 Poster: A snowHead
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At our training session last Saturday our coach was getting us to do all sorts of exercises for encouraging edging and angulation on a fairly wide and open stubby course, so the turns were more GS-type than SL. So we were doing aeroplanes (arms straight out sideways, keep them level throughout the turn), superman (aka Schlopy, outside hand pushing hip into the turn, inside hand directly in the direction of travel) and the like. OK, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Then he said do the same "but now think about getting the crack of your @r$e over (or inside) the pole" (Edit for clarification: 'pole' here as in slalom gate, not the thing you hold in your hand). This single thought completely changed the way I skied the course, with a way stronger body position and much better engagement of the fronts of the skis. Mind-blowing!
In a session a few weeks ago another coach was clearly puzzled about what I was doing wrong. I was skiing pretty hard, but the skis were breaking away a bit more than they should have been. I'm pretty good at angulation, but he was worrying lots about what I was doing with my hips. Something was wrong but he couldn't put a finger on it - my upper body was dead quiet and the legs were doing their stuff....but something was still wrong. I suspect now that it was that a lot of my angulation was coming from my waist and not from the hips - and my pelvis was rotating back as the angulation increased.
An enhancement of the mental picture is the old joke/riposte of an overworked minion of "well why don't you shove a broom up my back bottom and I'll sweep the floor/slope at the same time". What this mental picture did was:
1) keep my pelvis tilted further forward through the turn
2) stop me breaking sideways at the waist, which then
3) put my legs/hips/lower back in a much stronger conformation - while still having the range of movement required to extend/flex through the turn, and also
4) stopped a degree of hip rotation into the turn, and
5) kept the upper body even quieter, allowing the legs to do their side-to-side stuff unencumbered by lower torso swinging about.
The downside was that I had to be even more conscious of keeping the inside leg active to avoid getting stuck on an inside edge turn.
Note that this reduced a sideways break at the waist. There are different schools of thought about whether breaking at the waist is a good, bad or indifferent thing. But those discussions nearly all concern themselves with the forwards break. This is quite different. Watch WC slalom skiers - they all have huge forward breaks at the waist, but their body from hips to shoulders hardly moves sideways at all.
All this from the basic visualisation of keeping my bum-crack inside the turn (and upright) rather than pushing into the turn from the outside hip. The "bottom" line on all this (since when push comes to shove analysis is all well and good, but it's the output that's the important thing) was that the skis gripped like crazy (even on the Dendix) and the turns were way more secure.
This of course was all in a slalom-ish context, where you're having to make turns where the terrain says and not in free-skiing mode. I tried it again in a free-ski session last night and it still sort of works, but is less noticeable - it's also harder to get the mental image going when you don't have a pole to go around. It's also probably a refinement, rather than of principal relevance when you're just getting into carved turns. And of no relevance at all when you're making big wide cruisy turns.
Still, if you're trying to get in some performance carving it may be worth giving the image a whirl and see whether you ski any differently.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 1-02-08 14:33; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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GrahamN, good high end drill... I am going to chip in on this thread as i suffer from the same flaw in my skiing... I dont want to get into a debate however with the likes of hurtle et al.. lurking..
A progression of your drill/thought is to do the same thing but have a set of poles wrapped around your waist. harold harb calls this the hip-o-meter. Hold one pole flat against your waistline/pelvis then loop the other poles strap around the basket of the front pole. The second pole then goes around your back parallel to the first pole. Finally hook the back poles strap around the front poles basket to make a "frame"
as you are skiing doing your crack inside the pole your coach can easily see if your pelvis is tilting/rotating inwards when angulating. I have the same inner hip collapse problem as well and getting feedback from the pole frame on video helped me. I just couldnt feel or see the mistake in my skiing and the added visual feedback of the frame helped.
warning this may not be a good idea on plastic as if could cause a mess if you go over. (ps.. hope your thumb is better)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, Like it. Might try it tonight. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds like a lot of fun, but what exactly does 'getting the crack of your @r$e over (or inside) the pole' mean. I can't visulise it, even using my own arsecrack. Does it men trying to get your ac forward and toward the slope?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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richmond, more that your hips go past the pole on the opposite side to your skis.
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GrahamN, Thank you for posting and with such a memorable title its sure to be remembered next time I'm on snow.
Perhaps we and the trolls can put the last few weeks behind us and get BZK back to a learning experience.
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richmond, Mosha Marc, Pole means (stubby) slalom pole.. not ski stick.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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boredsurfin wrote
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Perhaps we and the trolls can put the last few weeks behind us and get BZK back to a learning experience
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Here, here. That would be great. Here's hoping.
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ski, I knew that, honest. I thought he meant fulkl sized gates as well though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mosha Marc, It does. But it's less scary (and easier) to practise it with Stubbies.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mosha Marc, I thought ski stick as well 
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ski, Mosha Marc, thanks, that helps. I have no intention of slaloming, so I shall keep my crack to myself, on the slopes, at least.
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You know it makes sense.
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richmond, sorry, yes it's gate pole rather than ski-pole/sticks/batons I meant. As I said in my last couple of paras, this is essentially an exercise for refining slalom turns, but has use if you're trying to get tight carves in. There doesn't actually need to be a pole/stubby there, just imagine one, or use a stone/bit of grass/bump as a focus to turn around. As you turn around it let your skis take the path around the outside of it and the C-o-y-A that around the inside. You do need enough speed and time the leg extensio/flexion though to stop you falling over inside the turn.
skimottaret, yes I've done that a couple of times before, but it's not really shown up much. The large downside of getting it wrong on a dryslope has probably made me back off really pushing myself into the turn though, so that may have been the reason. Good idea to give them a go in combination though. I think the prime value of this image is that it keeps the pelvis angles forward. easiski has mentioned that a few times in the past (but usually in connection with the forward waist break), but I've never had a mechanism before that's actually stopped me tilting it back. Sticking your bum out the back is not bad (in the Snoworks view of the world anyway, one with which I agree), but the backwards tilt of the pelvis that all too easily comes with it probably is. I think this really ends up being a way of getting a good strong "Canadian Crouch".
In addition to the aeroplanes, we were actually doing this with the poles/batons held out in front of us to ensure a quiet upper body. It really makes a difference keeping that artificial horizon level and, even more significantly, at constant elevation - but that's probably another thread.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 1-02-08 14:43; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I always said skiing was ultimately about just having a good crack.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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vivski, On full length gates I've been thinkg about getting my eye line on the inside of pole. Think this would work even better. Hmmm is that the sound of someone hooking a tip ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ski, another good tip - tho I'd better be careful as hooking tips is already a bit of a speciality of mine - as many regulars on the dryslope circuit in the summer can testify 
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