La Grave/Alpe d'Huez Guides?

A snowHead

Really want to find my freeride feet this season and want to head over to La Grave a few times. I've seen the local La Grave guides have a day rate of around 80-90 euros (as long as you get in a group of 4) which I could stretch to, but I'm staying in Alpe d'Huez and was wondering if there are any independant guides (still qualified though!) who might be cheaper? I'll obviously find out more when I arrive in resort (less than a week) but untill then anyone got any experience of the place?

Not wanting to attempt any ledendary routes on my first visit, more a case of riding the area to see if I could cope on the techy routes. Have rode with harness and transeivers before but don't own any so these need to be included in the price.

Thanks!

A snowHead

That's about the going rate for a day with a guide
Are you there for the full season? Unless there is a lot of early snow, I'd leave it until the New Year at the earliest before heading over to LG
Lots of legendary routes in ADH with fewer people skiing them so make sure you have a poke around there!

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Yes, I'm there for the season and have been reading about some great options in Alpe d'Huez (being picked up in a heli has caught my eye) but having seen some videos of La Grave it looks truely mindblowing! Hoping to have some sort of guided expedition once a month (or more in Feb to get away from the crouds) but as TO's don't shower you in cash have got to budget for these in advance. Any British guides in the area or recommended French guides?

Always had my freeride trips organised for me, is it quite easy to attach yourself to another group?

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Discounting the 'legendary' routes at La Grave, I would rather spend my money on a guide in Alp d'huez. La Grave is great but the main routes you would most likely get taken down will normally be bump fields for the most part. As Arno mentions the routes are ADH are less frequented so a better chance of good snow.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Ok, you've won me over. Guess I'll save the bus fare over there and use it towards getting a good book on the routes of ADH! However any more opinions?

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I recommend Manu Lestienne at La Grave. Great guide and great company. Contact details here.

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manicpb, if i were you i'd get a day or two of guiding early doors and tell the guide you want educating about travelling off piste. this will help you to start exploring on your own

also check out what resorts offer for free. i am pretty sure LG used to have a few days in January where there were free avalanche safety lessons with local guides. these were "practical" in the sense that you went out on the mountain to do them so that would be a cheap way of getting some good skiing and education in

the classic routes in LG are pretty obvious as scottishskier says so long as you don't get tempted to "see where those two tracks are heading off to". most likely they will be heading somewhere steep and/or requiring mountaineering kit. go there a few days after the last snowfall and follow the moguls and you'll be fine

as someone starting out with "mountain skiing", ADH may have more to offer but you do need to be happy putting in the odd 20 minute walk and it's big routes are less obvious because fewer people do them. ducking the rope at the top of the Pic Blanc feels pretty adventurous the first time you do it! the only problem with the quietness of ADH's offpiste is finding people to ski it with. i did a season in that area and skied ADH most of the time. I wasn't in ADH itself so didn't really get into the "scene" there but certainly got the impression that most workers were there for drinking and sliding around on blue runs. i remember skiing the Pyramide (classic run) in April with an English guy I met and bumping into 2 other Brit seasonaires at the end of the bootpack. the conversation was along the lines of "you're the first Brits we've found this season who are remotely interested in doing this stuff"

also, might be worth at least lurking on TGR - there are one or two locals who sometimes post and there are certainly people who visit that area and know their way around who would be worth hooking up with

After all it is free

Can't recommend any guides although Arno is a good non-guide guide to the area (if you know what I mean) but I'll third his and scottishskier's view that AdH will probably have better off piste until you begin hitting the bigger things in La Grave. Unless you're lucky to hit La Grave on a powder day the main routes down will be bumps pretty much the whole way, I include most of the couloirs in this.

achilles, not sure whether he's back in action. He had a bad parapente accident last autumn, broke his ankle badly, and only skied a few times in total last year (was essentially still not working last Easter).

manicpb, you should certainly go over there, but as Arno says leave it until there's good cover and conditions and you have a bit more experience than it sounds as if you do at the moment. You then have a few options. If you're not greatly experienced backcountry but can find some mates who do know the main routes (Vallons and Chancel) then you can have great days exploring those by yourselves - do NOT try this though if you're all first timers over there as mistakes in route finding (particularly Chancel side) can be fatal. There are normally several groups of skiers around and the main routes are ski-pisted after a few days - but be aware that there is NO formal route marking, so you're on your own. Be very leary of following sparese or individual tracks though, as they may well end in a tight steep couloir, or even need a rope to complete. Maybe if you're making several trips take a guide for the first day and make sure you get as much about the lie of that land as you can from him, and then try later ones by yourselves. If you're a bit more adventurous/experienced by then, get a guide and you'll find some truly stunning routes away from the main drag.

You should also be aware that LG does no avalanche control. So a) if route finding for yourself you need to always be aware of conditions underfoot and terrain traps and all that good stuff and b) if there's a big dump, they may well be shut for a day or two to let conditions settle, and they only decide after the guides' 7am patrol whether they will open or not. First day after reopening is awesome.

Edit: Ah - looks like we're pretty much all on the same page on this one. manicpb are you a skier or boarder? If a skier, yes there are plenty of bumps around on the main routes, which can make them quite fun. I understand though that this would make them less desirable for a boarder. Even a while after it's snowed though, the Girose glacier can be great - but you really do need a guide for that though, as they know where the more dangerous crevasses are, and the lowest points you can go without needing a rope or a loooooong walk back up.

I've skied there mostly with Philippe Andre, but he's a very popular guide and will probably be booked up for the season already. Jean-Yves Hubaud is a really fun guy, and has excellent english. He instructs at the Buissoniere Ski school in Serre Chevalier but spends most of his time guiding in LG. I don't have any more specific contact details for him, but the SCGB use him every year so they will have details - maybe you can get a contact off them.

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La Grave is the perhaps the best lift accessed terrain in the world. However it best from mid season onwards, as the glacier takes a long time to fill in with snow. And you will need to be on your A-game to have the skills to appreciate it all.

If your out for a season then the Vamos guide book to ADH, L2A and LG is essential background reading.

Keith Garvey, Matt Farmer, Miles Smart and Joe Vallone are names that spring to mind. However there is honestly no such thing as a bad mountain guide in La Grave - they will all show you some genuine mind blowing skiing & terrain... assuming you have the technical skills.

Check out the skiers lodge (generally swedish & US UIAGM guides) and also the guides office (generally french guides) - which is next to the lift station.

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Thanks for the info people.

For the record I am a boarder and worked as a tree surgeon fo a few years so pretty clued up on harness and rope skills hence the desire to step up the freeride skills! It is (i admit) the avy and route finding skills I don't posses so won't be taking unnessercery risks just for a powder fix, however I would like to gain them (along with equipment) this season!

Will look out for some courses (be good if the free ones at LG still run) and try and develop my skills in ADH. If anything else springs to mind please let me know!

manicpb, for Adh you could try Quentin Delavignette. He's got a website, too.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

frank4short, if AdH is anything like L2A you'll struggle to find people who want to do this sort of thing. We were lucky in some ways that we met some saisonairres in La Grave who showed us some of the more interesting stuff, however, we had the advantage of knowing how to travel in the mountains.

They may run avalanche awareness courses in AdH, they did in L2A, although you'd get more out of one with a guide on the hill this way you'd have a head start with knowing how at least one type of transceiver works: I bought my tracker as it was the only one I'd used with a guide so I knew how to work it already. Then you can at least get the kit and practice with your mates, then you can learn about route finding and safe travel, some of this would most likely be covered in the previous course. Once you've got this knowledge you'll find people more willing to ride with you e.g. I might go off piste with someone inexperienced if I'm with a couple of others who I trust but if I know that person can use a transceiver I'd be happy with less "others".

A snowHead

A snowHead

manicpb, gratuitous self-link. This is what a snowboarder can amuse themselves with over a season in that area http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45488 gets better from about page 3 and the AdH stuff is a bit later.

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Once again thanks, you've made me look at a few different angles to approch things this season and have made me more determined to ride some different and challanging terrain.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Normally a guide's fee is fairly fixed, regardless of numbers (though most take a maximum of 6 clients some will take 7 - or for really hairy lines it might be only 3 or 4).

If you want an exciting guide who will push you a bit, then the best is probably Philippe André ( racinesurf@aol.com )- though he will probably be largely booked up by now.

I'm sure Jean-Yves is great too, but I have only skied with him with Ski Club of GB holidays and he was a bit too cautious on those for my taste - but that may have been dictated by the ski club (and the standard of the worst skiers, of course). However, on one of those holidays the 2 guides did also try to ski down the back to St Christoph on a day when it had been extremely windy and I was worried about wind-slab. We had to climb out again, since it was clearly too dangerous, after the lead guide was avalanched almost at the top. I can't remember who the guides were but that didn't impress me.

Edited

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snowball, doesn't Remy work out of Chamonix - so not the obvious choice for odd single days in LG? Yes I think the guides do tend to be quite cautious when with the SCGB (I've found this generally, across multiple resorts) - even Phillipe has been fairly cautious, and I know you rate him very highly. For the experience level it sounds as if manicpb has at present (and it may be quite different by the end of the season) you probably don't need a particularly extreme guide.

brian

Swirly, I totally missed this before. TR on steroids. Very Happy

Awesome! That's got my seasonal juices flowing I can tell you. Hope to see you in Switz (hope I can hack it if I do Confused

).

After all it is free

GrahamN, Oops, absolutely correct, I wrote down the wrong guide. Now edited.

brian, thanks. snowHead

I very much doubt you'll have even the slightest trouble skiing with us, going by your TRs we should be the worried ones!

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Swirly, that was a fantastic report- you must have had such a great time. I was really happy just looking at the pictures!

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brian, you missed it because he stuck it in the snowboarding forum. This year's is going somewhere else and hopefully, due to the purchase of an HD camcorder, we will be uploading a bunch more video.

Returning to the matter in hand. Quentin Delvignette would be a very good guide choice for AdH and LG as he has worked in both. Booking him through www.delavignette.com is cheaper than booking him through the AdH guide bureau website. Farmer (for some reason he doesn't use his first name/Keith Garvey) would also be very good for LG but are usually working for Skierslodge for the duration of their time there. Worth asking them directly, though as both are very solid skiers and also really entertaining guys. Farmer in particular did a lot for my confidence in duff conditions.

Slightly controversially I would point out that AdH is mainly non-glacial. The main big glacial descents are the Impo, which you will not be doing first and the Sablat, which is basically a big powdery red run (albeit a big powdery, crevassed red run that periodically avalanches at the top, by the traverse round the lake and on the descent into Clavans le Haut). This does mean, though that you could consider skiing with a moniteur instead (110 EUR for a morning, 140 for an afternoon out of high season).

LG does run a pretty good basic beacon training session run by the lift company (Tuesdays, P2 - or that was the arrangement when I did it). Other stuff is, I think, run by the guides office and costs money. They also have a patrouilleur at the bottom of the telepherique (guide but paid for by the lift co) who will answer questions, sometimes in a way you don't like but that is part of the deal.

Finally, while LG has a justifiable aura around it, I would not build it up as being more difficult skiing or having more committed skiing than AdH. While there are exceptions to this, the reverse is likely true - the obvious big descents in AdH take you well away from regular skier traffic and civilisation in general. With LG, there are often a few more people around (emphasis on the few). Best of luck, you're in exactly the right place. It should be a great season.

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without wishing to nitpick, i am going to... nitpick Wink

all the runs off the Pic Blanc are glaciated although it's probably fair to say there is less risk of falling in a crevasse than at LG

what you can do is book an off piste lesson with ESF Vaujany which will last 2 hours and show you all sorts of interesting lines off the Dome des Rousses, which has a LOT of interesting lines and isn't glaciated

Arno, fair point - add in the access to the Pyramid, although the skiing itself isn't glacial. Other than that, there is a pile of stuff up there that you don't really need the guide for: Combe de Loup, Pierrefroid, the Cerisier etc are all skiable with an instructor. Combe de Loup in particular is an ESF trade route.

Edited to remove Cote de Rivets - I can't tell from my Vamos guide whether the run starts on or below the glacier, although I do recall clambering over grass on it earlier this year.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

manicpb, I forgot to say, I'll be in ADH for the New Year week - with family but ideally getting away for some offpiste fun on the odd half-day. If you're interested perhaps we can hook up.

A snowHead

Planning to pick up the Vamos guide book before I leave, only stockist I can find is S+R in B'ham. Glad there seems to be some good routes right on my doorstep in ADH!

horizon, it goes without saying that Christmas an NY are one of the buisest times (work wise) so the option is there but not sure it will be possible. I'll PM you closer to the time, if it's really that scarse of off pisters I will be welcome of a riding partner!

A snowHead

snowball, you'd be surprised at how often those routes at La Grave get skied, by late March, for example, the Chirouze was being done everyday and the Pan de Rideau was practically a trade route! That said there are a lot more routes of this standard (slopes over 40 degrees, fall and die) in La Grave and needless to say I haven't done any of them, the only two being Voute which is exposed until the climb to the ab but no steeper then 30 degrees and Mines which we accessed from L2A which is more of a route finding challenge with the exception of the sketchy exit couloir. The thing is that although there are all these hard routes the local ski populace is good enough to do them.

In AdH some routes go a long way from the area e.g. over the Col de Couard and almost noone skies them, however, I'm struggling to think of any with the seriousness of the La Grave routes. The 263 couloir is supposed to be pretty steep and exposed but I only have an angle from the Vamos guide which seems to dramatically overstate most things. I have it on good authority that the Pioches couloir that comes out on the Grand Sablat is very steep and exposed though.

That's the big difference: La Grave big, hard and dangerous descents that get skied whenever they're in condition. Alp d' Huez long routes that are very rarely skied and mainly non-glaciated. It was common to see big groups on touring skis in La Grave too heading off to the Col de Girose, in AdH I saw two people touring and they were only off to do the Pyramide.

To the list of AdH non-glaciated stuff I'll add all the Perrins and La Fare stuff which is quite a few routes (admittedly this is best done as part of a descent from the Pyramide or Impossible Arno will tell me this should be run out over the Col de Couard and he's probably right). And the chimneys Shocked

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Couloir 263 ain't all that but there is an exposed traverse to get out of it

Pioches is steep but a lot less exposed than it looks. There is a pretty big run out but looked at head on it looks like you will automatically go off a big cliff if you fall. It is slightly sketchy getting back onto the main Grand Sablat run

gorilla, Swirly, you geezers need to look at a map with all this chat about non-glaciated stuff Wink

. Even once you're off the Pyramide or Impo you have to cross the Glacier des grands Rousses. It may be pretty benign but still

i'm not particularly wedded to the Col du Couard but it does give you the maximum off piste vertical. Between it and the Dome des Rousses there are countless lines (some of which are genuinely steep) - I have barely scratched the surface

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Arno, the routes I mentioned are definitely off the glacier as you pass below the lac de Milleu to get to them. I just said they were better done from the glaciated routes above as access from the Pome de Petit Rousses is a bit flat. Unless this is what you were referring to above? When we did Perrins Sud there was a large group with an ESF instructor who we passed on the way in (at least until I had to take my board off and walk) he told us they were doing Perrins Nord, either he lied or didn't know North from South.

I'd have liked to have done a finish over the Col de Couard just that when we got to that point the snow had run out.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Reading this and Swirlys awesome TR which I completely missed before has got me totally stoked for the forthcoming season. manicpb, I'm sure if you make yourself known around the guides hut at the bottom of the DMC you'll soon sort out what's what. Speaking from first hand experience your choice of guide can make a huge difference to the quality of your day, can highly recommend Stephane Marigot guide.stef@wanadoo.fr . Have a great season snowHead

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Swirly, agree - you can get to all the perrins stuff from the dome des rousses without touching a glacier. also, a lot of the glaciers marked on the map have shrunk considerably - i actually checked geoportail.fr for an aerial photo to make sure the glacier des rousses is still there!

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Swirly, Pan de Rideau isn't that bad i'd put it on a par with the Glacier Ronde or the Cosmiques in Cham. When we were there a friend of ours from years before in Cham brought us down it. At the time it was getting hit at least a dozen times a day but conditions were good. We did one of the trifides but it was just a mogel run so decided to avoid the other 2. I'd say my 2 favorite runs we did in la Grave was the run down to st christophe cause it was a proper day out or this one http://www.snowmediazone.com/the_zone/showphoto.php?photo=17914 but that's mostly cause no one followed them. Which i thought was kind of cool considering the local standard.

After all it is free

frank4short, I'm a boarder, I think I could cope with the run but the traverse into it scares the crap out of me (even more so as I ride goofy). Fall or even slip there and you're screwed is the impression I get. I know of one person who fell twice on the Pan itself, once hucking the bergschrund and again lower down.

I've done the run to St Christophe from the Col de Lauze i.e. from the top of the drag which is nice enough but not massively taxing. The scenery is stunning though. That was getting done a lot: enough for the guides to have booked an entire bus service for their clients to get back to Venosc. It also gets very flat, fortunately after the hanging glaciers which means boarders need snowshoes or approach skis. We also did St Christophe from the L2A system leaving from above the Toura chair which is an excellent run with no walk/pole out and done a fair bit less. Do you know where that photo is? I can't place it .

http://www.skierslodge.com/legend/# gives a summary of most of the major routes in La Grave in a roughly left to right direction. It's worth noting that once you get to the Freaux you're no longer finishing in La Grave and the routes further down come out further and further down the road. The descriptions and diagrams (which aren't always exact in our experience) give a good example of how important the route finding is and why it isn't a place to follow tracks: in good conditions a fair few of these may be getting skied daily. The first time I did Voute we got fresh tracks down it although this was only because the wind had filled the previous days in. The second time we were the middle group of 3 at the ab station!

That's made La Grave look super-hardcore now which isn't the whole case and a myth that should be dispelled: there's plenty of good amenable routes too, check out those between the Vallons de la Meije and Freaux couloir (with one very notable exception). We're also getting quite a way off topic but it's fun to talk about these things.

Swirly, Nice link never seen that before. I'll keep it in my mind for future. Am desperate to get back to la grave though it's very much interdependent on my employment situation & finding a suitable partner in crime. As whilst i've no problem skiing steeps on my own La grave isn't really the kinda place for doing it like that.

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Seeing as we are talking LG... Here is a really cool video of Joe Vallone in the upper trifide.
(Joe used to be an X games jibber prior to becoming a UIAGM guide!).

http://youtube.com/v/2xzlnUftZ9k

The skiers lodge web site certainly shows the true potential of that telephrique - and also how complex some of the terrain is. I think Les Enfetchores or perhaps La Voute are two of my favorite days ever on skis Very Happy

However every time I visit La Grave discover some new runs, and variants of old runs.

Never done Trifide 3 (25m exit lob) or the Ygrec (55 degrees) - however they are both proper 'extremo', and only get skied once or twice each winter, if that.

A very special place!

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La Grave/Alpe d'Huez Guides?

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