of Chambery than Geneva?
also the transfer is still an hour or so shorter (if you can actually land/take off!)
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| davidof wrote: |
John Garland, representing Ski World claims that ...
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| "I would like to believe this was exception but every year it is the same old, same old with problems linked to fog..." |
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This quote is clearly defective, unless Mr Garland was so angry that he could only repeat the same old adjectives without nouns.
What kind of problems (excluding pea soup) are linked to fog?
Maybe he meant "same old problems linked to frog", given the location.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ernst Goldsmith, 
You missed the recent discussion here of the difficulties of the approach to Chambery - and the necessary minima for different aircraft?
and "same old same old" is in the Cambridge Dictionary of Idioms (2006).
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stoatsbrother, mmm, that sounds like a fun reference book I don't have. A virtual trip to Amazon is coming over me... I've had hours of innocent pleasure with the last reference book you recommended. 
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I frequently wonder whether Ernst Goldsmith has missed his vocation as a High Court Judge. I can quite comfortably imagine him enquiring in a somewhat bemused manner "What is a Beatle?"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, great. I loved the first review! 
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| and "same old same old" is in the Cambridge Dictionary of Idioms (2006). |
How come Cambridge publish this sort of nonsense, while Oxford actually tell us something useful?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ernst Goldsmith, Being an alumnus of the latter, I would love to agree.
However - as OUP are responsible for "Wobble Bear Gets Busy" I feel you may be overstating your case... 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Ernst Goldsmith wrote: |
| What kind of problems (excluding pea soup) are linked to fog? |
Lack of visibility? 
I imagine it is quite hard to land a plane when you can't see and don't have the guidance systems
Unless of course you are one of the pilots that can fly into Chambery and are so skilled you could do it in fog? Most people struggle to drive at normal speeds in fog, never mind land large aircraft at what is already an awkward place to land.
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Sorry for any mistranslations David. I heard the report on the car radio and was transcribing from memory what was said.
Chambery (like Geneva) suffers from lake fogs rolling in. They might do better developing Annecy which is at least on a hill and would have the capacity for charters and is close to the autoroute. Chambery also suffers from windshear problems due to the configuration.
As I recall Geneva is already operating over capacity. Grenoble is also at capacity according to the latest information from the Conseil General.
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You know it makes sense.
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The best answer is to stop the absurd bunching of traffic on Saturdays and Sundays. Last time I landed at Chambery on a Tuesday I was switching on my car ignition (in the free car park) within five minutes of landing. The roads suffer from the same problems - very inefficient use of resources all round. TOs often offer flexible or 10 day holidays to N American destinations; why so rigid, still, about Europe?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, I suppose the travel time to the east coast of USA/Canada requires extra days to make it all worth while, plus there is the jet lag to get over. Surprised that TOs do not stagger some of their packages though with more of a mixture of wed to wed for example (or even other days) rather than mainly having weekend travel days
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Poster: A snowHead
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is it just me or do weekend to weekends still make most efficient use of precious holiday time?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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davidof, yes, less days of work for the punter
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 19-01-10 9:38; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, Damn right, even when I do north america it's always a two-week trip, travelling at weekends
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well I rarely managed to use all my paid leave when I was working, and I'd rather "pay" an extra day's holiday time than spend hours and hours in crowded airports. And anyway, why don't we just become far more flexible about weekends? Many occupations require people to work weekends (e.g. health professionals, hairdressers, bus drivers) so if all those people not wedded to "The Weekend" could take their holidays Tuesday/Tuesday or Tuesday/Thursday or Thursday/Monday then the people who stick rigidly to weekends would have a bit more space!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, I have only been boarding for a short while and I was amazed that the ski holiday and accommodation system was so rigid, with France more so than other countries ?
When you only have 20 days holiday a year, every day is precious 
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pam w, That works fine, apart from most accommodation runs Sat- Sat.
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[quote="pam w"]well I rarely managed to use all my paid leave when I was working[quote]
lucky you!
My 20 days are spent easily enough!
Each day taken requires careful consideration... so week-end to week-end is indeed the most efficient for me..
or days each side of a bank holiday, etc..
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Spyderman, If a TO has taken on a chalet or hotel for the season I supoose they could run it as they like, Wed to Wed all season would not be an issue in that case ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We have sometimes asked people who stay in our chalet if they would like to stay other than Saturday to Saturday and they always say no - which does indeed add to the pressure on the roads, airports, ability to get cleaners on a Saturday etc etc. I discussed this with our daughter at Christmas as she is staying here in the summer, would she not prefer Tuesday to Tuesday or the like, - no was the answer as weekend travelling uses less holiday allowance.
And I remember well when last working that even with 25 days holiday each one was carefully counted and considered.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| Spyderman, If a TO has taken on a chalet or hotel for the season I supoose they could run it as they like, Wed to Wed all season would not be an issue in that case ? |
True, Summer holiday packages tend to be weekday changeovers far more than ski. Ski holidays fit in with ski school course weeks too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| davidof wrote: |
| is it just me or do weekend to weekends still make most efficient use of precious holiday time? |
Absolutely. If you work a "standard" 5 day week, then with weekend changeovers you get a week's holiday for 5 days leave, while you will almost always need 6 days for a midweek changeover.
For some reason, most smallish continental airports seem to have just one or two days a week when charter flights operate, and those are the de facto "standard" changeover days for nearby accommodations. For ski destinations, these are usually Saturday or Sunday. "Sun" destinations are more often midweek - Crete for instance is a Tuesday, although there are a few Saturday flights as well.
It may be inefficient use of the roads, but it is much more efficient for accommodation owners who normally prefer to let by the week, and it is much more efficient for TOs who only have to have reps on airport duty one or two days per week, and who can combine flights into transfers to make sure most transfer buses are full.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
For some reason, most smallish continental airports seem to have just one or two days a week when charter flights operate |
I used to work with Chambery when it was a bit smaller than today and on a Friday night when they had a lot of flights scheduled the airport director would tour the local bars looking for people who wanted to work a Saturday shift for cash as a "chucker" or "fireman" or general helper. I guess a lot of locals are free at the weekend and can do with the extra cash.
The airport has around 250K passengers a year now so probably has a full time roster of staff.
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And let's not forget availability of transfer buses. I understand the ones the TOs use on Sats & Suns are often on the school runs weekdays.
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You know it makes sense.
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Few years back I did a mid-week indie holiday via Chambery from S'ton. No probs at all. But it wasn't so easy to get the hotel in Peisey to agree to an unusual booking - even though they had rooms free.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It serves the TOs right for making everyone use their charter flights instead of offering rail options...I am thinking particularly of the child friendly companies.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Dubaian, I suppose that is because the vast majority use the weekend change over and the hotel then is using a two week period, unless they are empty for both weeks!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I work a job in which weekends are irrelevant - I work Saturdays and Sundays more than 'weekdays' - and maybe the concept of weekends should be scrapped. Weekends exist primarily for social reasons I guess, but some sectors of the economy (retail, entertainment etc) are very busy at weekends ... to cater for those who have days off!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Weekends exist primarily for social reasons
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And for playing hockey of course
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not lucky at all - but very hard working...... There's nothing lucky about having to forego leave.
All these arguments are circular. We have to go on Saturdays because that's when the accommodation starts. We have to go on Saturdays because that's when the buses go. In the US, where people have FAR less paid leave than we lazy europeans, holidays of any duration are routine.
The French cut off their noses to spite their faces. Most apartments, in most resorts, are empty for most weeks of the year and apartment owners (and hotels) will routinely refuse anything other than a full week's let, even when they are almost empty! That's not efficient, it's just cussed.
Things are changing - more and more apartment owners (including some snowheads) do flexible lets, and we get heaps of posts from people who have found cheap flights mid-week and are looking for accommodation. A few poor seasons will maybe make for some more creative thinking.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
cheap flights mid-week
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Would then be a thing of the past
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Boredsurfing, Flying in March (but into Geneva) as for 2 of us driving just wasn't worth it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have a trip to Tignes each December for a week. In 2009 I was stuck at Chambery because of fog for best part of 12 hours before eventually being bussed to Grenoble to catch my flight. In 2010 it was a 7 hour wait with the inbound flight diverted to Lyon because Chambery could not open its runway because of ice. We sat in the restaurant all day watching as what seemed like a fairly inadequate small crop sprayer type of device was towed up and down the runway. It did not seem like an adequate performance for an Alpine airport. The captain was fairly damning in his comments over the PA when the plane was eventually able to land and take u back to the UK
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We have done non standard ski holidays for 3 or 4 years for one reason or another, and it is universally a nightmare. Either its hard to find accomodation, or they charge you for the nights of a week you don't take as well as those that you do, or its impossible to get ski lessons as they all start sun/mon, the list is endless! France was particularly difficult on ski lessons, Austria on accommodation, although we did find some accommodation, we never managed to get any ski lessons in Morzine last year, until the Sat when we paid a ridiculous amount of money for private lessons.
Factor in the fact that many airlines only operate flights to ski resorts at the weekend, and this year we have finally been compelled to conform to the Sat to Sat thing. I'm hoping life will be easier!
I do get 35 days annual leave tho! 
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