Looking to book a week mid March for family hols. Everyone tell's me how wonderful Austria is, trouble is when I start doing my research, I look at the Piste map too small, Hotel 200 yds from the bus stop , top station 2200 M etc etc.
The thing is I always go to the French ski factories and admittedly I am the kind of skier who likes to clock up the miles, which I know some of you will find mundane, but not me. Also want ski in ski out and somewhere that the conditions are still likely to be good in March. Les Arcs is probably my fauvorite area.
Everything I want from a holiday Austria on the face of it does not seem to provide, but all these people who tell me how good Austria is , they cant all be wrong can they.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quality beats quantity hands down.
Of course, these two concepts don't need to be mutually exclusive.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Kel,
The further east you go, the lower the snowline. I have skied at 600m on 17th March in Austria and it has been dumping snow. Ski Welt has well over 200km of piste and you can have lunch in a different village every day.
Personally, I prefer Austria to France. I like skiing bluse and reds all day, eating, drinking and enjoying myself. Austria also has something called Apres Ski!!!
Having done both I would choose Austria (or Italy) over France. The first aspect Austria wins on is accommodation. It's more hotel focussed and many are family-fun, friendly and good value for money establishments. Feels far more like a holiday than being stuck in a room with five other people and two cooking rings. Austrian resorts are often proper towns, rather than purpose-built ski complexes, which means there's lots to do as well as skiing in a charming and friendly setting. Secondly, I'd be hard-pushed to cover more than 100km of piste in 6 days and I do enjoy doing a few favourite runs a couple of times each. These 300km+ mega resorts are wasted on me, plus French resorts often have more difficult (i.e. scary) runs. I'm out to enjoy myself, not scare myself. Thirdly, I'm happy to store my gear in rentable lockers at the lift station and wander back to my hotel via a couple of bars at the end of the skiing day. Après ski is was Austria is all about. French après ski tends to be a bit dull or very British.
However, it's a case of what different people want from a skiing holiday. I've done a season in France and been to most of the major resorts on school and uni trips. There are some French resorts I'd love to ski at again, but I'm put off by the price of hotel accommodation and the lack of anything to do other than ski. But if all you want to do is ski some serious mileage in a week and you're not bothered about anything else, then you'll probably never understand the charm of skiing in Austria.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
queen bodecia wrote:
Secondly, I'd be hard-pushed to cover more than 100km of piste in 6 days and I do enjoy doing a few favourite runs a couple of times each. These 300km+ mega resorts are wasted on me, plus French resorts often have more difficult (i.e. scary) runs. I'm out to enjoy myself, not scare myself. Thirdly, I'm happy to store my gear in rentable lockers at the lift station and wander back to my hotel via a couple of bars at the end of the skiing day. Après ski is was Austria is all about.
But if all you want to do is ski some serious mileage in a week and you're not bothered about anything else, then you'll probably never understand the charm of skiing in Austria.
Maybe I'm a little selfish, You have just described my other half. BTW haven't booked anything yet so am considering Austria.
all these people who tell me how good Austria is , they cant all be wrong can they.
No,but if they enjoy different things from you they might be right to say its good and you may be right to say its not for you.
Personally I really enjoy skiing Austria. Ski in/out doesn't interest me and I don't really seek mega size ski areas.
Personally I think Austira is worth giving a go and would try it but if very large ski areas and ski in si out are a high priority you may be better sticking to France.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Kel, the two areas where Austria usually doesn't score as highly as France are ski in/ski out, and catered chalets. Both are available, but are harder to find since they're just not on the wish list for anyone visiting Austria. The Germans and Dutch are happy to take the bus or walk, and they'd prefer to eat out or self-cater rather than have someone barely out of school serve them indifferent food made with "value" ingredients, washed down with €2 per bottle bin-end wine, and all included in your chalet experience at only €15 per head per day.
A 200 yard walk is OK - you're warming up for a strenuous physical activity, so how about kicking the lazy gene into touch? If you can't walk 200 yards with your kit, you're too unfit to ski. Likewise with kids - if they can't carry their kit, they're not old enough to ski.
Top stations at 2200m are common - they're the ones with 1.5m of snow for most of the season, where visibility is usually good, trees abound, and where winds are usually low, rather than some god-forsaken wind-blasted boulder field at 3500m which is a featureless moonscape - and that's just the architecture
If it is mileage you want, try Saalbach. There are many more areas which total 200km+ across several bases, but not necessarily linked, such as the Zillertal or Ski Amade - both high on my list of recommendations.
The one thing you won't get is the sense that Southend has been relocated to the Alps, with surly waiters thrown in wielding menus that need a gold card just to cover the starters. Give it a go - live a little...
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
Top stations at 2200m are common
in many countries including France.
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I'm not wild about the way Austria lays cosiness on with a trowel - I'd actually rather have surly than twee. Plus the preponderance of graven images makes me a bit uneasy. But I shouldn't be surprised if it comes down largely to language and being familiar with the culture for me - my German is virtually non-existent and I feel like a tourist in Austria, whereas I don't in France, or even in Francophone Switzerland.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Hurtle,
Quote:
the preponderance of graven images
does take a bit of getting used to, but it is a Catholic country, and doesn't strike me as any more obviously so than Spain or Italy.
The stuffed animals (especially the, um, "invented" species) are probably more of a challenge to most people
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ousekjarr, I agree about Spain, less of a problem in Italy IME. Absolutely agreed about the stuffed animals and kitsch decorations generally. (Not that the French can't do chintzy restaurants when they put their minds to it!)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ousekjarr,
Its not that I cant walk 200yds, its that when I've done it I want to be at a lift station, not a bus stop to take me to the lift station. As for my kids they are young men, who I know would enjoy the Apres Ski.
Think it might be time to broaden my horizons. As for your comment regarding the gold card, when the credit card statement arrived following my most recent trip to France, I left it unopened on top of the fireplace for nearly a week
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Kel, on our last boys trip to Flachau in the Ski Amade, we had a final night blow-out at the best restaurant in town - the Schusterhäusl, which consisted of three starters, three steaks, three beers and two bottles of wine, and three coffees. Total price was €120. They don't go in for Michelin stars, just very good food in great surroundings and with excellent service, at prices that don't cause you to spend the last night of your holiday worrying about how to pay for it all, and how to tell the wife how much you spent...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Austria It Just Doesn't Appeal To Me
I feel your apprehension, and wish to reassure you. There are plenty of other countries with skiing areas. Go to one of them. Phew! There. You can breathe more easily now.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Kel, While ski in/ski out is not nearly as common in Austria, it isn't unknown, and there are plenty of places where yuo can get to the skiing without a bus.
I wouldn't worry too much about the height, it is a different kind of height in Austria Seriously, the combination of the fact it is further East, togethehr with the fact tht the runs are more often over grass than rocks, means that you get more snow at the same height, and you need ;less of it anyhow.
It was suggested to me last year that to get an equivalence between Austria and France, you should add 300m to the Austrian height (so a top station of 2200m would be equivalent to 2500m in France). Obviously, this is only a very rough guide.
And there are plenty of places where you can rack up as many Kms as most people are capable of in a week. - The Zillertal and the Ski Welt are two I have been to, but there are also a number of others with 200Km+.
But of course, as others have said, what appeals to you may well not be the same as what appeals to me.
The amount of drag lifts and and ropeway's !!, apart from the one at the bottom of the Tignes lake I cannot remember the last time I went on a ropeway.
Despite all your comments I am not convinced
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just had another look at the ski welt piste map. The skiweltbahn ropeway 3410 M long with a vertical of 1010 M, on a ropeway Never
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Not that the French can't do chintzy restaurants when they put their minds to it!
and how! Our area is stuffed with chintzy restaurants most of which are stuffed with stuffed animals. But the people in them are very rarely surly - we invariably get a friendly but quiet welcome in restaurants where we don't know the people and a very friendly one in our two immediately local restaurants - limited by my French (though it's a lot better than their English) rather than anything else. The only surly restaurant we have come across was one of the posher ones in the area; we won't be going back, even though the food was good.
I much prefer the French "apres" too. Those yodelling and thigh slapping evenings are just too much - I remember one particularly irritating evening when the thigh slappers went round wiping some kind of soot over people's faces. Oh, how we laughed.
The problem with this kind of comparison is it tends to be apples and pears. Nice hotel in a dear little Austrian village - picturesque but slightly inconvenient versus massive French ski factory full of gaggles of British package tourists who think they can ski better than they can. There are plenty of nice French hotels too - for example this one: http://www.expedia.co.uk/pub/agent.dll?qscr=dspv
We ended up staying there, by chance, and as a result fell in love with the area and bought an apartment.
I think a Yodelling thigh slapping evening would just about be more endurable than a night in the Yetti Bar. I would give good odds on their not being a Yetti bar where your place is
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Kel wrote:
Just had another look at the ski welt piste map. The skiweltbahn ropeway 3410 M long with a vertical of 1010 M, on a ropeway Never
I think there's some confusion here! Apart from beginners' areas, there are very few T-bars left in the SkiWelt that I can think of. If the Skiweltbahn you're looking at is the lift from Hopfgarten to the top of the Hohe Salve, that is a two stage gondola, the second stage brand new with heated seats Maybe ropeway is a bad translation (probably from German Seilbahn, which literally translates as ropeway but usually means gondola or cable-car). A T-bar (tow) is a Schlepplift (or Schlepper).
Edit: Have checked the piste plan now. The Skiweltbahn isn't the gondola I was thinking of but is a gondola going up the other side of the valley, connecting Brixen to Westendorf. I agree that the translation 'ropeway' is confusing. The 'drag lifts' are the tows but, as I said, most of them are short lifts on beginners' slopes.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 21-09-09 23:47; edited 3 times in total
As for mileage, here's the data for a typical day we did this year - we don't hang about, but we do take two 10 minute chocolate breaks per day and 30 minutes for lunch (you can probably work out where they are!)
31km travelled downhill, 7400m of vertical, and not a drag lift or T-bar in sight. There are some, of course, but they cover dead-end runs which don't get regular use because they're too difficult for beginners and early intermediates. This was on the slopes of Flachauwinkel, Kleinarl and Zauchensee - http://www.kleinarl.com/winter/s_panorama-gross-amade.html
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If all the skiers never been to Austria and say it isn't for them this can be good news to those go there as the queues will be even shorter.
After all it is free
After all it is free
espri wrote:
Kel wrote:
Just had another look at the ski welt piste map. The skiweltbahn ropeway 3410 M long with a vertical of 1010 M, on a ropeway Never
I think there's some confusion here! Apart from beginners' areas, there are very few T-bars left in the SkiWelt that I can think of. If the Skiweltbahn you're looking at is the lift from Hopfgarten to the top of the Hohe Salve, that is a two stage gondola, the second stage brand new with heated seats Maybe ropeway is a bad translation (probably from German Seilbahn, which literally translates as ropeway but usually means gondola or cable-car). A T-bar (tow) is a Schlepplift (or Schlepper).
Thanks for that info, can you imagine being dragged up a 3.4:1 incline for 3410 M . It is misleading though I would have not gone here because of the uplift, still a lot of drag's though. Heated seats thats my kind of lift.
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Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 21-09-09 23:49; edited 4 times in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
ousekjarr wrote:
Kel, The Germans and Dutch are happy to take the bus or walk, and they'd prefer to eat out or self-cater rather than have someone barely out of school serve them indifferent food made with "value" ingredients, washed down with €2 per bottle bin-end wine, and all included in your chalet experience at only €15 per head per day.
The one thing you won't get is the sense that Southend has been relocated to the Alps, with surly waiters thrown in wielding menus that need a gold card just to cover the starters. Give it a go - live a little...
yep - only the British could enjoy chalets, and Southend-by-the-Alps - beautiful post
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Have you looked at the Arlberg? Or Ischgl? Serfaus/Fiss? I suspect they'd hit all your buttons, and then some ...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
gortonator,
Quote:
only the British could enjoy chalets, and Southend-by-the-Alps
I don't enjoy either of those things - but still find it possible to holiday enjoyably and not too expensively in France, even in the large domaines. There again, I wouldn't sneer at people who go to Austria for their holidays.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Kel wrote:
Thanks for that info, can you imagine being dragged up a 3.4:1 incline for 3410 M . It is misleading though I would have not gone here because of the uplift, still a lot of drag's though. Heated seats thats my kind of lift.
I'm afraid the Skiweltbahn doesn't have heated seats (that's the Salvenbahn II - it took me a while till I got these new lifts sorted out in my post) but here's another photo of it (the bridge is the link over the road, from the Brixen gondola; Westendorf is the side in the photo).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hurtle, you're a good man
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
gortonator, erm, thank you, but I'm not a man.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hurtle, ok, now you're being awkward
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kel, by ropeways they mean Gondolas,
When I first went to Austria I was amazed by the modern lift system - lots of new gondolas and modern chairs everywhere, food, apres ski, people etc.
Going from Serre Chevalier to Saalbach was a shock - lifts, apres, scenery, food, atmosphere - all better by miles
Never been back to France since (although Tignes, Avoriaz, ValD'sere are high on my list I can not convince myself to pay 6-7E for a beer when I can pay 3-4E, have a good lunch for 6-7E and extend my day with apres ski for couple of hours,
instead of going back to the room straight from the slopes)
Also I never waisted a day skiing because of bad weather in Austria (I did many in Les Deux Alpes). Winds do not seem to cause a lot of problems and lots of tree skiing helps as well.
If you are after miles of pistes, higher altitude and modern lift system - try Ischgl or Serfaus. There is lots of accommodation close to lifts in Ischgl and you can ski to Switzerland as well.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 22-09-09 8:24; edited 2 times in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lots of good things about France but character and soul is distinctly lacking in some Tarentaise resorts, IMV.
Austria has some gems..as does France, but from the OP's criteria, it seems that he wants what France can offer in oddles of man-made resorts. That is fine, a lot of people go to them...and hopefully many more too.
I have done two trips to the Skiwelt (2007,2008) and did no see one drag lift. It is a good area, with a lot of cruisy reds and nice rolling blues.
I really liked it but (being French) I know where you coming from. I thought walking to the Gondola was a pain. I was in Soll, and it is low so the one and only home run tends to be in bad shape quickly and very busy when the lifts close. It is pretty much the same with the other villages in the belt. Night life was great but only really spread over 2/3 bars in soll and I hear that one of them (whiskymuhle) might be closing. Very small village: a few minutes walk and you've gone around...
But it is prettier than most (purpose built) French resort, I loved the food and the beer. As a competent skier I can think of more challenging areas, as a beginner/intermediate boarder it was perfect..
YOu'd be unlucky to have a bad time, so try it. If anything it will make appreciate France, or you'll have another destination you love..
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Kel, If you want ski in ski out there are plenty of places that offer it. Unfortunately they will be pretty villages that were probably farming communities for centurties and have gradually grown (sympathetically) over the years to very modern ski resorts - fast lifts, nice restaurants, large bedrooms etc....but if you want to stick with butt ugly purpose built then crack on - nothing wrong with that it's just that I prefer character, great food, brilliant beer, nice people, cleanliness, good value and great skiing .
You probably won't find too many ski in ski out places in UK TO brochures. To get the best you really need to book direct. First find out which resorts you fancy, go to website and usually there are filters you use when sourcing rooms that allows you to enter a max distance to slopes etc.
Places that come to mind are Oberlech, Obergurgl, Saalbach, Serfaus, Gerlos and there will be loads of others. As an example I'm heading off to Kappl with family in Jan and hotel is right beside main piste. Then in March off to St Anton with boys - guesthouse is right at foot of slopes and beside main gondolas. Neither of these resorts are what you would class as ski in ski out but by looking through the tourist office websites I've found brilliantly located places to stay.
Just had another look at the ski welt piste map. The skiweltbahn ropeway 3410 M long with a vertical of 1010 M, on a ropeway Never
You are clearly misunderstanding the term "ropeway". The one you refer to (no. 11 on the piste map) is a lift which was new this year, and is a gondola.
As, I suspect are most of the other lifts described as "ropeway", al;though I'm not sure where you have seen a copy of the piste map with that term on it.
Drag lifts are "Schlepplift", and while there are 40 of them in total, most of those are on nursery slopes.
There was only one drag lift I used in the entire trip last year (No. 88 on the piste map).
I did use that a few times, and as espri will recall, I fell off it once
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Kel wrote:
Looking to book a week mid March for family hols. Everyone tell's me how wonderful Austria is, trouble is when I start doing my research, I look at the Piste map too small, Hotel 200 yds from the bus stop , top station 2200 M etc etc.
Kel, apart from a city break to Innsbruck I have never stayed any where at an Austrian ski resort (St Anton-3.200m & Hinterglemm) more than a few minutes walk from the lifts. Also even though the resort km of piste may be small, each resort is normally linked to a large area easily accessed by the (sometimes heated chair) lifts. The French mega resorts are in reality a collection of different villages at different altitudes so I am not too sure that they are much bigger than their Austrian equivalents.
As for km of piste at the big/mega resorts such as 3V, Tignes, Chamonix, and even 4V (Verbier), I found that for the most part I could not get to the upper slopes (say 2,500 meters) because the lifts were shut due high winds and bad vis.
I tend to like the Austrian or Germanic Swiss ski resorts because I enjoy being in the minority/foreigner, rather than heading to the Brit enclaves of Courchevel/Meribel/Val Thorens/Verbier etc., where the language of choice in the Queen's English, although I do enjoy boarding at any resort really, and I especially like the moon scape upper mountain tranquillity of the like of Tignes, VT, L2A etc., and Austria
This thread needs some photos !!
But if you do not fancy Austria there is still a huge choice for you elsewhere - enjoy !!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Saalbach and Ischgl have plenty of accommodation very close to lifts (i.e literally a couple of minutes walk). Ischgl has the added advantage of a moving walkway to the Fimbabahn lift. We came out of our hotel (Jagerhof) crossed the road and got on the moving walkway!
Both have 200km (220km in Ischgl) of piste and excellent apres and more modern lift systems than I experienced in the Port Du Soleil last year. Ischgl is higher so will probably have better snow in mid March.
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I'm fine with kel going to France.
There's nothing wrong with the purpose-built, above-the-tree-line destinations. I've enjoyed them and will continue to do so, but if people are happy for me to also enjoy Austria's differently-shaped Alps, Siberian-origin snow, great apres and outstandingly accessible tree-skiing off-piste with fewer people, I'm delighted to keep it that way
Gemma, bier trinken!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rayscoops, great photos.
Kel, I'm exactly the same as you...want to go to Austria to save some money but I look at all the piste maps in the ski brochures and cant see one that really jumps out at me.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Seriously, the combination of the fact it is further East, togethehr with the fact tht the runs are more often over grass than rocks, means that you get more snow at the same height, and you need ;less of it anyhow.
Maybe ropeway is a bad translation (probably from German 
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