 Poster: A snowHead
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Ski & Board has a booklet on The Italian Dolomites. I nearly chucked it because it looked like an advertising supplement. Glad I didn't - it covers an area I have never skied very well. In particular it gives rather an attractive picture of the Val Mezdi - though it describes the entrance as awe-inspiring. The article describes the run as sufficiently difficult to be treated seriously, but not so difficult as to be beyond a strong intermediate. It recommends taking along an instructor or guide.
Any snowhead skied it? It looks one I mght try.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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achilles,
Last saw it in '86 when I thought it a really scary idea... what I can remember of it, I think it would be a routine job now. Funny how you remember things like this and how perception changes
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, the article talks about the run being challenging psychologically -narrow entrance, and taking the initial descent one turn at a time. The skier feels tiny against a huge landscape. Small stones fall continuously down the rock face. So maybe your scary memory is accurate.
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achilles, I think the publicists promote this idea. You can see it from below..I can't quite remember the geography.. and it looks very steep through a rock band but opens out. I'm not sure how far up into it you can see tho'.
I think its the type of gully that a lot of places would have if only you knew where to look. Do you fancy Le Grave again?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, maybe. I know there is a party building up for that. However, I am not sure I will be fit enough for a week of tough skiing. And whilst I would be OK for much of La Grave, Having done the Grand Couloir once (quite a long time ago) and frightened myself f******s, I am not anxious to go down there again!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles, We did it last year but did a slightly different route to get into it than the standard one.
Getting out of theSas Pordoi cable car everyone skis ahead almost flat for about 300m and then awkwardly down a few yards. Then the steep Piste way down goes right or there is an off piste way down left, or you can step up a short way ahead and then do a traverse straight ahead almost flat, Then skis off and climb gently for a while (perhaps 60 or 70m vertical?), then skis-on and traverse left to a slight saddle. That's where the valley starts.
If you look at Cedric's account of our holiday on http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50606&highlight=Dolomites and look at his 10th photo (of a very steep couloir) - the slight saddle at the top is what you go over (you would have traversed from the right). The photo is taken from just before the divide of the ways I described and looks along the left-turn valley (off-piste) alternative. (I hope you are following this!).
( if you turn back at the coll, instead, you can do our steep couloir. The next photo of us skiing it looks back up the other way to the divide of the ways on the skyline.)
The next day day we started the same way but then continued the climb another 160m vertical to get to the obvious peak (Piz Boe). From there we went along a ridge, then down right a bit and a brief climb up again to enter a longer and steeper couloir into the Val Mesdi than the normal entry (see Cedric's photo 15 - those dots at the bottom are people!). Looking back, though, the normal way you would do ( it joins in from the bottom-left of the photo) looked fairly steep (though I didn't really give it much attention).
The Valley, though it cuts right accross the middle of the Sella Ronda like a diameter and is sometimes called the Italian Vallee Blanche (though it is not as far in miles and is not a glacier), is a much more demanding ski than the Vallee Blanche. You come out at Colfosco.
You need a guide for sure, since it can suffer from avalanches. But it is spectacular and worth doing
PS I don't remember a "Grand Couloir" at La Grave. Where is it?)
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 17-09-06 16:38; edited 5 times in total
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snowball,
Good link, looks like a great litlle tour, excellent..!!
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snowball, great link, thank you. According to a mate who was with me, and has skied La Grave recently, what we called the Grand Couloir is known as Trefide. It was a very sobering place for me. Can't imagine I would want to go back.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ah yes, the Trefide couloirs are extremely steep. I think there are 3 and the other two you generally need to be roped into. If I've got the right ones in mind I've only done one of them once, as far as I can remember (presumably the same one you did). The SCGB gold standard holidays leave them out as too dangerous.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 17-09-06 16:09; edited 1 time in total
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snowball, it was way beyond my ability then. I remember thinking I could be a paraplegic or dead if it went wrong - and with my ability at the time, it could well have. Wouldn't be happy to do it now. Rocky, narrow-ish, and extremely steep, with a sharp change of direction part way down. I overcame my fear, and some how survived to kick and the odd stem turn (stepping out into the turn) my way down. I was a very luck bear to come out in one piece. Normally when I have gone down a steep run, I am proud to have done it. This time it was just relief - I knew I should not have been there. At the bottom, a member of another party had broken his leg, and was waiting rescue.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think it is the couloir in which the woman of the journalist couple who skied every day for a year was killed. She was knocked over by another skier who fell, and hit her head on the rock wall at that bend.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 17-09-06 21:04; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowball, I believe that was Lucy Dicker, and she was with Arnie Wilson (present Ski and Board ed) for the "year skiing" . A very sad tale indeed. (If my memory is wrong someone please correct and we'll edit accordingly). 
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A few thoughts from the survivor of the "journalist couple" involved in this. In fact the couloir involved was not that severe, but the conditions were. As often happens, a tamish coulour can become a death trap in rutted, icy conditions, and a tough couloir can be wonderful if there is lashings of snow. The reason the couloir (one of a number which seem to be jointly knowns as Trifides)was so dangerous on the day of the accident (April 6, 1995) was that we had been skiing all day in glorious powder and suddenly found ourself out of the sun in a couloir with frozen ruts and a dog-leg. All it takes is a slip before the dog-leg and you can slither straight into the rocks. The Couloiur Mezdi is not that difficult once you're in. I think Snowball might be a little more cautious about saying it is "much more demanding ski than the Vallee Blanche". I am not trying to be a clever clogs here, but he must know that there are several routes down the Vallee Blanche, and the Val Mezdi main route is nowhere near as challenging -IMHO - as the Vraie Vallee Blanche or the Envers du Plan. However although I have done both those versions of the Vallee Blanche, I have only done the routine descent of the Val Mezdi and there are obviously more difficult variants - just as there are difficult variants of the Vallee Blanche. (I remember on one occasion being lowered down an ice wall on a rope). So if you have only tried the routine version of one, but more difficult versions of the other - which ever way round! - you can hardly compare them!
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sun 17-09-06 19:37; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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jacksonhole, nice to see you back again!.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yoda, No that all sounds right 
The story of Ski for a Year is in the book Tears in the Snow by Arnie Wilson (1996), a very good read (I know I've got it and have read it) and althought you know at some point in the book this terrible accident was going to happen it did sounds as thought they had a lot of fun and laughs as well.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I didn't mean to pop back but thanks for the delightful welcome. I should really be working on the next issue of the magazine but a good friend tipped me off about this Val Mezdi discussion and I couldn't help taking a look. It feels nice to be back, but I should REALLY plough on with the mag now! I may be gone for some time - till the next brief lull between magazines.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jacksonhole, now get back to work !!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jacksonhole, thanks for coming to visit us. I hope you weren't offended by my rather slap-dash reference to your tragedy.
Yes, it isn't difficult but I was comparing it to the Standard Vallee Blanche. I didn't want people to think having managed the one they could necessarily ski the other, just because it is called the Italian Vallee Blanche.
I don't imagine I've skied all the versions of the VB, but I have certainly skied all the well known ones. If you are a good skier there is not much point in doing the standard version, even once, IMHO.
As for La Grave the SCGB has got very cautious of recent years, which is why I don't go on their holidays much now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowball, Not at all put out, thanks. It's a while ago now, and of course it still haunts me on a daily basis, but it will be my constant companion for ever so I'm used to living in its shadow after 11 years. Naturally the anniversary is always painful. I'm glad you can see my point about all these different versions - different Val Mezdis, different Couloir Trifides, different Vallee Blanches. One has to be a little careful - or at least I feel I do - of not comparing like with like. I just wanted to re-assure young Achilles (it's OK, he's used to my patronising him!) that he should have no problem skiing the "tourist" route down the Val Mezdi. Some of those other routes (in your earlier post) look pretty radical!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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jacksonhole, thanks - I shall definitely get my regular skiing buddy to look at the supplement - and ask him to read this thread - in the hope that we agree to give this a go.
FWIW, I skied the couloir in La Grave, about a week before your companion's accident. The snow surface then was well skied and very firm. But when I was here it was not icy, in that it would take an edge without slipping. Without your skill and experience, even in those conditions, it was almost too much for me.
On a less serious note - watch who are you are calling young!!!
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| Quote: |
I'm reviewing the situation. Maybe I better think it out again!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, as Oscar Wilde said " After 25 we are all the same age", but it is one of the perks of being older to patronise young people (ie, those under 40 or 45 perhaps  ) while knowing from experience that actually age doesn't make us any wiser (just more cautious).
jacksonhole, yes, perhaps I should have been more specific. I am relieved I didn't upset you, but of course it will always be part of the "weather" of your life - I can see that (though not experience it comparably).
Some years ago I had a fall in Alagna which, if I hadn't previously skied with Giles Green would have been fatal. But because I got off scot free (where does that expression come from?) it doesn't prey on my mind but remains part of my formative education (and a good anecdote).
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 18-09-06 10:55; edited 4 times in total
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snowball, Gosh. Quite a story.
I hope I never find myself on a run like that. OTOH,
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| while some of us peered down again or had a nervous pee. Would it be better to let others go first or go early and get it over ? |
I know that feeling. 
I can vouch that self-arrest works, too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowball, thanks. It never upsets me and in a strange way talking about it helps keep Lucy alive in my thoughts. I have noticed with others who have lost their other halves that talking about them becomes quite important, so it's a kind of double-edged sword. The details of the accident are still very much etched in my mind, but I can sublimate them while at the same time remembering the good and the crazy moments of the trip. One of the sadder aspects I suppose is that the accident happened very soon after we had successfully skied for 365 consecutive days, and so the whole adventure, with all its wonderful experiences and crazy moments, and all the companionship (and all the rows!) were quickly overshadowed by what happened in La Grave. It was a real case of going from the heights of human experience to the depths. So even 11 years on I can't really enjoy the memories without a little sadness inevitably flooding in. Fundementally I have happy memories of the trip, which is good because it was by far the biggest adventure of my life, but they are inevitably tinged with sadness. I'm sure you understand.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes, I do understand. And for quite other reasons I know that actually a part of you doesn't want to get over the loss of someone, even if you could, because forgetting that emotion would be like allowing the other person to die some more, and rejecting part of what defines you. Talking acknowledges it, it is there anyway.
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Going even further off topic it seems to me that there is a link to my fascination with archaeology and history. It is like a reassurance that the past doesn't die completely, and that, in consequence, we don't.
And now...back to skiing!!
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You know it makes sense.
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"actually a part of you doesn't want to get over the loss of someone, even if you could, because forgetting that emotion would be like allowing the other person to die some more, and rejecting part of what defines you" - brilliantly put,snowball, I wish I had said that. I will use it when I am trying to comfort anyone who has lost a partner. I have an old friend who is dying and I know that would comfort his wife. And now, as you say, back to skiing!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks guys for an interesting and sobering thread.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry if it got a bit morbid. I know this is supposed to be a cheerful, chatty site!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is room for a bit of most things here. 
PS see my PM
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 18-09-06 22:58; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jacksonhole wrote: |
| Sorry if it got a bit morbid. I know this is supposed to be a cheerful, chatty site! |
I wouldn't apologise - its a timely reminder that sometimes our favourite sport can be more serious than we imagine.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jacksonhole wrote: |
| I know this is supposed to be a cheerful, chatty site! |
I don't know who told you that. They were obviously having a laugh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, having "reviewed the situation", and taken into account the odd email, I don't think the Val Mezdi is for me. I can do chicken.  Glad I started this thread though - it's been quite an eye-opener.
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FAQ
