 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi to everyone, hope someone can help.
To keep it short, I have only just started to ski ( Im 49 going on 25) taking ski lessons at Castleford and ready and yearning to get onto a mountain to show off my new skills  Other members talk about 1,2, and 3 weeks experience on the slopes, I have a good 6 hours on the xscape slope!!!! ( Im sure that must confirm my Snowhead status.!) 
I have checked out this site and pistepals, in the hope of joining a group to go skiing with on the 26th/27th December 09, for a week, and again at the end of February 2010. (Europe only)
I dont know the ins and outs of red, blue and black runs, ( or any other colour if there are any?) and really need either a single skiier or a group of veterans to show me the ropes of what a ski holiday is all about. I am open to suggestions as to starting out on the pistes and would like to book for just after xmas first and see how I go before the February booking.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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TROY, welcome to Snowheads!
I think you will have more fun on your holiday if you find a group to go with that has a few people of your level, then you'll be able to ski with them. I'm sure you'll get loads of useful advice on here. The first thing people will say is take lessons - but as you're already doing that, it's a good start!
After 6 hours at Castleford you'll probably need more lessons on your holiday, either join group ski school or have a few private lessons, depending on what level you're at by the time you go.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TROY, Welcome to Snowheads.
Do you have kids (or are a teacher yourself)?
If not, then those two periods you suggest are the most expensive and the most crowded, and probably not the best choice of times to go if you can avoid them.
As beanie1, says, the best idea is to take group ski lessons. Your lessons at Castleford will mean you won't start in the lowest group, and it will give you a ready made bunch of people to ski with for at least part of the time.
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the more time you get to use castleford the better..... I think they do a 3 hour session, you only need a half dozen of these and you will be skiing like its your 2nd or 3rd week. More importantly, learning is hard work... after a few weeks skiing you can ski longer as it becomes easier for you..... you will enjoy your first real week alot more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks Beanie, I wondered weather ski lessons wopuld be beneficial to get used to the conditions etc.
Alex,, Thanks for your reply and concern of the cash! I dont have kids ( not that OI am taking skiing anyway!!) but my work dictates when I can go ,, up to a point.
daehwons,, thanks for getting back to me I have had 7 hours skiing in total at Castleford. and from never even stepping into ski's, I feel that I am doing pretty well now, I also go for recreational skiing hours on top of the lessons. I now have the yearning to get better and better and to give Franz klamer a run for his money ( you may not remember him depening on your ages!!)
I would go every day if I could S'pose Ive got the ski bug
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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TROY, It wasn't just concern for your cash.
The reason those times are most expensive is that they are the most popular. So your ski classes are likely to be larger groups, you are more likely to have to queue for lifts, there will be less room on the pistes, etc.
But if you don't have much choice about when, it is still better than not going.
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TROY, Two seasons ago I was exactly where you are now. I was 45 and had got to recreational level at Castleford after a few lessons. My first ski on the mountains was in January 08 A week in Pamporovo, Bulgaria, I loved it. Contrary to what a lot of people on here may think BG is great for a first ski holiday it may not be as sophisticated as the Alps but can be great fun, there are good lessons available for a very low price, you can often get 4hrs a day group lessons x5 days for substantially less than 2hours per day x5 in other parts of Europe. The slopes are usually quite accessable for beginners too and you can afford plenty of apré, as beer prices are pretty low(however conditions may not be ideal for your first ski trip at New year) . In the rest of my first season went to Sierra Nevada spain for 2 days and Tignes in April for 3, taking at least a couple of hours private lessons each hol. Last season I did 3 days in Tignes 2 weeks in Banff, 4 days in Sierra Nevada and 3 days in La Plagne taking lessons every time exept La Plagne and S Nevada. you see I got the bug bad too.
You may see a bit of a pattern developing here, I personally believe lessons are the best investment you can make with regards to your skiing. Two years on and I'm confident to ski all blues and reds and have done a fair few blacks plus have dabbled with moguls and a bit of off piste and enjoy my skiing more each time I go. Just shows youre never too old to try something new.
I have to agree withalex_heney, If you can go at times other than NY or Feb Half term you'll certainly get cheaper deals and emptier pistes. If you keep posting on here I'm sure you'll find a suitable group to hook up with.
Good luck with your skiing and I hope you continue to enjoy it as much as I have.
Mark
(edited once for omission)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi, this is my advice, Do a search of your local area and find a ski club, and join it. About this time of the the year clubs start gearing up for the coming ski season with ski lessons and social events leading up to the clubs` ski trip to the Alps somewhere. There will be good sound advice and people are very helpful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This link maybe of use .. Free boot hire .. ski hire & lessons .. not sure of the availability but you would make connections / network at Ski School anyway ... could save you a few££££
http://www.freshersskiweek.com/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Without a doubt.... book lessons on your first trips to the mountains. You will be skiing with people at the same level, and even if your technique has improved enough at Castleford, lessons will teach you about skiing in the mountains - coping with varying snow conditions, learning to navigate the resort and most importantly the ski instructor will act as a guide - taking you to the runs that you will be able to ski and also to the runs that will push you that bit more.
An instructor will also encourage you if the conditions turn bad - if it's white out you may not feel confident enough to head out on the mountain - an instructor will still take you out, and encourage you to learn the important skills to enable you to be comfortable in these conditions.
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Thanks to everyone who has responded the advice is certainly apreciated and I am feeling more at ease , looking for hols with instructors now. With regards to the fresshers skiweek I think they may rumble that I have had quite a few lessons!! Thanks anyway and anymore advice please feel free to share it with me
TROY
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You know it makes sense.
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Troy ..
Wouldn't worry about that too much ... I went it a number of weeks ago & the school was split into ability levels .. there was no need to have been an absolute snow virgin ... I used ESF in France (La Plagne I think) & everyone's feedback would be that it was excellent .. & cheap !
Give it ago ... frankly - if you don't turn up on day 2 nobody checks ....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mean years ago ..
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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nbt I'm 55 short and a bit fat. I don't think there is anything I could do on skis or otherwise to look even slightly cool 
I do show people how to side slip right at the start as a little confidence builder to make them feel there will be a way out if the going gets tough. The skis are kept parallel and it helps students control their skis parallel. So no disagreement there.
As far as snowplough is concerned I find that once it has been taught it is hard to unteach it. When folk get into any trouble like an icy slope in white out conditions they revert to it as a coping strategy. If someone is taught to ski with good technique it is completely unnecessary to snowplough. Apart from the rescue guys towing the blood wagons have you ever seen anyone who can actually ski, revert to snowplough?
Don't snowplough. Not because it's not "KEWL" but because its simply not necessary to contort your legs into an unnatural position. Skiing should be natural. Evolution has given a set of reflexes in our legs to stop us falling and keep us upright whilst we are constantly out of balance as we walk and run. You can use those same reflexes whilst we are skiing but not if we adopt unnatural positions.
IMHO snowplough is an unnatural position.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
As far as snowplough is concerned I find that once it has been taught it is hard to unteach it. When folk get into any trouble like an icy slope in white out conditions they revert to it as a coping strategy. If someone is taught to ski with good technique it is completely unnecessary to snowplough. Apart from the rescue guys towing the blood wagons have you ever seen anyone who can actually ski, revert to snowplough?
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Yes.
In fact I have done it myself, and while I am not an "expert", I can and do normally ski parallel on red runs quite happily, and on blacks when I venture there.
Snowplough is not something anybody will do as "normal" once they have learned to ski parallel, but there are situations where it is a damn site easier than trying to control your speed properly without it in very limited space.
If you teach beginners, and refuse to teach them snowplough, then I think you are doing them a dis-service.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
As far as snowplough is concerned I find that once it has been taught it is hard to unteach it. When folk get into any trouble like an icy slope in white out conditions they revert to it as a coping strategy. If someone is taught to ski with good technique it is completely unnecessary to snowplough. Apart from the rescue guys towing the blood wagons have you ever seen anyone who can actually ski, revert to snowplough?
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Yes.
In fact I have done it myself, and while I am not an "expert", I can and do normally ski parallel on red runs quite happily, and on blacks when I venture there.
Snowplough is not something anybody will do as "normal" once they have learned to ski parallel, but there are situations where it is a damn site easier than trying to control your speed properly without it in very limited space.
If you teach beginners, and refuse to teach them snowplough, then I think you are doing them a dis-service. |
OK. I admit it. If I'm inside the netting coming into a lift and there is not room to make a turn of any sort and I'm going too fast and there are other skiers in front of me and there is no other alternative but to hit them then maybe snowplough is an option; but then I should not be going that fast inside the netting.
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I agree with nbt that you have to know how to snowplough and with alex_heney that most skiers transfer to parallel skiing successfully.
However I am a (hopefully rare) example of what gravystuffing refers to in that there is a residual element of snowplough in my technique that baffles instructors but is simply the result of having learnt on a busy, short dry slope where even getting to the sort of speed where parallel skiing becomes easy was generally impossible. By the time I attempted parallel skiing I had spent far too long doing snowplough and now I alternate between proper parallel and what is probably the world's fastest semi-snowplough. Apart from an initial trip to see if they were ready to attempt skiing I will never take my kids to a dry slope again and when they go for their second week on snow at half term I will immediately try to get them onto parallel technique so they don't end up like me, even if it costs me a fortune in private lessons.
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The only way out of this is to have me ski behind you shouting obscenities every time you plough.
Look at the graph on this page for the view from the other side
http://www.freerideskier.com/html/kill_the_snow_plough_.html
Try moving on to carving (I bet you use carving skis) and you'll stop ploughing. You cannot carve and plough. If you are a ski "follower" loosen up. Keep both hands in sight. Ski heel to toe. Keep out of balance. Try skiing as if you're speed skiing. That will loosen you up and get you more dynamic. Remember.....no ploughing 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gravystuffing, I'm wondering which system you did your ski instructor qualifications with. BASI, CSIA, the French system, NZ, PSIA, someone else?
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I'm not an instructor but the bloke who wrote this
http://www.freerideskier.com/html/kill_the_snow_plough_.html is and having tried this system for myself after several years of pain and hitting the plateau I've got to say I agree with him.
I just help friends and acquaintances who I see suffering under the "traditional" regime to become happy skiers and my own personal belief is; to become a happy skier you have to relax and become "natural". IMHO there is nothing natural about the snowplough turn.
It does help instructors with large groups get quickly away from the starting point. It does ensure instructors continue to get paid because as the graph shows (if you agree with it of course) progress slows if you start with the plough and the students think they need more lessons to escape the plateau.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 1-11-09 0:36; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gravystuffing, and where are you teaching? Because you really don't sound like you're an ISTD or equivalent which you need t be to teach in France (where I think Les Coches is).
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Tip 4 Never set off at an angle. Set off straight and go into your first turn. Why? What we are engaged in is downhill skiing. If you set off at an angle then you move more slowly and the first turn is more difficult especially if you reach the edge of the piste!!!! Overcome any fear at the top of the hill by relaxing (especially your toes). Make a good first turn and then you are confident, relaxed and best of all SKIING
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Others have picked on your don't snowplough so I'll pick on this. Um, have you ever skiied a really steep gnarly piste? Do you really want to set off straight down the hill?
At a more basic level when I teach people to carve I start by having them et off at an angle to the slope so they're already on edge. Much much easier than learning to carve from starting straight down the fall line.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| School of hard knocks That lot wouldn't give my methods the time of day. |
I figured. Do you teach in Les Coches?
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| beanie1 wrote: |
gravystuffing, and where are you teaching? Because you really don't sound like you're an ISTD or equivalent which you need t be to teach in France (where I think Les Coches is).
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Tip 4 Never set off at an angle. Set off straight and go into your first turn. Why? What we are engaged in is downhill skiing. If you set off at an angle then you move more slowly and the first turn is more difficult especially if you reach the edge of the piste!!!! Overcome any fear at the top of the hill by relaxing (especially your toes). Make a good first turn and then you are confident, relaxed and best of all SKIING
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Others have picked on your don't snowplough so I'll pick on this. Um, have you ever skiied a really steep gnarly piste? Do you really want to set off straight down the hill?
At a more basic level when I teach people to carve I start by having them et off at an angle to the slope so they're already on edge. Much much easier than learning to carve from starting straight down the fall line. |
Tip 4 is for beginners not for intermediates moving on to carving. I help nervous oldies to break bad habits and overcome their fears. I accompany friends and acquaintances and give them confidence like I wish the crappy instructors who taught me should have done.
Everything changed for me when I had a lesson from an instructor from the British American Ski School Vald'Isere http://www.valdisereskischool.com/
These guys understand the real science behind skiing. Anatomy, body dynamics, physics and explode myths at every turn. They said everything I had been taught was factually incorrect and they changed the way I thought. From that day on no more ploughing, keeping in balance, skiing on the balls of my feet etc.
Now if someone is struggling (like I was) and they ask for my help then I tell them the philosophy and they most often soon become happy skiers. If they don't then usually they are too frightened to ever be skiers anyway.
IMHO only two things stop people skiing well and happily. Fear and immobility in any joint often caused by fear.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 1-11-09 0:58; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| You cannot carve and plough. |
Yes you can, in fact I was teaching that as a drill earlier today.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| Keep out of balance. |
Do you deliberately teach people to stay out of balance?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
| You cannot carve and plough. |
Yes you can, in fact I was teaching that as a drill earlier today. |
....I'd like to see a video of that
Why would you want to teach that? What benefit would you gain from it? Genuinely I'd like to know. I'm not an instructor just someone who is interested. If an instructor asked me to carve plough I'd want to know why?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
| Keep out of balance. |
Do you deliberately teach people to stay out of balance? |
When you walk/run you are moving across the central line and are constantly out of balance. You do not fall over because your reflexes prevent that. Try and balance a stick on the end of your finger. It's quite difficult because the stick has no reflexes. If you act like a stick stiff and trying to keep in balance you will fall down. Relax and forget about balance and your reflexes do the job for you. Skiing then becomes as natural as walking or running. Job done
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
| Keep out of balance. |
Do you deliberately teach people to stay out of balance? |
I do not teach but when I tell people my philosophy of how to ski I say for sure that you should always be out of balance. When you walk/run you are moving across the central line and are constantly out of balance. You do not fall over because your reflexes prevent that. Try and balance a stick on the end of your finger. It's quite difficult because the stick has no reflexes. If you act like a stick stiff and trying to keep in balance you will fall down. Relax and forget about balance and your reflexes do the job for you. Skiing then becomes as natural as walking or running. Job done
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 1-11-09 1:14; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Same reason you should ski heal to toe. Millions of years of evolution has made us walk upright placing our heal down first before our toe. It is only when that happens that the reflexes are fully in play. The natural way to ski is heal to toe just as nature intended.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gravystuffing, please please go and do some instructor training, doesn't matter which country, before you try and teach anymore of your friends and acquaintances.
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Now if someone is struggling (like I was) and they ask for my help then I tell them the philosophy and they most often soon become happy skiers. If they don't then usually they are too frightened to ever be skiers anyway.
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Not true. Just send them to an experienced instructor who will adpat the way they teach to help them.
I'm sorry that you had some bad lessons from "traditional" instructors, and glad that you found an instructor who was able to help you. But that method might not work for everyone, and if you do some instructor training you will learn to think a bit more laterally to work out ways to help people overcome whatever problems they face.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
| You cannot carve and plough. |
Yes you can, in fact I was teaching that as a drill earlier today. |
....I'd like to see a video of that
Why would you want to teach that? What benefit would you gain from it? Genuinely I'd like to know. I'm not an instructor just someone who is interested. If an instructor asked me to carve plough I'd want to know why? |
Commonly called chinese snowploughs or power ploughs (I like to call then space invaders, which anyone who remembers the video game will understand when they see the drill). Skis are held in a plough shape, and always point down the fall line so the skier tracks sideways without rotating the feet. The drill was used as part of a set to focus on engaging the ski early in the turn, getting a feel for how powerful the turning force can be if you edge and press the ski as soon as you transition rather than waiting until the fall line or after before you engage the ski.
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gravystuffing,
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Why would you want to teach that? What benefit would you gain from it? Genuinely I'd like to know. I'm not an instructor just someone who is interested. If an instructor asked me to carve plough I'd want to know why?
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To develop skills?
If an instructor asked me to ski on one leg with my hands on my head, I'd be pretty sure he didn't intend me to ski like that all the time...
And yes you can carve snowploughs. Put your skis in a plough position. Are they flat or on edge?
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| gravystuffing wrote: |
| Keep out of balance. |
Do you deliberately teach people to stay out of balance? |
I do not teach but when I tell people my philosophy of how to ski I say for sure that you should always be out of balance. When you walk/run you are moving across the central line and are constantly out of balance. You do not fall over because your reflexes prevent that. Try and balance a stick on the end of your finger. It's quite difficult because the stick has no reflexes. If you act like a stick stiff and trying to keep in balance you will fall down. Relax and forget about balance and your reflexes do the job for you. Skiing then becomes as natural as walking or running. Job done |
If you do teach them to "always be out of balance" how do you suggest they achieve that?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gravystuffing wrote: |
| Same reason you should ski heal to toe. |
I'm at a loss to understand this, and have never heard that phrase used in skiing. Can you explain this a bit further?
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FAQ
