 Poster: A snowHead
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plectrum, joking aside, you're right. It's not the biggest issue around but I'm very keen that my Club - the SCGB - operates entirely above board in relation to copyright. We've been publishing to skiers for 103 years, so this is not new territory. If we owe money to the owners of these photos it should be paid.
On a similar theme, what's the position regarding snowHeads News photos? Right-click on them and the properties come up as 'snowHeads.com'. They are not caption-credited to photographers/sources. Are they used with permission?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, It is not about money .... it is about respect! From what it seems Winterhighland is part of a ski community and so would quite happily share and share alike but would expect it to be a two way street.
In terms of Snowheads who knows but so far not seen or heard any complaints so I would guess they are doing things right!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| plectrum wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, It is not about money .... it is about respect! |
Fair point. Respect the Mountain. Respect the Copyright.
But it might also be about money (do you own the photos?)
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David Goldsmith They seem to be owned by Alan from Winterhighland and Winterhighland have stated in this thread that all they wanted was to be credited....
It seems to me that WHL are nice and SCGB are not!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Glenshee picture was taken by myself (Jamie) for Highland-Instinct, and the CairnGorm one by Alan for Winterhighland. Don't know who took the Nevis Range one.
I don't want any money, I just want due credit. Hardly a big ask.
I'm more than happy for my pictures of the good conditions to be spread, but it's only courteous to either ask permission first, or at the very least say who took the photos. For an organisation the size of the SCGB to not do this is absolutely ridiculous, and terrible practice. 
I sent them an email today, but I'm not expecting a response. I'll give them a few days, then contact them by phone.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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....and a silence fell on the posse of snowHeads SCGB supporter's 
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firstracks, that seems a perfectly reasonable stance and I hope you receive an appropriate response.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| beetle wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Quote: |
Remember leelau and spratley?
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Yes, and here's another fascinating ski magazine spat being played out on the www: http://main.travelwriters.com/bbs/listthread.asp?ID=4759
As for "borrowing" pics from the web... happens all the time. SCGB will argue that their content (eg snow reports - a revenue stream for them) are constantly being re-broadcast. It's simple; if you put something on the www and it gets used (borrowed/nicked/whatever) then your complaint is heavily diluted. It's the same as leaving some fivers on the pavement - the person picking them up isn't a thief, they are the recipient of a windfall. |
Actually - it is theft if accompanied by the necessary dishonest intent (theft by finding). |
Excellent, a police matter. A dawn raid on their Wimbleden den should sort it. |
How exciting. Perhaps they could video it for SkiTV.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, wow yes, great idea. Think of the negative publicity. An audience of errr.... 2 (or 30,000 if you're trying to sell ads).
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| roga wrote: |
| any sensible person (probably including the rest of the EU) would look at a map like that and laugh! |
That map isn't a wind-up. That is what the actual map looks like. Go investigate.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| firstracks, that seems a perfectly reasonable stance and I hope you receive an appropriate response. |
I'll second that. They are lucky that you are so mature about it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Yes, I'd noticed the rather odd lines at the ends of those stories. It's most unconventional to state 'care of' at the end of a story, or does it mean 'courtesy of'? If the stories are copyright of The Telegraph, Guardian etc. then the original publishers might grant reproduction with a clear copyright line to credit them, but this looks odd.
To quote the bulk of the stories with no hyperlinks to sources would seem useless to the sources, since there's no resultant revenue gain from hits.
Since we last discussed these matters, James Cove from the BBC has been appointed as SCGB New Media Content Editor and I gather his brief is specific to news production, ao I'll drop him an email to point out this thread.
James may therefore respond directly to this thread.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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That would be good David. I have no idea about the status of the links and it might be that the winter highland photos are a slip. I would have thought with their resort reps they could just forge their own independent news service which would be of value rather than getting involved in these periodic controversies?
Yes I do sympathise with Achilles who is weary of these kind of threads and it would be better for the SCGB to have an open or partially open forum or even to allow comments on news stories so these kind of things could be raised over there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| I would have thought with their resort reps they [the SCGB] could just forge their own independent news service which would be of value rather than getting involved in these periodic controversies? |
Funnily enough that's how it was in the old (very old) days. The Club had an entertaining journal called 'Ski Notes & Queries' - published until 1971. The reps contributed all sorts of nuggets to it. [The publication was, incidentally, inspired by a long-running journal called 'Notes & Queries', which is an invaluable historical resource. It was based on readers' letters prompting other readers' letters. I've found stuff about the Lewes Avalanche in issues from the 1920s etc.]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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roga, I am just looking forward to meeting a hooray henry as a ski club rep one day. Slightly lazy and offensive stereotyping I think, 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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roga, you don't seem to have tried very hard to get hold of your elusive 'Hooray Henry' - the reps' names for each resort, together with their mobile phone numbers (and the landline for their social hour contact) are published here. Mind you, I do note that Mammoth does not feature, this season anyway.
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This is a really cowardly thread to just have a pop at the SCGB. Live and let live. This is the Modern world.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Come-on how would you feel if you wrote a piece on boot-fitting and 1 day later it was on the SCGB site with no credit to you for your work.
There is no reason whatsoever for their actions they are deplorable. The SCGB is not a charity based site, it is a fully fledged commercial business. As such it should act in a proper and professional manner which includes gaining permission and possibly paying for the content which makes it successful and as such profitable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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plectrum, Happens all the time, i read my quotes all over the place. Sometimes i make stuff up, just to see who swallows the bait. You know who you are. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| plectrum wrote: |
| ........... 'Well it is kinda about Scotland having good conditions but poor infrastructure, so you end up not to sure if it is worth considering Scotland' |
Ah So that's what this thread is about.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7180000/newsid_7183300/7183367.stm?
This is a recent report from the BBC website and is extremely positive although it is reporting on the week before that of which the SCGB report is made about.
Please remember that any European resort during a popular week will have big queues.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 20-01-08 13:10; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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roga, read my first post on this thread. I think the SCGB did wrong here and should give clear credits and link to the sites from which news and photos have been taken. I have said the same before, and let the club know my opinion.
My post to you isn't about knee jerk defense. It is about you characterising a whole bunch of people of different backgrounds with a silly pejorative remark. SZK is right. Lets move beyond that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
| plectrum wrote: |
| ........... 'Well it is kinda about Scotland having good conditions but poor infrastructure, so you end up not to sure if it is worth considering Scotland' |
Ah So that's what this thread is about. |
Sorry I'm at a loss to understand what your point it is?
The topic of this thread is quite clear:
Images were used without permission hence a possible breach of copyright.
My view on whether the entire article on SCGB is also misleading was just based on contradictory primary reports on the access and the delays or otherwise on reaching the slopes.
If you look here http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,85167,85210,quote=1 we see direct contradictions.
It is the responsability of the editor to make sure that all articles conform to copyright and are as truthful and representative of the facts as possible. TBH only good should come from this thread as David Goldsmith has notified James Cove to these views and I am sure if he is a competant and good Editor then these fair views will be taken on board and improvements in the SCGB reporting will be made.
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Poster: A snowHead
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roga, As i accept that people will use my input and buy skis at Conrad. As i say, "This is the Modern world." Do what you can to protect yourselves, but there is no escape from it. I'm not saying that it right, simply that's the way it is. People will do what they see fit, i can't/you can't stop them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| roga, As i accept that people will use my input and buy skis at Conrad. |
Skis ... Skis ...
I thought you were a boot specialist Also Conrad rock and roll SZK, no doubt if I was needing boots and passing through Chamonix from reputation a visit to Footworks would always be in order, but for Skis the guys at Conrad are perfectly able themselves to make superb recommendations on skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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plectrum, Different ball game my man, maybe one we'll talk about skis. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| roga, As i accept that people will use my input and buy skis at Conrad. As i say, "This is the Modern world." Do what you can to protect yourselves, but there is no escape from it. I'm not saying that it right, simply that's the way it is. People will do what they see fit, i can't/you can't stop them. |
Fair point and I agree that it will happen.
People can be stopped from doing it but rather like libel actions it's only the very big boys who have the time and resources to do it. For example 'borrow' something from a News International website and they'll have their corporate lawyers straight onto you as soon as they know about it - I've seen this happen for very minor infringements.
For the rest of us of course it's different but no more legal, I'd suggest the SCGB should be building relationships with other websites rather than 'nicking' stuff off them, then retrospectively apologising and crediting if a stink is raised, as seems to be the pattern. This would be the responsible and fair thing to do and would enhance rather than damage their reputation in what is still a fairly small community in the UK.
At the end of the day all this does is further damage the reputation of the SCGB, probably putting people off joining them as a result, and poison any potential mutually beneficial relationship that may be built up with popular websites like Winterhighland and Highland Instinct. I'd suggest such a situation is hardly in the interests of the SCGB and it's a shame they don't seem to recognise this.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Well I am going to try and fit a long weekend at either Verbier of Chamonix soon so if I am at the Vagabond I wil come down to Footworks and say hi.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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plectrum, We should go skiing, Boots vs Instruction.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Last one to the bottom buys the beers! Most falls of the day buys the ciggies!
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plectrum, You best make use of the 'Duty Free' then. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I've been taught that you don't fall much if you use something called a 'SnowPlough'
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| plectrum wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER, Well I am going to try and fit a long weekend at either Verbier of Chamonix soon so if I am at the Vagabond I wil come down to Footworks and say hi. |
Maybe help yourself to the contents of the till while SZK is yacking to clients as he seems ok with that kind of thing these days, or perhaps just use his ski servicing gear for the skis you bought at Conrad.
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FAQ
