Skiing Myth #3 = 50:50 equal weighting on modern skis

A snowHead

As usual, the subject and topic goes way deep, but for now:

The key phrase is "Dominant Outside Ski".

Once you can balance well on the outside ski, everything else will follow (Marc Girardelli).

When the snow is hard, and you want to extract maximum grip from your skis, you need to be balanced on your outside ski. The more you use your inside ski, the less the available grip on your outside ski. Being balanced on your outside ski will maximise the penetrating force relative to the slipping force.

All the time?

Just about. Unless the snow is very soft, you will almost always make a better turn of you have a dominant outside ski. Even in soft snow, a dominant outside foot usually works well. Deep bottomless powder is just about the only situation where a more even weighting may be desirable.

You will need a dominant outside ski in the steeps. For sure.

Interestingly, if you incline (lean into the hill), you will almost certainly transfer the way you stand on your skis, and lessen the dominance of the outside ski. Which is why too much inclination is not good, and you must start to angulate. This will help move the Centre of Mass into the inside of the turn, but help maintain the penetrating force on the outside ski.

Width of stance will also play a part. Novice skiers ski with an ultra wide stance because their lateral balance is uncertain. As you get better, and the speed and forces build up, if you try and move your Centre of Mass to the inside of the turn, but still have a wide stance, chances are that you will inadvertantly load up the inside ski, and you will lose performance from your outside ski. It will take practice to ski, with your skis the appropriate width apart, and not load up the inside ski too much (think short leg, long leg).

Always strive to be balanced on your outside ski. How can you tell if you are? If you're skiing on the pisted runs, you should be able to pick up your inside ski at will. If you're "falling" back onto it, or having to put it down again to recover your balance, chances are that you're not well balanced on your outside ski.

50:50? Yes. Momentarily, normally in the transition.

Many people confuse the phrase "modern skiing is about two footed skiing" with having even "weight" on both skis.

Oh. And beware those that try and define a ratio (eg; 80:20, 70:30 etc.). How can you assign a specific number on a ratio that is constantly changing depending on: turn phase, turn type, speed, radius, snow condition etc.etc.?There is no "basic ratio"!! Just a dominant outside ski.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

veeeight, Sadly it's not a myth - there are (apparently) loads of instructors out there telling peeps to do it! Shock

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I know. That's why I want to set the record straight!!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

...and the 100:0 isn't right either, in my opinion.

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Darky

After all it is free

veeeight, so that explains why when going fast, putting extra pressure/force down the outside ski makes the turn more assured/stable.

i agree Dominate the outer, but dont forget you have an inner. a lot of intermediates end up leg locking when trying to dominate the outer and fall into the hill on their weaker side.

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It's interesting reading stuff like this, veeeight - keep 'em coming.

I did some exercises last season where I focused on putting as much weight through the turn on the 'wrong' ski. I found it pretty helpful in getting my passive leg more involved (particularly with flexing the ankle) - up to that point I'd focused on using it to steer but I wasn't as 2-footed as I'd have liked. The instructor pointed out that I didn't need to think too much about the 'dominant outside ski' because I'd spent years skiing like that and, to an extent, it would mostly retain the power/balance/thingymajig around the turn anyway. That leg was already trained.

Apologies if that's a bit garbled - obviously I'm not an instructor Smile

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veeeight, wonderful. Very Happy

Only query

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Veeeight,

I see what you mean with the video but is the fact that he is weighting the inside ski more than necessary placing any limitations on his skiing. Isn't the technique that he's using a reasonable CHOICE given the speed, radius and snowconditions? I think it can be fun to play around with more equal weighting in conditions like that. If I was on hard snow or trying to bend the ski very tight I'd be aiming for close to 100% on the outside ski.

J

You know it makes sense.

by the way, should have said that this is a good myth to puncture - as easiski says many instructors / articles talk about equal weighting as if its something to aim for

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

veeeight, I think I see what you mean - seems to me the chap is sticking his bum into the mountain instead of standing on the outside ski? (Apologies for the idiosyncratic terminology)

A snowHead

So what is the % split in powder skiing? Is the outside ski still dominant?

A snowHead

"On soft snow, the best technique is directly derived from monoskiing. On hard snow, the modern skis allow us to follow monoski technique up to about 50 %."

If we do not agree on this, then the 50-50 is really a myth. If we do, hey, bring those planks back! I remember that getting some air with them was way cool!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I can't imagine a situation where the outside ski is NOT dominant, even on flatter sections. I can't see how control can be maintained without this domination. Can someone give me an example of where this might not be the case?

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zammo,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

T Bar, are they like Christies but German/Greek/Scottish in descent?

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zammo,
Probably, Actually I think they were a ski ballet move where you turned on your inside ski holding your outside one in the air leg parallel to the ground, I am not certain though,only seen them in books.

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Also White Pass turns - start the turn on your inside ski, switch to the outside one as you get into the fall line.

Regarding this topic, I tend to shy away from anyone (no matter what their qualifications) who will say you should never do something, or you should always do something else.

I don't think either 100:0 or 50:50 is "the best", but the ability to ski either, or anywhere in-between - that adds to your ability. Being fixed in an "everything on the outside" or "50:50" is limiting, in my opinion.

After all it is free

So, v8, no such thing as feathering the flex to modulate turn radius?

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veeeight, looking at that video clip, I would feel that his left turns are actually less certain and look less stable (to me) than his right turns which look more dynamic and confident.
I think everybody has their preferred turn-direction and left isn't his (IMHO).

This seems to be the opposite of what you are saying - BTW, when I say right I mean the turn which from the view of the camera below is on the right side of the slope and in which the skier makes a clockwise turn when viewed from above.

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I think his turns to his left are stronger than his turns to his right. (Left and Right are from the skiers perspective).

Is that what you meant?

And yes, everyone has a stronger/weaker side.

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I think he'd look a whole bunch better if he was wearing pants that weren't black.

(Am I on the wrong thread here?)

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Nick L, you see confidence; I see a bit of rush on turn entry so that he's high on the RH edges almost immediately. I thought it was terrain influenced, whaddoIknow.

As to what eng_ch mentions, is this guy CSIA?

A snowHead

Well I'm very glad to see that this thread isn't going the way of the last thread on this subject. Of course as you become a better skier you will improve your ability to change the amount of weight and pressure on either ski according to the terrain, snow conditions and your mood. At the end of the day, as already stated the outside ski still needs to be dominant (if that's the phrase you like). I am quite alarmed at the number of peeps recently who've had lessons with a variety of nationalities and have apparently been told to keep 50-50 in all conditions - wouldn't have worked very well at the mondial! Very Happy

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

veeeight, whats your take on the skier in the videos foot width. He seems to start and finish the feet together and go to a wider stance through the turn, I've been critisised for skiing like this in the past.

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GrahamN, hmmm, in run 1. Mr Smith claims to be skiing v smoothly and run 2. claims otherwise. What's he was doing is the old instructor trick of spoofing you into doing what you should be doing. So he demonstrates case a, while claiming it is case b, but making it look like case a all along.

I believe that MI6 and the KGB had this down to a fine art in the 60's ("The Spy who came in from the Cold", f'rinstance).

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

rich, Well spotted.

That is one of the visual clues that he is over his inside ski a little too much (amongst other things). In the transition, he is at neutral. Shortly after, he looks very well balanced on his outside ski. As he progresses through the turn however, his skis widen laterally (the inside ski, because it has enough edge and pressure against it, takes it's own, shorter path, therefore the lateral distance between outside ski and inside ski widens). It is only because of his skill he can steer both skis to maintain them in parallel and not fall to the inside.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

alan empty, I'm not deliberitely ignoring you, but your very good and valid questions are at the point where they should really be talked through and demonstrated on a slope!

The quick and dirty answer is that your inside ski should be involved by "hooking up" enough to steer it to match the outside ski, but by "hook up" I don't necessarily mean put your "weight" on it........

If easiski or ssh or anyone else wants to have a go at answering this one feel free as my brain is now fried as I've just written and posted #4.

veeeight, .

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His right arm pole plants are quite good, the pole basket is swinging at roughly the same rate as his outside foot (ski), and he's keeping the pole swing assertively forward, putting him in a good angulated position to balance on his outside ski.

His left arm pole plants are poor, they are late and sometimes non existent. More of a flick and jab at the last moment, not fluid and smooth. His lack of assertive pole swing (reaching forward and down) puts him in a slightly banked (inclined) position throughout the turn, and thus he is not effectively balanced as well as he could be on his outside ski.

Regarding counter, I would say that he is appropriately countered for what he is doing. He's most definitely not square to the skis in either the short radius nor medium radius. His hip is "open" to the outside of the turn, and facing his line of momentum.

Remember, this is good strong skiing we are looking at here, we are just talking about tweaking.

Help!!

Skiing Myth #3 = 50:50 equal weighting on modern skis

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