'Safety Optional' --- Mad or What??

A snowHead

On the 20th Jan I noticed a thread where the merits of wearing a helmet were debated. To anyone who believes wearing a helmet should remain optional I say you are off your head.

I have just returned from a skiing holiday to be greeted by the news that a good friend of mine, an experienced skier, has been left paralysed from the waist down following a seemingly innocuous fall.

On top of that, while in search of some ibuprofen gel I discovered that the pharmacy in Lech is located in the Medical Centre housing two GP's and support staff. During the ten or twelve minutes I spend there I witnessed about eleven or twelve serious injuries being prepared for transfer to the local hospital. This did not include another half a dozen or so minor injuries including nasty cuts or dislocations. The moral of the story is simple. Skiing is dangerous. That’s a fact and there is no getting away from it.

Unfortunately however taking care of yourself isn't always enough because its not only your own actions that can put you at risk but also the irresponsible behaviour or accidental mistakes of others that further put you at risk. I believe that anything that increases your safety level should be mandatory regardless of whether or not it may represent an inconvenience. And when I say it should be mandatory I do so because unfortunately some people have to be protected form their own stupidity. Believe it or not there are still people who believe they should have the right to choose whether or not they should have to wear a safety belt. Although a helmet may not have saved my friend a back protector possibly might have. As an instructor pointed out to us during our trip the statistics are the same every year. There are always fatalities and serious injuries. Furthermore for someone to suggest that wearing such gear leads to increase recklessness is just pure stupid

Another thing I feel terribly annoyed about is the fact that ski resorts are self-grading. I chose Lech because of the large proportion of blue slopes only to discover that some of these slopes were more challenging than some of the reds I have skied on in other resorts. In an increasing culture of health and safety awareness this situation can not be let continue. Coming from an insurance background I can assure readers that it is only a matter of time before an injured skier sues a resort for not accurately informing him or her of the correct level of difficulty of a slope. In the same way the proprietor of a commercial premises has a duty of care towards the welfare of his patrons, ski resort owners and controllers will have to become accountable for the descriptions of their slopes. The ski industry including all the associated tourism, merchandising and product sales is far to big for this crazy arrangement to continue.

While I am desperately upset by the terrible misfortune that has befallen my friend and his family I must confess that I still love skiing and even with the events of the last ten days I will ski again but neither I nor my wife or children will ever again go near a slope without a helmet and a back protector. These should be regarded as minimum safety measures. They won’t protect against all injuries but they will certainly reduce your risk of injury and if I had my way they wouldn't be optional.

A snowHead

Barry,Sorry to hear about your friend.

Fair play though nice to see an informed piece involving helmets. But like all human nature (Seat belts ) being the best example not everyone belives what they are told untill it is to late. My feelings on helmets and body armour are well documented around here but I honestly belive that it is a personal choice as long as people make an informed choice it is up to them. There will be the usual I will wear a helmet if I want argument and that is up to the individual.

Just remember if you hit a tree/ rock/ ice pack/ another skier with a helmet there is only going to be one winner sadly.

As for the piste grading as my sig used to say "God the red runs here are harder than in Italy, Thats because the Italians are pussies and Austrians are real skiers" Austrian resorts can be very dubious with their piste gradings but Cest la vie!! most of the more difficult runs always have a get out clause if you have a look around and see if there is a less steep part of the piste.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Not Austria in general - just certain resorts. Kitzbuhel has blacks which would be blue in St Anton.

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Always very sorry to hear that someone ended up severely injured...

That said people have to take their responsibilities (e.g. helmet or no helmet) and stand by their choice..:

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

BarryOS, it is very sad about your friend - and I offer my condolences. However, you are pugging your views, rather, with multiple postings of the same post. I refrained from commenting last time - but since you have set yourself up, you rather loose credibility by suggesting the pistes at Lech are over-graded. As for the difficulties in having a common piste grading search this forum. I believe any skier trying to sue over piste grading would loose.

I fail to see why you wish to impose your beliefs on helmets on others. Car seat belts are not the same thing. In an accident, un-belted rear-seat occupants can severely harm those in the front. Legislation is assists the driver in insisting all are belted. I must admit, though I would not think of not wearing a motorcycle helmet (only driven a moped Embarassed

) but I fail to see why helmets were made mandatory. I suppose it was seen as a way of reducing NHS costs - and so is a consequence of having a state-run medical system.

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Have there been any detailed studies in to the protection ski helmets offer?

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hyweljenkins, yup.

After all it is free

BarryOS, I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

The trouble with the safety versus risk debate is where do you draw the line?

Some people think it is worth the risk to ski without a helmet. Some think it is worth the risk with a helmet but without a back protector. No doubt, there are people who think a minimum of a helmet and a back protector approach is irresponsible and that skiing, even with all forms of protection, should be banned.

You say

achilles, cheers ears. Mine's saved me from harm twice: on the first occasion the chairlift bar came down on my head, the second 'er Indoor's helment fell out of the wardrobe on to me.

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To the OP, safety is always optional, and so it should be.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

jtr, an interesting parallel is climbing where one is attached to another person(s) with a rope. As a fall by either would potentially be serious for both, some climbers insist that their rope-mate wears a helmet, but offical/legal regulation would I feel sure, be strongly resisted.

I should add that helmets in climbing are predominately used to protect the noggin from rock-fall from above. I would say take up of helmets in climbing ranges from 50% on very solid gritsrone crags where the rock of rock-fall is minimal, to near 100% in Alpine situations where there's stuff raining down constantly

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Personal responsibility?

It's not the ski resort's fault if you choose to take on something more difficult than you can handle or ski on a busy slope/close to trees/rocks etc, not keep your kids on a leash or under close supervision.

Sorry to hear about your friend but I don't think mandatory safety equipment and nannying is the answer. It just eventually leads to a loss of freedoms for the reponsible.

You know it makes sense.

fatbob, spot on....

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

[quote="Odin"]

A snowHead

slingman, sorry to be a bloody pedant but the opposite of winner is loser. Looser is what ones jeans become when one cuts back on pie consumption. It's the 3rd time on this thread - sorry, it was starting to grate

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

red 27, it's "one's". wink

Seriously, the lo(o)se thing is the mistake that gets to me the most too.

I'll quit while I'm ahead. If I'm ahead.

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BarryOS, I reserve the right to remain stupid to your eyes. I grant you the right to remain bombastic to mine.

Sorry about your mate.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

laundryman, dang... I knew that would happen Embarassed

Your posts are perfect - as if I'm a worthy judge Sad

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BarryOS, sorry to hear about your friend.
However, life is dangerous, every day requires you to make a series of judgements about risk. I'd like to retain the right to make those judgements for myself. I don't expect you or anyone else to make them for me. Apparently I'm a grown-up and therefore I don't wish you/the nanny state/healthandsafetypolice to make them on my behalf. And I don't expect to make them for anyone else.

Odin, you're beginning to sound like Whitegold and, frankly, it's a bit tedious. I don't know you from Adam but I'm sure there are things that you do in your life that I might not necessarily agree with, but it's up to you if you want to risk life and limb, as long as it doesn't put anyone else in danger. Kindly extend the same courtesy to everyone else.

B**ger, and I was determined not to rise to any of this, but really - the helmet police are beginning to get annoying Evil or Very Mad

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I think to say its mandatory is pretty mad.

I read a very interesting article in Whistler in Ski Canada magazine (I think), arguing its case. An interesting point was, say, 1 Million Canadian skiiers all spend $100 on helmets because its mandatory or the "in" thing to do, do the maths - thats a whole lot of cash to save a handful of lives. The statistics showing how many people die from skiing head injuries are, relatively, very low. That same amount of money spent on say, Cancer research or indeed any number of other life threatening illnesses, would like save many 10s/100s/1000s of lives. A good point I thought.
Still, his conclusion was still ambiguous, very much up to the individual, and he was quite happy with that- incidentally he was a helmet wearer himself. He also said, that when wearing his helmet- he tended to go a lot faster, due to the mental invincibility he felt. Therefore, he was actually at higher chance of injuring himself, just elsewhere on his body eg. a broken fimur.

I'll see if its online anywhere, or if anyone else can find it. I found it a pretty good article with some valid points.

Myself, I don't wear one. And please dont compare to a seatbelt in a car, the likelihood of having a small crash and severely hurting yourself when you fly through the windscreen are far higher than caving your head in on snow... snowHead

After all it is free

samharris, Ive ignored most of the posts on this myself most of the time, no real interest- but hey, if we all wear cotton wool and dress like the Michelin man in protective gear, maybe we'll be safer. On second thoughts....nah - I think I can live with a little risk in my life, its an adventure sport - after all.

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samharris, i did say IMO (In My opinion), It is MY opinion i'm stating, No one elses
If it bothers you that much - ignore it !

The fact it winds you up and you bother to reply makes me possibly determined to wind you even further. Twisted Evil

But I'll resist. snowHead

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Actually I'm going to pick up on the point about piste grading and responsibility for skiers. Here in Scotland under the responsibility placed on hill goers as part of the rights to access granted under the land reform act, it would be the skiers responsibility to be sure they were on terrain they were capable off and if it were taken to court I think a very good defence could be made under the land reform act that the the lift companies responsibility ceases the moment you leave the uplift.

You do not have to buy a ski ticket to be on the mountain, your uplift ticket grants you use of the uplift. It grants you no other special rights over and above other users of the mountain, and all have the same rights and responsibilities under the Land Reform Act. Except when on the uplift you are as responsible for your own actions as any tourer, walker or climber.

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Winterhighland, Excellent - I'll salute that snowHead

A friend of my family died after crashing while skiing. If he'd have worn a helmet, he'd have survived. Everyone on this forum has heard lots of similar stories about the benefits of helmets. However, I still think you have to make this a personal choice for an adult skiier, supposing they have sufficient experience on the mountain.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Can't be bothered to read the entire thread, but to me it's simple:
I'll decide if I wear a helmet or not, no one else. You don't dictate which jacket I wear or which pair of gloves I wear, and similarly you won't be dictating what I wear on my head. And if you try, I'll find somewhere else to ski Smile

A snowHead

Since skiing cannot be made 100% safe, it must always in the end come down to personal choice. The PC brigade still haven't removed this, nor have the H&S mob - neither can they given my first statement. Each to their own - it's up to the adult to make an informed decision. It's up to those that know to inform skiers so they can make that choice.

No helmet. Might try one this year if I do any hard stuff.

A snowHead

There is always equipment we can add to increase the personal afety of skiing. The question is how far one is prepared to go.

If someone falls and got injured then it is an action initiated by the individual and nobody else. The helmet does not stop the fall. It only mitigaing the injury! Would a change of the approach/attitude to prevent the fall from happening in the first place be better? In other word could slow down in speed, don't attempt something beyond one's capability etc be more relevant than wearing a helmet?

If the injury is introduced by a third party beyond one's control then the helmet only protects a small portion of the body. Would a full body armour be more appropriate? Surely the injury to the spline, which is a much bigger target, must have priority.

Is it really that simple? The doctor pulls out a helmet, tells a patient "Put this on whenever you are skiing, continue with what you have been doing and you will be fine. Don't worry about those you run into. I shall deal with them as a got plenty helmets in my pharmacy"

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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On the other hand NOT coming from an insurance background i think this over-litigation and so called "accountability" bull$hit is slowly destroying the very fabric of our society and phrases like "duty of care" should be expunged from teh language and set on fire (I'm not sure if you can set a phrase on fire. You'd probably need a shed-load of petrol) RANT OVER

For what it's worth i CHOOSE to wear a helmet whilst sking however i think that's the important word. CHOOSE. Those that choose not to are equally entitled to their views and fair play to them.

Can we please stop having these big long patronising threads about whether you should or shouldn't wear a helmet. Do what you want. It's your head.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I'm a big fan of Darwinism.
Nice comfortable, lightweight, relatively cheap helmets are available for those who choose to take advantage of them. If you prefer a woolly hat, then fair enough.

After all it is free

I've almost died skiing (collapsed lung, internal bleeding,) and a helmet would have done nothing to save or help me and no I don't wear one it's a personnel choice. I don't wear a chest protector either. I do love skiing though. Smile

uktrailmonster, best wear it driving, crossing the road, in pubs/clubs etc. Will keep your head in tact, but breeding opportunities might be few and far between. rolling eyes

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